Can't do my money-saving trick due to train strike?

[Haywain]

Conversely, such a ticket may be queried with the relevant Pricing Manager (which is presumably why the OP hasn't mentioned tje stations involved) and the apparent loophole closed.

That's a risk that the OP has to accept though. Whether it is worth the risk in the long run is another mattter.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Are Pricing Managers really so unaware of the validities of the fares they price that they have no knowledge of such "loopholes" unless and until they are queried by a ticket office?

 

[LowLevel]

Are Pricing Managers really so unaware of the validities of the fares they price that they have no knowledge of such "loopholes" unless and until they are queried by a ticket office?

In general terms no, but things slip through - that's why they're loopholes - there's a lot of fares!

For years we had one where a ticket from Matlock Bath to Nottingham was about 4 quid more expensive than one to Carlton which was a station further along, that one was closed some time back.

There are others still though.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are Pricing Managers really so unaware of the validities of the fares they price that they have no knowledge of such "loopholes" unless and until they are queried by a ticket office?

The main source of loopholes tends to be where TOC A prices A to B and TOC B prices A to C via B, with both having different pricing policies.

Project Oval is also creating a whole shedload of new anomalies; and fares regulation can also cause them where a given ticket from A to B is regulated but the same ticket to stations either side isn't.

Human error also plays a part, but that only tends to get noticed quickly where it affects a popular flow. On less frequently used ones it might be several years before it's picked up.

 

[Spaceship323]

Isn’t there an issue with a ticket office selling a ticket to a station that is essentially “closed”, because they would be entering into a contract to get the passenger to that station which the passenger could subsequently insist on being carried to by alternative means at cost to the railway? I don’t work for the railway, but if I was a ticket office employee I’d be very reluctant to sell such a ticket - even if the passenger admitted they wanted to stop short.

See post #16 by @Haywain

 

[Bletchleyite]

Project Oval is also creating a whole shedload of new anomalies

That it is - two I use often now! You'd have thought they'd have run a spreadsheet calculation against each route to see if A-B and B-C added up to at least A-C or not.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Human error also plays a part, but that only tends to get noticed quickly where it affects a popular flow. On less frequently used ones it might be several years before it's picked up.

What appears to be a human error in the routeing data allows certain fares to undercut some very popular flows to a significant degree of saving. I have no idea to what extent it's actually being exploited but that single data record error has existed for more than 25 years.

If you wanted to find that single data record error, it would not be difficult at all.

 

[Haywain]

Are Pricing Managers really so unaware of the validities of the fares they price that they have no knowledge of such "loopholes" unless and until they are queried by a ticket office?

Sometime anomalies exist because the fares are set by different TOCs, so Pricing Managers may not find them so easy to close. It was always the case that they were not allowed, by law, to communicate with each other (across companies) because that would breach competition law - whether that has changed with the current industry set-up I don't know.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Sometime anomalies exist because the fares are set by different TOCs, so Pricing Managers may not find them so easy to close. It was always the case that they were not allowed, by law, to communicate with each other (across companies) because that would breach competition law - whether that has changed with the current industry set-up I don't know.

Whilst I get the intention of the law, it's a bit odd really. We have the same issue with bus fares. But anyone can just ring up and ask the fare between two stops, so it's all a bit pointless! It was normally where more than one operator ran over a common section of route and you all wanted to charge the same fare.

For the OP though, if you're happy with the idea, i'd ask for A to C ticket. If clerk says there's no trains to C, say you have your bike, but you're claiming the cost back and need a ticket from A to C as they won't reimburse A to B. Hopefully they'd sell you the ticket as there's a valid reason and you're not giving the game away.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Sometime anomalies exist because the fares are set by different TOCs, so Pricing Managers may not find them so easy to close. It was always the case that they were not allowed, by law, to communicate with each other (across companies) because that would breach competition law - whether that has changed with the current industry set-up I don't know.

I don't think anything's changed on that front, judging by the wildly different pricing for journeys of similar distances as part of Project Oval despite it being a multi-TOC project.

 

[MrJeeves]

Human error also plays a part, but that only tends to get noticed quickly where it affects a popular flow. On less frequently used ones it might be several years before it's picked up.

