Car on Track near Motspur Park — Major Disruption to SWR Suburban Services

[30907]

I'm in the confusing road layout camp. From back here, it's not obvious where you should be turning in, and with all the TURN LEFT's written in the road, it's no wonder this person has turned where they did.

The thing is, it wouldn't take much paint, a few bollards and a couple of extra keep left / right signs to make it much more clear as to where you should go.

So approaching a sharp left turn (>90deg) you put a " straight ahead" arrow?

I rather think that would increase the number of accidents at the junction.

And, leaving aside the more unpleasant consequences, it would probably cause more delay minutes to SW than one misguided driver in 10 years

looking at the map I'd say the railway was there first anyway

Highly unlikely - without an existing highway there would be no public level crossing.
It has certainly been there since 1871 when West Barnes Lane was but a track (6in OS map online).

 

[Bald Rick]

There is no space for a flyover and it is way too busy to be closed.

Also what were the plans for the level crossings in the area under the Crossrail 2 plans?

A bridge here, and possibly a bridge at Motspur Park (but more likely a footbridge).

 

[Egg Centric]

No, you are completely wrong there. From the photo, the car has gone a few metres onto the track. In the dark, with oncoming headlights pointing up at you as the road slopes slightly up to the crossing, it's not entirely impossible to imagine turning too soon. Of course it's a momentary lapse, unless you think they did it deliberately?

The lapse is not just in beginning to turn, it is not stopping when you're driving on a railway line (or about to be driving onto a railway line). They're at 90 degrees to the road they came off (assuming it wasn't the other theoretical path which would have been even worse). If you play the manouever through your head then assuming they weren't playing silly buggers they had about 5 seconds to realise what they were doing.

Totally agree. How many are prepared to admit that they have done something while driving that's nearly as stupid as that? I have - going down a one-way street the wrong way, in face of two large "no entry" signs and oncoming traffic! Didn't even have the excuse of being a new driver - and it was in daylight! I was distracted by my mum in the back telling me which way to go to get to the station (having missed the correct turn). Happily I realised, stopped, waited for a gap in the traffic and did a U-turn before there were consequences.

If we adopted the "driver/signaller stupid, no further discussion" attitude on railways we would still have dozens of fatal accidents a year, as they did in the 1860 and 70s when the consequences of that attitude were not yet understood.

This is more analagous to driving the wrong way down a motorway sliproad and then stopping after a few seconds.

No one (I think) is saying that we shouldn't try to learn from this and I don't actually object to in principle getting rid of punishments for motorists and replacing it with a "just culture" but the direction of travel these days is the opposite (see huge increases in penalties for causing death by careless/dangerous driving) and while that remains the framework this was bad driving. As is almost any level crossing incident tbh.

 

[BrianW]

I've just done this screenshot to help those who don't know this area to visualise it.

The big black X is where the driver ended up; the two thinner arrows are the two possible ways in which he or she could have got there. The straightness of the car on the tracks suggests the premature left turn is more likely; a driver coming through the filter lane would have had to steer right again in order to aim straight along the tracks.


Image is a marked screenshot of the Google Maps view of the level crossing in question.

View attachment 148751

IMHO this level crossing could be closed. West Barnes lane loops around and rejoins the b283 just south of Motspur park station. It is a local residential street with a 20mph speed limit and humps. there is a pedestrian bridge crossing both the B283 and the rail tracks. The road junction could have been 'improved' when Tesco was constructed- there is still room if it was thought worth it, which I doubt. I note the obseravtions about signage. When approaching along W. Barnes Lane, a sign is obscured by overgrown privet, and the direction sign to Raynes Park is confusing. I imagine, as supported by images over the years, that the various 'improvements' were ineffective responses to safety concerns, and maybe incidents. Too 'busy' visually. The k5 bus could be rerouted to complement the 163 perhaps. No easy or cost-free solution. What price safety against ease of maybe costly misjudgement?

