car insurance prices

[mikeb42]

@bspahh makes a good and interesting point above.

It makes me wonder if there is a sweetspot and where it is. It's not impossible that buying and insuring just the right car for just the right mileage with no tracker and then just parking it up somewhere really safe where nobody can crash into it or nick it for a first year might be a cost-optimum strategy in the long run.

That may be too ludicrous, but anything seems possible. Presumably it's not a breach of car insurance Ts & Cs to hardly drive the thing...

@Bletchleyite - you have a point that something seems to have led to a diminution in properly swivel-eyed-loon driving. Fuel prices are surely part of it, but I speculate there's an element of post-pandemic lethargy which seems pervasive and might be a good thing in this context, but more broadly, er... Seemingly as part of it, lane discipline has reached a new nadir en masse, especially on 4 lane stretches of managed motorway. "Just waft along at whatever lethargic speed you choose while sitting indefinitely in lanes 3 and 4 with 1 and 2 largely empty" certainly isn't what the highway code says.

If you do hanker for the nostalgic sense of white knuckle urgency with psychopathic overtones though, it's still out there. I recommend the M4 west from London to Bristol on a Friday afternoon. Just like old times.

To get back to a semblance of the thread topic:

It's worth considering that car (in particular) insurance pricing is no longer solely worked out by human actuaries. You can bet your annual premium on at least automated direct statistical analysis but now more likely machine learning/AI/whatever you want to call it being widely involved. If there's statistical correlation to be found, it's being found even where there may be no human-discernible explanation for linkages. This will be making specific outcomes of the process more arcane than ever to everyone - even the actuaries that oversee it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It makes me wonder if there is a sweetspot and where it is. It's not impossible that buying and insuring just the right car for just the right mileage with no tracker and then just parking it up somewhere really safe where nobody can crash into it or nick it for a year might be a cost-optimum strategy in the long run.

While I never actually did it, I did in the past consider effectively giving up driving for a bit while still building up my no-claims to 5 years, and was, if I had, giving serious thought to buying a very cheap old banger with a very small engine (basically anything in insurance group 1), sticking it in the garage and insuring it third party only (not even fire/theft*) on the lowest mileage possible, and occasionally running it round the block so the contract wasn't of bad faith (i.e. the car did work and could be driven, so was genuinely being insured). For some it will make sense to do that.

That may be too ludicrous, but anything seems possible. Presumably it's not a breach of car insurance Ts & Cs to hardly drive the thing...

A not uncommon one is putting your mother on your policy because she might want to drive it once in a while. It'll almost certainly reduce a young male's premium a bit on the basis that a lower risk driver will sometimes drive it. If you want it to be 100% good-faith, lend it to her a couple of times a year.

I'm actually surprised, thinking on, that most insurers don't ask for a mileage estimate per driver so this could be calculated properly. I'd imagine some do, though.

This is totally unlike having your mother as main driver and you as named driver when it's your car. That's fraud, they've seen it before and they will find you out and cancel the policy, which will cause you all manner of issues getting another policy in future.

If you do hanker for the nostalgic sense of white knuckle urgency with psychopathic overtones though, it's still out there. I recommend the M4 west from London to Bristol on a Friday afternoon. Just like old times.

The M40 is the other place, because there are lots of expensive premium cars, rich people who don't care about the fuel price and no cameras.

 

[skyhigh]

It's just a case of being honest, really. While some insurers don't seem to behave that way (unsurprising when people compare solely on price), insurance is a contract of good faith.

Absolutely. I've never had someone from my insurance company turn up and have a look at the mileage on my car, and given the car is less than 3 years old so never had an MOT I'm not sure how they'd prove how much I'd actually done in a policy term. But I still declare the mileage I actually do. Anything else is foolish.

It makes me wonder if there is a sweetspot and where it is.

Insurance is one of those odd things. I went from a 15 year old Corsa to a 2 year old Mini. You'd assume the insurance would go up, but in reality I went down. Exactly the same factors, just a different car. I think the honest answer is It's a different sweet spot for everyone.

I'd also add that picking a very cheap older car and looking for third party cover is likely to be an insurer's nightmare from a statistical basis. You might find that a newer/more expensive car is actually cheaper to insure.

 

[Dai Corner]

Absolutely. I've never had someone from my insurance company turn up and have a look at the mileage on my car, and given the car is less than 3 years old so never had an MOT I'm not sure how they'd prove how much I'd actually done in a policy term. But I still declare the mileage I actually do. Anything else is foolish.

I suspect they'd confirm the mileage in the event of a claim and you'd find yourself in trouble if you'd significantly under-declared.

 

[E27007]

If you buy and insure a car right now, with Social, Domestic & Pleasure use and a bit less annual mileage, perhaps with a tracker to get a cheaper rate. After a claim-free year, the savings from a no claims bonus might pay for the running costs in the first year.