Such as when a certain TOC prices 1st advances at 10% of their intended price

 

[Krokodil]

Are Pricing Managers really so unaware of the validities of the fares they price that they have no knowledge of such "loopholes" unless and until they are queried by a ticket office?

The number of individual fares in the system is vast so yes, often it takes a query from a conductor or booking office clerk to bring it to their attention. That doesn't always mean that it will go against the passenger - sometimes the solution is to cut the A-B fare so that it is equal to or less than the A-C fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The number of individual fares in the system is vast so yes, often it takes a query from a conductor or booking office clerk to bring it to their attention. That doesn't always mean that it will go against the passenger - sometimes the solution is to cut the A-B fare so that it is equal to or less than the A-C fare.

To be fair LM (as it was) did actually cut Bletchley and Leighton-Euston so they were below the MKC "LM Only" fare. So yes it does sometimes happen. Though the anomalies are back until MKC joins Oval.

 

[sheff1]

It really isn't complex. Your ticket is valid to travel via and to stop short at B. I'd expect guards and ticket inspectors to advise any passenger with a ticket to C that there were no further trains running beyond B that day, but not demand explanations about if and how the passenger intends to get to C. If informed of the situation just say, "Thanks, I'm getting off this train at B". If they are not satisfied with that, hard luck.

I used to regulalrly use such a ticket (unfortuntely no longer vaild, as the saving was considerable) with never any intention to travel to C. When checked on a train after the last connection from Sheffield to C had long gone I was often asked whether I knew/how was I getting to C and so on - I always felt this was them being concerned that I might become stranded as a simple "I'm staying overnight at Sheffield"* was always sufficient.

* This, of course, was completely true as Sheffield is my home.

 

[Falcon1200]

Presumably though the booking office staff at A know perfectly well that a ticket to C via B can be cheaper than one just to B, unless A to C via B is an incredibly rare journey?

 

[Krokodil]

Presumably though the booking office staff at A know perfectly well that a ticket to C via B can be cheaper than one just to B, unless A to C via B is an incredibly rare journey?

In quite a few cases the booking office staff will prompt passengers when a cheaper option is available such as the A-C situation described above, or when a CDR is cheaper than a single ticket. They're probably not supposed to (remember LNER prohibiting its staff from pointing out that sensible fares are available to Haymarket).

 

[_toommm_]

I used to regulalrly use such a ticket (unfortuntely no longer vaild, as the saving was considerable) with never any intention to travel to C. When checked on a train after the last connection from Sheffield to C had long gone I was often asked whether I knew/how was I getting to C and so on - I always felt this was them being concerned that I might become stranded as a simple "I'm staying overnight at Sheffield"* was always sufficient.

* This, of course, was completely true as Sheffield is my home.

I used to regularly use Sheffield to Denby Dale tickets to commute Manchester to Sheffield as thetrainline thought they were valid that way. It was only ruined after one guard on TPE said something along the lines of 'we aren't thetrainline' and ' it doesn't matter what your itinerary says'

 

[Haywain]

They're probably not supposed to (remember LNER prohibiting its staff from pointing out that sensible fares are available to Haymarket).

They are not supposed to offer a ticket for a different journey (Haymarket vice Edinburgh), but should offer the cheapest ticket for the journey requested (off peak day return cheaper than single). This applies to ticket offices operated by all train companies.

 

[infobleep]

The main source of loopholes tends to be where TOC A prices A to B and TOC B prices A to C via B, with both having different pricing policies.

Project Oval is also creating a whole shedload of new anomalies; and fares regulation can also cause them where a given ticket from A to B is regulated but the same ticket to stations either side isn't.

Human error also plays a part, but that only tends to get noticed quickly where it affects a popular flow. On less frequently used ones it might be several years before it's picked up.

Then there is where tickets are more popular stations get increased at a higher percentage rate than less popular stations.

Or where the 3 miles within the shortest route rule helps you go on a perticular route that might be priced by another TOC.

In other case it can be due to TOCs introducing cheaper types of tickets from some stations but not others. As long as you only need to travel during times when the more restricted ticket is valid, no issues.

 

[Wolfie]

Conversely, such a ticket may be queried with the relevant Pricing Manager (which is presumably why the OP hasn't mentioned tje stations involved) and the apparent loophole closed.

Perhaps harder when different TOCs are involved in the ticket pricing...