 

[stuu]

The lapse is not just in beginning to turn, it is not stopping when you're driving on a railway line (or about to be driving onto a railway line). They're at 90 degrees to the road they came off (assuming it wasn't the other theoretical path which would have been even worse). If you play the manouever through your head then assuming they weren't playing silly buggers they had about 5 seconds to realise what they were doing.

Given how sharp the turn is, they would have been halfway round the corner before they fully realised their error. Then they stopped. The whole thing would have taken about 5 seconds from start to finish. That is all. A momentary error, which pretty much everyone who has ever had a driving licence will have done at some point or other

 

[Purple Train]

Given how sharp the turn is, they would have been halfway round the corner before they fully realised their error. Then they stopped. The whole thing would have taken about 5 seconds from start to finish. That is all. A momentary error, which pretty much everyone who has ever had a driving licence will have done at some point or other

And allowing for the time it would take to go from, "Ah, this isn't the corner," to, "Oh goodness, this is a railway line!" to "What do I do, I've never been in this situation before, help!" to "Brake!" all in the dark, they seem to have realised their error pretty sharpish.

As momentary driving errors go, this is perhaps more spectacular than most, but not necessarily more egregious. As a non-driver I shan't pass comment on that, but I would still be wary of exaggerating it simply because of how ridiculous the resultant situation looks.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's perfectly possible to believe both that this driver is utterly incompetent and shouldn't have a licence *and* that we should attempt to - if practical - mitigate against morons (another example of this: speed limits - wouldn't be necessary for 90% of drivers, but that other 10%...)

I don't even think that their incompetence is especially egregious. But it's bad enough they shouldn't have a licence.

This is not just a momentary lapse. Imagine actually doing it in your head and you'll see what I mean.

Must be nice being perfect, do you have any tips for us mere mortals?

 

[Mr. SW]

Studying the Google view of the NET, and regarding the subject...

I watched them build that bridge (and much of the rest of the line). Passed the bridge at least twice a week on my walk home from work while the new tram lines were under construction. At the time I thought "The road layout is wrong; the road leads naturally onto the tram bridge, so people will drive onto it regardless of any signs".

And they did, and they still do. You could put something like a rising retractable barrier right across and they would still just crash into that and the resulting accident would block the tram track for even longer.

I believe the only real solution is to separate the road from the tramway further from the bridge in a way that naturally leads the motorist away from the bridge.

Google street view shows what I mean; the road needs moving to the right, just taking a bit of carpark, removing the "kink" so the road leads straight onto the rest of the road rather than curving gently and invitingly left onto the the tram bridge. You'd probably have to move a few of the OHLE masts as well.

Did anyone not notice the cyclist?

 

[zwk500]

Given how sharp the turn is, they would have been halfway round the corner before they fully realised their error. Then they stopped. The whole thing would have taken about 5 seconds from start to finish. That is all. A momentary error, which pretty much everyone who has ever had a driving licence will have done at some point or other

5 seconds is actually quite a long time. I can totally get that a new driver would have turned at the wrong moment, panicked and frozen so it just carries on, but it's not a momentary error.

 

[duffield]

Studying the Google view of the NET, and regarding the subject...

Did anyone not notice the cyclist?
View attachment 148828

That's not unusual. The "no pedestrians/cyclists etc." bits of the tram network are frequently used as unofficial shortcuts, including the town centre viaduct and the down ramp to Arkwright Street. I confess I've walked across this bridge once, but that *was* before the first test tram ran over it!

 

[stuu]

5 seconds is actually quite a long time. I can totally get that a new driver would have turned at the wrong moment, panicked and frozen so it just carries on, but it's not a momentary error.

Two or three seconds would be turning the corner. They had stopped pretty much instantly, not carried on up the line for any appreciable distance. I'll stick with momentary error

Lots of perfect people on this forum

 

[30907]

IMHO this level crossing could be closed.

Or made one-way West to East, which would limit the overload on Motspur Park LC?

What price safety against ease of maybe costly misjudgement?

Is there evidence of a site-specific risk? The incident that started this thread was a considerable nuisance, but was anyone endangered?

