Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour

[PHILIPE]

Thanks for this. Do you know which services it's working?

EDIT: Great Malvern to Brighton today reported as being formed of 5 coaches between Bristol and Brighton. I assume a 3 car 158 and a 150 but not certain

150938:
05.44 Bristol to Portsmouth
09.23 Portsmouth to Cardiff
13.30 Cardiff to Portsmouth
17.23 Portsmouth to Cardiff
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Brightons were 158954 and 150123

 

[Right Away]

The Cardiff-Portsmouth has the interesting ability to lose time on stationless stretches with nothing in front of it that I've long admired.

As someone who works over this route, I will try and provide some background to the operational side of this particular service.

It is quite an interesting route as it crosses through several distinct areas run by a mix of operators. It is more of a cross country service, serving large population centres. In the early 90's, alternate services missed out Westbury and Trowbridge with very few calling at Bradford on Avon. Now all services stop at these stations, with the volume of traffic easily justifying this. The route serves a mix of markets for commuting and leisure, such as Bristol to Cardiff, Bath to Bristol, Filton/Bristol/Bath to West Wiltshire, Salisbury to Southampton and Southampton to Portsmouth. It provides connections into other routes such as at Portsmouth for the Isle of Wight, Fareham for Brighton, Southampton for XC to the north, SWT towards Weymouth and Waterloo, Southern to Brighton, Salisbury for Waterloo and Exeter, Westbury for Weymouth, the South West and London, Bath for Swindon, Reading and London, Bristol for XC to the north and south west as well as local services, Newport for Hereford, Manchester and North Wales, and Cardiff for West Wales and the Valley lines.

Leaving Cardiff (xx:30) the services are timetabled to closely follow the Swansea to Paddington services (xx:25). Even if the PAD is 10 minutes late, the PMH will be held to give the HST a shot at PPM at Paddington. The PAD will be caught up at Newport owing to the increased dwell time because of slam door stock, and the maximum line speed of 95 mph. Leaving Newport, even if the PMH service trundles along at 60 mph, the service will often be brought down to a red at Severn Tunnel west, waiting for the HST to clear the Severn Tunnel. Approaching Filton, a Cross Country service (xx:00 from Bristol Temple Meads) is booked across the junction just in front of you. This in turn will be delayed if the PMH to CDF service in the opposite direction is slightly behind schedule. Running into Temple Meads is often required not only for the volume of people, but also because of crew diagrams. CDF to BRI is worked by Fratton, Westbury, Bristol, Exeter, Gloucester and Cardiff (including ATW drivers) depots, many changing crews at Bristol. Reversing here with a DMU is not a major issue.

Scheduled to leave BRI at xx:22, as long as the PMH is ready to leave BRI by xx:28 it should be all right. If not, the xx:30 to PAD will be given priority. A lot of people will squeeze onto the three car train here destined for Bath, even with an eight coach HST just behind. Bathampton is the next conflict point, but it is only a problem if the down Paddington service is running late. A delayed PAD to BRI train will affect the following PMH to CDF service, which will be held at Bathampton to give the HST a chance of PPM. Two aspect signalling with long sections along the Avon Valley route is a problem if you are following a stopping service, which can cause a problem in the evenings. Westbury can be a bit of a bottleneck as it is a crossroads, with plenty of freight traffic thrown in to the mix as well. The 1984 rationalisation of the station layout can cause problems at busy times. The run from there down the Wylye valley should allow a clear run. The Salisbury area is again a bit restrictive with only three through platforms, but is only normally an issue if late running is affecting the services. Potential conflict points are Wilton Junction and Salisbury Tunnel Junction.

A nice chance to gain a little time between Milford Curve and the outskirts of Romsey with a line speed of 85 mph, although it is one long signal section from Milford to East Grimstead (and vice versa). If you are following something, you will lose considerable time. If leaving Romsey on time, you will often get brought down to a red at Redbridge as a fast service to Waterloo goes across the junction in front of you. This will be followed to Southampton, where you will often get held outside waiting for this to vacate your platform, although this is reflected in the schedule. The two track Southampton tunnel is a bottleneck for both freight and passenger workings. As an aside, the diversionary route from Romsey to Fareham via Chandlers Ford, Eastleigh and Botley is quicker with a clear run than the route via Southampton and Netley.