BTW, I spent a year commuting 100 miles a day for the round trip. It was rubbish. I would be mentally tired in the evening. It was a real pain when I was ill or if there were traffic problems. I would also watch some videos of NCAP crash tests, and then go for a bigger car than an Aygo/C1.

I viewed the video of the C1 undergoing testing and i think the car performed to a high standard, the passenger occupancy cell did not deform, nothing wrong with the C1 in frontal and side impact accident situations

 

[RailWonderer]

My circumstances are of course incomparable with the OP's - and that's the point. If I was 23 and had 0 No Claims, all else being equal, quotes would probably either be £5000 a year or just a flat out decline to quote from most providers. Conversely, when your age starts with a 4 and you've got 15 years No Claims despite insuring for high mileage for years on end, it can cost not all that much.

I pay £1500 per year for a saloon with no NCB. I am early-mid 20s though I live in a semi-rural area and do under 4k miles per year. The only times insurers decline to insure is for high performance cars for teenagers. I've never heard that in any other instance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I pay £1500 per year for a saloon with no NCB. I am early-mid 20s though I live in a semi-rural area and do under 4k miles per year. The only times insurers decline to insure is for high performance cars for teenagers. I've never heard that in any other instance.

Worth noting that declining to quote for a particular risk isn't the same as being refused insurance. So don't tick that box unnecessarily, it really does add to the cost if you do! Though I agree it's rare, they usually just quote stupidly high, e.g. £10-20K for a young person on a fast car.

Being refused is more aimed at situations where they did quote but would not open the policy because they discovered something about you they really didn't like, e.g. previous fraud.

 

[telstarbox]

Moving house frequently is possibly a risk factor too - it certainly affects credit scoring. Not sure if renting vs homeowning also comes into it.
Would a moped be suitable as an interim transport?

Audis are generally mere non-indicators in my experience; BMWs still reign supreme when it comes to tailgating and all-round maniac conveyance. Although with my taste in cars I’m wide open to allegations of pot, kettle and black!



Yes good point.

Another “trap”, although it’s definitely not applicable here, is specifying too low a mileage. Again it makes sense in a way.



Nothing would surprise me.

A broker once told me that my premium would be lower if I didn’t keep the car in the garage, the logic being that once inside a thief is more likely to be left undisturbed, giving them more time to overcome multi-layer security. I suppose this is true, but I’m more concerned with keeping the local cats off the car!

Do cars still get nicked in significant numbers what with all the cross- referred databases and modern electronics?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do cars still get nicked in significant numbers what with all the cross- referred databases and modern electronics?

You pretty much can't nick one by just smashing the window and hotwiring it, the mandatory fitment of immobilisers has done wonders for that. But theft from cars is still common (and perhaps more so now it's not unlikely there might be a laptop or an iPad in the boot), and for premium cars they get nicked "to order" by either craning onto a low loader or breaking in to nick the keys.

 

[DustyBin]

Do cars still get nicked in significant numbers what with all the cross- referred databases and modern electronics?

It’s a serious problem with certain models. One of my cars (the garaged one) is extremely popular with thieves, unfortunately. There are examples on the owners club forum of keys being taken from within peoples homes, carjackings, and even one where someone’s teenage daughter was held at knifepoint. It’s organised crime these days as opposed to the joy riding epidemic of the 90s.

You pretty much can't nick one by just smashing the window and hotwiring it, the mandatory fitment of immobilisers has done wonders for that. But theft from cars is still common (and perhaps more so now it's not unlikely there might be a laptop or an iPad in the boot), and for premium cars they get nicked "to order" by either craning onto a low loader or breaking in to nick the keys.

A common method used to steal modern cars is to use a computer to “hack” the key fob. Faraday pouches are a popular defence against this, believe it or not.

 

[miklcct]

I have tried another scenario just now:
a fully-depreciated Peugeot 107
15000 personal miles
7000 business miles
an address on a high street in a town centre in rural Kent
comprehensive insurance

This is to assume if I am really priced out of the London and look for another location close to the railways, while still trying to use the HS1 whenever it's convenient for my leisure travel (hence the reduced number of miles).

The lowest quote returned is £920.

However, if I use my current address in inner London leaving all other details unchanged, the minimum quote returned is £1420.

Any thought about this? I need advice because my home in Cricklewood half a year ago no longer exists and now I live in a worse location in Dollis Hill, absolutely unsuitable for remote working (with no space for a working desk and poor 4G / 5G reception) and with poor transport links (where the only railway station within walking distance is Brent Cross West and only 2 bus routes which can be unreliable time to time compared to Cricklewood where both Thameslink and Jubilee are within walking distance and buses connect to the overground every 2-3 minutes), and better locations around NW2 are now out of my budget.