 

[Egg Centric]

Must be nice being perfect, do you have any tips for us mere mortals?

Lots of perfect people on this forum

This sort of remark is starting to get silly at this point, at no point am I or anyone else claiming perfection. I'm very confident I would not accidentally (or intentionally ) drive down a railway track though and I'm very confident that the majority of drivers wouldn't either as can be seen by the rarity of this sort of incident.

For perspective, it happens less than people driving the wrong way down a motorway and there are more level crossings than motorway junctions*!

*I don't actually know either of these two things for sure but I would wager money on both of them

 

[Lucan]

IMHO this level crossing could be closed. West Barnes lane loops around and rejoins the b283 just south of Motspur park station. It is a local residential street with a 20mph speed limit and humps.

Did you mean the B282? Anyway, W Barnes Lane does not join either the B282 or B283 near Motspur Park station (where there is another level crossing). The B282, having come south from Raynes Park turns west towards Kingston shortly after passing this junction as the crossbar of the "T". As such, W Barnes Lane -> B282 -> New Malden --> Norbiton is the most obvious road route to Kingston (and areas beyond like Staines and Heathrow), from the areas south of Morden, Cannon Hill and even Sutton areas. I often went that way when I lived in Mitcham.

Having a 20mph limit says little about the status of a road these days : I could show you A-road by-passes with 20mph limits around where I live - the limit has been overplayed and devalued. Moreover, there are very few roads in London apart from shopping streets and ones like the Chiswick flyover which are not "residential streets". The mini-roundabout at the south-east end of this part of W Barnes Lane (where it meets Crossway) is a de-facto raising of its status, as is its yellow colouring rather than white on the OS maps.

Roads are not usually closed because of a near-miss, which I expect is how the police would classify this incident, there being no injuries I understand. It would depend on a wider history of incidents, and also on the result of any police inquiries into the circumstances of this event and any additional factors involved.

 

[Bikeman78]

And allowing for the time it would take to go from, "Ah, this isn't the corner," to, "Oh goodness, this is a railway line!" to "What do I do, I've never been in this situation before, help!" to "Brake!" all in the dark, they seem to have realised their error pretty sharpish.

As momentary driving errors go, this is perhaps more spectacular than most, but not necessarily more egregious. As a non-driver I shan't pass comment on that, but I would still be wary of exaggerating it simply because of how ridiculous the resultant situation looks.

As a comparator, I've had many drivers turn left and attempt to cut across the city centre cycle line in front of me. The more observant will slam on their brakes and stop far more quickly than the car in question did. There are those that have no intention of stopping and just carry on but that's entirely different. Perhaps I am lucky but I have never come close to doing anything as crazy as this car did.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This sort of remark is starting to get silly at this point, at no point am I or anyone else claiming perfection. I'm very confident I would not accidentally (or intentionally ) drive down a railway track though and I'm very confident that the majority of drivers wouldn't either as can be seen by the rarity of this sort of incident.

For perspective, it happens less than people driving the wrong way down a motorway and there are more level crossings than motorway junctions*!

*I don't actually know either of these two things for sure but I would wager money on both of them

However you are suggesting that someone who made a very silly (but ultimately inconsequential from a safety perspective) mistake in their first few weeks of driving be removed from the roads permanently as a result. Yes, mistakenly driving onto a railway is a dramatic mistake, but there are people with years of experience who do far worse things on the road repeatedly and deliberately, and it's very rare for the courts to permanently revoke a driving licence. Whilst it was disruptive for the railway and looks bad, the risk to life as a result was fairly minimal due to the safety culture the railway operates under. I suspect that this individual will be extra cautious with crossings in future as a result of this embarrassing error they made.

Much like how RAIB investigations seek to learn lessons rather than simply apportioning blame, it is likely far more constructive to look holistically at how this incident occurred and learn lessons both about how signage and road markings could be improved, and how learner drivers are trained to deal with level crossings. By pinning all of the responsibility on the single individual, you may miss the chance to actually improve safety overall.