St Denys can cause some problems, as services to and from the Netley route are restricted across the junction to 20mph, and will be held to allow a faster service from the Eastleigh route across the junction. The route from there to Fareham is 2 aspect signalling with long sections, which restricts the headway between trains, especially when following a delayed service as is often the case in the opposite direction. You can arrive at Cosham on time and then pass St Denys 10 minutes late if the Southern service is even slightly delayed. The Southern services call at Portchester and Swanwick, and have a short turn around time at Southampton. Fareham to Cosham is straightforward, providing Havant ASC drop the barriers in good time to prevent restrictive aspects. Portcreek Junction is another conflict point. Services to and from Cosham can only do 20mph across junction, so services on the main line from Havant get priority in order to make PPM.

As you can understand, it is a varied route with a number of points of potential conflict if services are not running exactly to time. For example, Cross Country, Great Western, Southern and South West Trains all run class one trains over parts of the route, so who deserves priority when services are delayed?

I hope that this provides an interesting insight of the characteristics of this particular route.
Regards.
RA.

 

[greaterwest]

Thanks for this. Do you know which services it's working?

EDIT: Great Malvern to Brighton today reported as being formed of 5 coaches between Bristol and Brighton. I assume a 3 car 158 and a 150 but not certain

Yes, the Great Malvern to Brighton (1O98) and Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads (1V96) were formed of 5 coaches today due to the Southern strike, so to strengthen the service in the Coastway (mainly Cosham - Brighton) area.

Usually when they long-form it, it is a 150/2 and 158/9.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Brightons were 158954 and 150123

Beaten to it!

 

[pompeyfan]

That must have been a bit annoying for the guards. No corridor connections. I know there's lots of GWR formations that don't have connections, but on a day like yesterday I'm sure it would have been appreciated.

 

[Envoy]

That must have been a bit annoying for the guards. No corridor connections. I know there's lots of GWR formations that don't have connections, but on a day like yesterday I'm sure it would have been appreciated.

Presumably, when the 165’s/166’s arrive and operate at 5 car trains (2+3), no through corridor will exist. This does not make it easy for people to walk through the train searching for a seat - or the guard for that matter. BTW, does anyone know when these trains will arrive from the Thames Valley?

Sunday is the only day which has a through service between Cardiff & Brighton. Such a service is attractive to those who do not want the hassle of a change / negotiate London.

I wonder if a Swansea > Cardiff > Newport > Bristol ™ > Bath electric service is on the cards? Perhaps such a service could extend to Chippenham > Swindon > Oxford?

Someone suggested that trains could skip Bristol ™ via Dr.Days junction. My experience is the Temple Meads has a huge shift of passengers. We should also note that Temple Meads is a transfer point between south Wales passengers and those heading to/from the south-west. (The only direct trains between Cardiff and the south west tend to be slow all stop 150 sprinters - most of which terminate at Taunton).

 

[greaterwest]

As someone who works over this route, I will try and provide some background to the operational side of this particular service.

[...]

Services to and from Cosham can only do 20mph across junction, so services on the main line from Havant get priority in order to make PPM.

As you can understand, it is a varied route with a number of points of potential conflict if services are not running exactly to time. For example, Cross Country, Great Western, Southern and South West Trains all run class one trains over parts of the route, so who deserves priority when services are delayed?

I hope that this provides an interesting insight of the characteristics of this particular route.
Regards.
RA.

Let's not forget the evening Brighton services which are usually doomed from the moment they enter the Coastway area.

Let's look at this one then, this is only guesswork based off RTT workings & personal experience of using the route.