Of course a car is not something I want, but if I can get cheap insurance on a £1k used car which has low tax and is ULEZ-exempt, I may be more tolerant to moving to a cheaper location (for example, the rent in rural Kent is about £300 less per month compared to inner London) which has less resiliency in public transport. However, my life was miserable when I lived in Bournemouth, which is comparable to rural Kent, even before all the problems on the railways in 2022 as everything was so far away, hours away by train that I spent countless hours every week on the train alone when it ran, and couldn't go anywhere when it didn't run at all. (although rural Kent is a bit closer, less than an hour from London on the HS1.)

Outer London (e.g. Orpington, Croydon or Bromley) or urban Kent (e.g. Dartford, Gravesend or Swanley) maybe a good middle-ground if I can get both a significant amount of rent off inner London AND a cheap car insurance for a <£1k used ULEZ-compliant car, that I can still use public transport with off-peak fares for most of my travel needs and only drive to places when public transport fails me.

Does anyone have any suggestion where I can look at for a nicer place where getting car insurance is more affordable, while not too far away from the City?

 

[DelW]

A common method used to steal modern cars is to use a computer to “hack” the key fob. Faraday pouches are a popular defence against this, believe it or not.

Am I right in thinking that that's mainly a problem for "keyless entry" systems? When I specced my current car I deliberately avoided that option, so I still have press-buttons on the fob to lock and unlock it. Presumably someone with the relevant recording gizmo would need to be standing close by as I pressed the button to be able to grab the code? Or am I being overconfident here - I don't take any special precautions with where I keep or carry the keys.

 

[stuu]

The thing the OP needs to bear in mind is that it is third party losses which are expensive to insure against. The cost of their own car is fairly irrelevant, up to a point. Indeed it may be that the cheaper the car the more it costs as the data shows cheap cars are driven less carefully. Also exact job title makes a difference: Moneysavingexpert.com has a table of job titles and you can see if using something very slightly different makes a difference

 

[DustyBin]

Am I right in thinking that that's mainly a problem for "keyless entry" systems? When I specced my current car I deliberately avoided that option, so I still have press-buttons on the fob to lock and unlock it.

If you need to press the buttons on the fob you don’t need to worry about “keyless theft”.

Presumably someone with the relevant recording gizmo would need to be standing close by as I pressed the button to be able to grab the code? Or am I being overconfident here - I don't take any special precautions with where I keep or carry the keys.

I don’t believe this is possible, however what they can do is block the signal so the car doesn’t actually lock. It would rely on you not noticing though which with folding mirrors, beeping sounds, flashing indicators etc. is I suspect unlikely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Getting inside the car doesn't help you nick it, though (and is easy to do anyway - put a brick through the window). You also need to hack the immobiliser, which while no doubt possible is harder. It might get your laptop nicked, but really you should consider that a car (in terms of what's in it) is about as secure as your garden gate and so never leave anything valuable in it.

 

[DelW]

If you need to press the buttons on the fob you don’t need to worry about “keyless theft”.

I don’t believe this is possible, however what they can do is block the signal so the car doesn’t actually lock. It would rely on you not noticing though which with folding mirrors, beeping sounds, flashing indicators etc. is I suspect unlikely.

Thanks for the confirmation. I automatically listen for the "thunk" as I click the lock button .

 

[DustyBin]

Getting inside the car doesn't help you nick it, though (and is easy to do anyway - put a brick through the window). You also need to hack the immobiliser, which while no doubt possible is harder. It might get your laptop nicked, but really you should consider that a car (in terms of what's in it) is about as secure as your garden gate and so never leave anything valuable in it.

If they can block the signal from the fob they’ll quickly overcome a factory fitted immobiliser. The people doing this aren’t petty thieves. In reality though it’s low risk; keyless theft is the bigger worry.

 

[RailWonderer]

If they can block the signal from the fob they’ll quickly overcome a factory fitted immobiliser. The people doing this aren’t petty thieves. In reality though it’s low risk; keyless theft is the bigger worry.

Many cars in my area, Audi TTs, VW crossovers etc, all have wheel clamps, some on the wheel and steering wheel. There is an electronic device which can hack any car, and this theft is rife. Car thefts are at an all time high, especially with cheap leasing in recent years. They get clocked and mass exported to Eastern Europe, where the average car is more expensive and older.

 

[DustyBin]

Many cars in my area, Audi TTs, VW crossovers etc, all have wheel clamps, some on the wheel and steering wheel. There is an electronic device which can hack any car, and this theft is rife. Car thefts are at an all time high, especially with cheap leasing in recent years. They get clocked and mass exported to Eastern Europe, where the average car is more expensive and older.