Ironically, had this driver been held at the crossing due to a train, they almost certainly wouldn't have then made the mistake they did once the train had passed and the barriers raised. Having been held and seeing a train pass, they'd have been far more aware of which bits were road and which bits were not.

As others have suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of SatNav system was involved in this incident, and there does seem to still be a problem of people following GPS without question, and misinterpreting the directions given. This despite following a SatNav now being part of the driving test. Perhaps the way that these aspects are taught could use some enhancement?

 

[Deafdoggie]

However you are suggesting that someone who made a very silly (but ultimately inconsequential from a safety perspective) mistake in their first few weeks of driving be removed from the roads permanently as a result. Yes, mistakenly driving onto a railway is a dramatic mistake, but there are people with years of experience who do far worse things on the road repeatedly and deliberately, and it's very rare for the courts to permanently revoke a driving licence. Whilst it was disruptive for the railway and looks bad, the risk to life as a result was fairly minimal due to the safety culture the railway operates under. I suspect that this individual will be extra cautious with crossings in future as a result of this embarrassing error they made.

Much like how RAIB investigations seek to learn lessons rather than simply apportioning blame, it is likely far more constructive to look holistically at how this incident occurred and learn lessons both about how signage and road markings could be improved, and how learner drivers are trained to deal with level crossings. By pinning all of the responsibility on the single individual, you may miss the chance to actually improve safety overall.

Ironically, had this driver been held at the crossing due to a train, they almost certainly wouldn't have then made the mistake they did once the train had passed and the barriers raised. Having been held and seeing a train pass, they'd have been far more aware of which bits were road and which bits were not.

As others have suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of SatNav system was involved in this incident, and there does seem to still be a problem of people following GPS without question, and misinterpreting the directions given. This despite following a SatNav now being part of the driving test. Perhaps the way that these aspects are taught could use some enhancement?

Obviously we don't know, but I'd be surprised if a satnav was involved, as they now give good clear maps and directions. And a new driver probably couldnt afford one. It's also taught during lessons as can be part of a test. They could have used Google maps on their phone, but they are about the clearest system so I'd be surprised. I suspect it was just good old-fashioned confusion and disorientation at an unfamiliar junction in the dark.

 

[Bald Rick]

Obviously we don't know, but I'd be surprised if a satnav was involved, as they now give good clear maps and directions. And a new driver probably couldnt afford one.

Sat Nav is on just about every smart phone, and just about every car less than 10 years old, including this model.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I'd be surprised if a satnav was involved, as a new driver probably couldnt afford one.

That car is a Volvo with a 2015 registration - almost certainly fitted with satnav as standard. And many new drivers will be driving mum and dad's car. (A new driver was driving mine when someone drove into it and wrote it off)

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm very confident I would not accidentally (or intentionally ) drive down a railway track though and I'm very confident that the majority of drivers wouldn't either as can be seen by the rarity of this sort of incident.

Indeed; How many motorists use this particular LC each day, and of those, how many misread the road markings and/or have a 'momentary lapse', and turn and drive onto the railway?

 

[dangerousdids2]

Assuming it was a simple mistake and assuming the driver thought it was a junction. The highway code states that you should stop at a junction and check that your exit is clear before proceeding.
So are we to assume the driver stopped, looked left and right and for some strange reason didn't notice the railway? Or should we assume the driver didn't stop and made the turn without checking anything?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Assuming it was a simple mistake and assuming the driver thought it was a junction. The highway code states that you should stop at a junction and check that your exit is clear before proceeding.
So are we to assume the driver stopped, looked left and right and for some strange reason didn't notice the railway? Or should we assume the driver didn't stop and made the turn without checking anything?

I'm not convinced they thought it a junction, just merely the road continuing onwards to the left.