1O98, the inward working to Brighton follows 1Y25, the 1426 Southern service to Brighton via Eastleigh

This train is due to depart Fareham at 1456
1O98 is due to arrive Fareham at 1458

Assuming both trains run on time (1O98 now being right behind 1Y25) and taking into account the issues in the Avon valley & beyond as discussed by Right Away, then all will be well until we hit Havant.

1Y25 should depart Havant at 1509
1O98 should depart at 1515
but then 2S68, the 1459 Portsmouth & Southsea to Littlehampton is due to arrive at 15:17

Great, another possibly-delayed-Southern-service for 1O98 to get trapped behind.

Now at Worthing, 1O98 overtakes 1Y25, assuming they are both running to time.

1Y25 arrives Worthing at 1551, and should depart at 1559
1O98 arrives Worthing at 1554, should depart at 1555.

Now at Hove, 2E82, the 1539 West Worthing to Brighton is added into the mix of possible things to go wrong.

2E82 departs at 1604,
1O98 arr 1607 dep at 1608

There's somewhere for it to go wrong once again, though admittedly at this point it can't do much damage.

Let's now look at the RETURN WORKING, 1V96, the 1702 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads.

Immediately upon leaving Brighton at 1702, 1V96 will be followed by 2N25, the 1705 Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour (stopper).

If that's delayed, 1V96 will already lose time until such point as a path exists for an overtake (unlikely during the peak period!) and will be around 10-12 minutes late by the time it reaches Havant.

If all goes well, we move on.

Now at Worthing, 1V96 is expected to leave at 1722, but right in front of it is 2E97, the 1651 Southern service from Brighton to Bognor Regis via Littlehampton.

This train is expected to depart at 1719
1V96 will now follow this to Arundel Junction.

Back to Havant again.

1C32, the 1606 London Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour is expected to depart Havant at 1754
1V96 arrives Havant at 1757 for a 1758 departure.

Then add in the problems West of Havant as described earlier...

 

[mugam4]

As someone who works over this route, I will try and provide some background to the operational side of this particular service.

Thanks, this was very insightful!

Let's not forget the evening Brighton services which are usually doomed from the moment they enter the Coastway area.

Do you think it would be worth cutting back the Brighton service to, say, Southampton and allowing Southern to take over running of the 'fast' Brightons? This would at least contain these delays, and presumably if they're under the same Control more can be done to get them back to Right Time?

 

[GarethW]

Many thanks RA that's added a few new insights - it's a route I do a few times a year from Fareham to Bridtol/Cardiff at various times of the day.

 

[greaterwest]

Thanks, this was very insightful!

Do you think it would be worth cutting back the Brighton service to, say, Southampton and allowing Southern to take over running of the 'fast' Brightons? This would at least contain these delays, and presumably if they're under the same Control more can be done to get them back to Right Time?

I don't think so, the Brightons are a franchise obligation and personally I think a nice link to & from the West for the Coastway area. 1V96 tends to make up some time on the stretch between Fareham and Southampton Central and may even be right time by SOU, but as I said before, it'll then be affected by the issues described by Right Away with the Wessex Main Line up to Bristol.

 

[Parallel]

As someone who works over this route, I will try and provide some background to the operational side of this particular service.

It is quite an interesting route as it crosses through several distinct areas run by a mix of operators. It is more of a cross country service, serving large population centres. In the early 90's, alternate services missed out Westbury and Trowbridge with very few calling at Bradford on Avon. Now all services stop at these stations, with the volume of traffic easily justifying this.

I've always wondered what the calling patterns of this service were like in the past. The growth of passengers using BOA, Trowbridge and Westbury has definitely been substantial in the last decade. Trowbridge is close to reaching a million now making it the busiest station (for entries/exits) by far between Bath Spa and Salisbury, although Westbury obviously higher passenger interchange. All three stations are very busy in the morning, and services that start at Westbury can often be full and standing by the time they've left Bradford On Avon. Not bad at all!

On a different note, my train today to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh was scheduled to call additionally at Hedge End and Botley tonight. I thought it may be due to issues with Southern but it's SWT that run the services. Hedge End and Botley weren't announced (despite appearing on the electronic display boards) as presumably GWR's autoannouncer hasn't recorded these stations.