Yes it's ridiculous, back to 90s levels.... We use Diskloks; they're a PITA but it's another deterrent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it's ridiculous, back to 90s levels.... We use Diskloks; they're a PITA but it's another deterrent.

I just do it by having an average but reliable car

I did have a Disklok when I had a Defender but it was a massive, massive faff.

 

[DustyBin]

I just do it by having an average but reliable car

Life's too short!

I did have a Disklok when I had a Defender but it was a massive, massive faff.

Yes, they really are....

 

[whoosh]

Try with and without a No Claims Bonus (if you have one).
When I put zero years no claims bonus in, it came back a lot cheaper, and the cheapest insurer was the same company still.

Utter micky takers the lot of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try with and without a No Claims Bonus (if you have one).
When I put zero years no claims bonus in, it came back a lot cheaper, and the cheapest insurer was the same company still.

Utter micky takers the lot of them.

That's a bit odd! I wonder were they offering an introductory discount if you put zero? Make sure you're not lying though, it will come back to bite you if you need to claim.

 

[whoosh]

Well... I've zero.

But I could've had some from being a second driver on someone else's policy. But as its more money for going through the hassle of claiming this wonderful bonus, I won't!

 

[richw]

Mine's a Ford Kuga and his a 5 door Fiesta, but mine's the base model and his is both a couple of years newer and more specced-up.

I don’t think this means anything. I replaced a 1.0 Hyundai i10 with a sporty Seat Leon model last summer. The Leon is £75 a year cheaper despite having considerably higher performance engine and much higher value

 

[DustyBin]

Well... I've zero.

But I could've had some from being a second driver on someone else's policy. But as its more money for going through the hassle of claiming this wonderful bonus, I won't!

My wife has more years no claims than she’s held a full license for (10 years vs 8 years respectively). She got a great “introductory” deal when she passed her test (two years no claims as she’d been a learner on my policy for 18 months) and has benefitted ever since. She’s been asked about it at renewal a couple of times (she changes insurer every year) but it’s never been a problem. It’s a strange game car insurance!

 

[duncombec]

I have tried another scenario just now:
[...]
an address on a high street in a town centre in rural Kent

[...] However, my life was miserable when I lived in Bournemouth, which is comparable to rural Kent, even before all the problems on the railways in 2022 as everything was so far away, hours away by train that I spent countless hours every week on the train alone when it ran, and couldn't go anywhere when it didn't run at all. (although rural Kent is a bit closer, less than an hour from London on the HS1.)

Outer London (e.g. Orpington, Croydon or Bromley) or urban Kent (e.g. Dartford, Gravesend or Swanley) maybe a good middle-ground if I can get both a significant amount of rent off inner London AND a cheap car insurance for a <£1k used ULEZ-compliant car, that I can still use public transport with off-peak fares for most of my travel needs and only drive to places when public transport fails me.

Where are you considering "rural Kent"? I suspect your use of rural won't match mine, as "rural Kent" doesn't have town centres, but village centres... Similarly, (one of, depending on your figures) the largest urban conurbation in the south east outside of London is in Kent.

Given your general desire to have 24/7 services, I have a feeling that anywhere you consider "rural" wouldn't be for you.

 

[GS250]

Funnily enough I put my partner onto my insurance an in spite of a £20 admin fee, I got a £10 refund!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Funnily enough I put my partner onto my insurance an in spite of a £20 admin fee, I got a £10 refund!

If they are slightly lower risk than you (or if cars with two drivers are lower risk than with one, which they might be as there's less risk of e.g. driving tired) that's not at all unlikely. A very common ruse is for young drivers living with their parents to put at least one parent on, that almost always reduces it (the theory being that the lower risk person will be driving at least some of the time) and is totally legitimate*. If you're concerned you may be lying and get caught out, get them to use it once every couple of months to go for a paper and you're sorted. Though it's legit for all sorts of reasons, e.g. they may want to shuffle the cars on the drive while you're out, which if it involves going onto the road even briefly requires them to be insured.

* As opposed to having the parent "front" it as main driver, which is fraudulent and the insurance companies are looking out for it.

 

[miklcct]

Where are you considering "rural Kent"? I suspect your use of rural won't match mine, as "rural Kent" doesn't have town centres, but village centres... Similarly, (one of, depending on your figures) the largest urban conurbation in the south east outside of London is in Kent.

Given your general desire to have 24/7 services, I have a feeling that anywhere you consider "rural" wouldn't be for you.

Rural Kent for me means those parts of Kent outside the Greater London built-up area.

I have started using this term after reading the description of Kent County Amateur Swimming Association:

The Association consists of two sub-Associations, Kent London Swimming Association (12 affiliated clubs) and Kent Rural Association (38 affiliated clubs).

The former association (in the Greater London built-up area) belongs to the London Region and the latter association belongs to the South East region.