 

[MotCO]

I also assume there was no car in front of the 'P' driver, otherwise they would have surely followed them to the junction rather than take a short cut down the railway. This LC is very busy, and it is unusual for there not to be nose-to-tail traffic.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Assuming it was a simple mistake and assuming the driver thought it was a junction. The highway code states that you should stop at a junction and check that your exit is clear before proceeding.
So are we to assume the driver stopped, looked left and right and for some strange reason didn't notice the railway? Or should we assume the driver didn't stop and made the turn without checking anything?

There was no give way or stop line, and no traffic lights, (the wigwags were not lit at the time) so the assumption would be that you have right of way (as indeed they do at the actual junction beyond the crossing).
Do you stop and look every time you turn into a side road?

 

[Deafdoggie]

There was no give way or stop line, and no traffic lights, (the wigwags were not lit at the time) so the assumption would be that you have right of way (as indeed they do at the actual junction beyond the crossing).
Do you stop and look every time you turn into a side road?

I'm not even convinced they thought they were turning. I think they could have well thought the road went left

 

[GusB]

Mountains from molehills!

It was dark. What was the weather like that night? Was the driver familiar with the road in question? Were they following a satnav? Was it the first time they'd been out on their own after passing their test? Were they nervous about being out on their own? What other stuff did the driver have on their mind at the time? We will never know. Some people were inconvenienced, but nobody was hurt.

These are all things that would be examined in minute detail if the mistake was on the railway side, but we just don't have that level of examination of people's behaviour with car drivers.

It's easy to sit in your comfortable armchair and pontificate when you have a couple of decades of driving experience under your belt. Of course it was a monumental blunder, but I still challenge the expert drivers here to put your hand on your heart and tell me that you didn't do anything silly, intentional or otherwise, after you passed your test. There's far too much "holier than thou" going on here.

 

[43066]

Mountains from molehills!

It was dark. What was the weather like that night? Was the driver familiar with the road in question? Were they following a satnav? Was it the first time they'd been out on their own after passing their test? Were they nervous about bring on their own? What other stuff did the driver have on their mind at the time? We will never know. Some people were inconvenienced, but nobody was hurt.

These are all things that would be examined in minute detail if the mistake was on the railway side, but we just don't have that level of examination of people's behaviour with car drivers.

It's easy to sit in your comfortable armchair and pontificate when you have a couple of decades of driving experience under your belt. Of course it was a monumental blunder, but I still challenge the expert drivers here to put your hand on your heart and tell me that you didn't do anything silly, intentional or otherwise, after you passed your test. There's far too much "holier than thou" going on here.

Agreed. People who take deliberate risks like running LC lights deserve a lot more derision than someone who simply got disorientated and made a mistake, albeit a fairly monumental one!

 

[dangerousdids2]

I'm not convinced they thought it a junction, just merely the road continuing onwards to the left.

I can see that being a possibility, still I think it's a bit hard to make that mistake, for a new driver even. There is a level crossing near me with I right turn immediately after the crossing on one side and a sharp right bend immediately on the other. Being in a rural area with no clear road markings, signs or lighting and to my knowledge no one has ever mistook the railway for the road.

There was no give way or stop line, and no traffic lights, (the wigwags were not lit at the time) so the assumption would be that you have right of way (as indeed they do at the actual junction beyond the crossing).
Do you stop and look every time you turn into a side road?

As above there's a crossing near me with a lot less signage, markings or lighting that no one to my knowledge has made the same mistake.

I can't say I stop when turning into a side road unless I'm unfamiliar with the road lay out but this is a junction.

 

[stuu]

I can see that being a possibility, still I think it's a bit hard to make that mistake, for a new driver even. There is a level crossing near me with I right turn immediately after the crossing on one side and a sharp right bend immediately on the other. Being in a rural area with no clear road markings, signs or lighting and to my knowledge no one has ever mistook the railway for the road.

However, you would have no idea how many people might have mistakenly started turning too early but then realised in time to correct their error. Nothing would be reported, and if there's no other traffic or no cctv, no one will ever know.

 

[zwk500]

Sat Nav is on just about every smart phone, and just about every car less than 10 years old, including this model.

Of course, having a satnav available does not mean you are going to bother setting it for every journey, especially local trips.