 

[Kite159]

I've always wondered what the calling patterns of this service were like in the past. The growth of passengers using BOA, Trowbridge and Westbury has definitely been substantial in the last decade. Trowbridge is close to reaching a million now making it the busiest station (for entries/exits) by far between Bath Spa and Salisbury, although Westbury obviously higher passenger interchange. All three stations are very busy in the morning, and services that start at Westbury can often be full and standing by the time they've left Bradford On Avon. Not bad at all!

On a different note, my train today to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh was scheduled to call additionally at Hedge End and Botley tonight. I thought it may be due to issues with Southern but it's SWT that run the services. Hedge End and Botley weren't announced (despite appearing on the electronic display boards) as presumably GWR's autoannouncer hasn't recorded these stations.

19:30 Cardiff to Portsmouth via Eastleigh?

Looks like it calls at those two stations on a regular basis, replacing a SWT service giving those stations an hourly service

 

[Parallel]

19:30 Cardiff to Portsmouth via Eastleigh?

Looks like it calls at those two stations on a regular basis, replacing a SWT service giving those stations an hourly service

Maybe, though I'm pretty sure these were not station calls when I caught the same train two weeks ago.

 

[greaterwest]

Maybe, though I'm pretty sure these were not station calls when I caught the same train two weeks ago.

That train calls at Southampton Airport Parkway, Eastleigh, Hedge End and Botley.

 

[PHILIPE]

Maintains Diversionary Route knowledge.

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe, though I'm pretty sure these were not station calls when I caught the same train two weeks ago.

They seem to be fairly unpublicised, but RTT is showing the calls tonight as well, and dated from the new timetable start until September.

It does fill an obvious gap, because the Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh is no longer 'clock face' at that time of day. The SWT service is unchanged for this timetable, so although filling a longer gap it isn't a new gap. IYSWIM.

Times at Hedge End with origin station
2036 1T61 SW London Waterloo
2137 1T65 SW London Waterloo
2230 1F99 GW Cardiff Central
2257 2T69 SW Basingstoke
2336 2T71 SW London Waterloo

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C41580/2016/05/20/advanced

The underlying GW services via Eastleigh (one each way each evening) have been running for a good few years for route knowledge purposes, but the passenger calls at Parkway and Eastleigh were only newly added at the timetable change about 18 months ago. The Portsmouth to Westbury train taking the route the other way doesn't make the addition calls at Botley and Hedge End, presumably because the SWT service is still roughly hourly without a long gap.

I thought there might be a track access application (TAA) somewhere to give GWR's reasoning, but haven't found anything so far. Is there a scheme for addition station calls to be added for a trial period but outside of the TAA system?

 

[Wookiee]

Back in the days when it was run by the SR with Hampshire Units it stopped at all stations and never ever kept to time. Then there was a period of luxury when it was operated with Class 33 and de-classified corridor firsts - it wasn't much better time-wise but was extremely comfortable. The step change came with the sprinters and I think it must be nearly an hour cut from the running times by also missing stops. These days it is busiest between Bath and Trowbridge (all day) Bristol and Westbury (Peak) and Filton Abbey Wood and Westbury (Rush Hour). Pax from the north via XC who want a seat might find it easier to change at both Bristol PW and Westbury if they can tolerate the extra journey time.

I can recall a considerable variation in stopping patterns in the Crompton days. Some services were effectively 'fast', stopping (from PMS) at Fareham, Southampton, Romsey, Salisbury, Bath and Bristol. Others typically alternated between stopping at Warminster, Westbury and/or Trowbridge. Only occasional trains bothered with Bradford and the other smaller stations.

There was a nice period in the late 80s where two or three services a day were Brush-hauled and you'd also get the occasional Class 31 substituting. I picked up 56033 from Fareham to PMH one afternoon, having been tipped the wink by one of the Fareham station staff - that was nice!

 

[Matt Taylor]

That may have been 56033 in May 1988 which then did the 1530 Portsmouth to Waterloo throughout!