Carlisle Airport, will it work?

[thenorthern]

Just looking apparently Carlisle Airport is going to be expanded soon and it will soon have direct flights to London and Dublin.

While I don't like to see any airport fail I just can't see Carlisle Airport succeeding. The main problem I always find is people forget Carlisle isn't that big with a population of just 75,000 which in similar terms is like Burton-upon-Trent, Nuneaton and Tamworth each having their own airport.

The Lake District connection to the airport may work but with lack of direct transport links between the airport and the Lake District this may be a problem and in any case with a direct link from London Euston to Oxenholme Lake District I can't see the flights taking passengers off the trains.

What does everyone else think.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You have addressed the matter of London in your posting, but have not elaborated on the other destination of Dublin.

 

[duncanp]

Looking at it on the map, it is 6 miles North East of the city centre.

The official airport website does not have any details of public transport links from the station, so I wonder what services (if any) there are.

I can't help but think that it will suffer from being too close to Manchester Airport. Anyone living in the North West of England (including Carlisle itself perhaps) is surely more likely to travel there as there is a greater choice of flights and better onward transport connections (National Rail and Metrolink)

Remember that another small airport in the region (Blackpool) closed quite recently.

 

[Hornet]

Well Stobart Air is an Irish based Airline (ex Aer Arann) and fly in Aer Lingus Regional colours. Cannot see any market for Dublin except to ferry their ATR's across for the Carlisle London route (Dublin-Carlisle-Southend anyone). Ryanair did fly to Blackpool a few years back but the numbers were not there. Dublin's market is where there is a large Irish diaspora. (London, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow).

Small regionals struggle even if there is a perceived market. Minoan Air introduced a Dublin to London Oxford service to tap into the passenger market between the Oxford Universities and the Hi Tech companies in Dublin, using Fokker 50 aircraft. (Cityjet fly Dublin Cambridge). I booked a flight with them to try their service out. A couple of weeks before I was due to fly, they changed the departure time. No problem as I was coming in from Aylesbury. A week before I was to fly, they cancelled the flight. That meant me having to book a last minute flight through Luton with Ryanair, (which turned out to be cheaper than the Minoan flight). Further research on the Professional Pilots forum showed that they were getting as few as 6 pax per sector. They had moved to weekends only services. A few weeks after Minoan Air shut up shop completely.

 

[telstarbox]

I suppose it depends who is flying. Easyjet and Ryanair probably won't be interested as they have bases at Glasgow and Prestwick respectively, but there might be a market for a smaller number of passengers paying high fares.

Profit and volumes are not necessarily correlated!

Also, a brief check on Google Maps shows that it takes about as long to reach Newcastle Airport as Manchester Airport from Carlisle. Is there much "trans-Pennine" trade for Newcastle at the moment or does that airport just serve Tyne & Wear?

 

[starrymarkb]

Stobart also do a lot of flying from Southend for FlyBE, now with their base at Carlisle it could be a way of rotating aircraft through the system.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Carlisle Airport is about 7 miles out of Carlisle, about halfway between Carlisle and Brampton on the A689. There's no public transport to the airport as there's no public flights at the airport. It's not too far from the M6 and the A74. The catchment area is potentially quite big, covering a fair bit of the borders area and Galloway as well as northern Cumbria. There are definitely potential customers about.

I'm not sure it'll achieve a great deal though, really. Manchester Airport isn't a rival but Newcastle Airport- an hour's drive to the east- is a rival and already has good links with Dublin and London. Aer Lingus previously pulled out of Newcastle as they couldn't make the route work, so I do wonder why they think Aer Lingus Regional from Carlisle will do any better.

 

[St Rollox]

Sure there was a daily Carlisle - Heathrow BA flight back in the 1970s.
The catchment area is probably a lot bigger than most people think.
Stranraer a 100 miles away would be about the limit on the Scottish side if there was a morning and evening flight to London.
The catchment area must have the best part of 250,000+ people in it.

 

[telstarbox]

The catchment area for Blackpool was easily more than that (even if you just count the Fleetwood - Lytham - Preston triangle) but it wasn't viable.

 

[St Rollox]

The catchment area for Blackpool was easily more than that (even if you just count the Fleetwood - Lytham - Preston triangle) but it wasn't viable.

Blackpool Airport's only hope was if the city had become the Las Vegas of Europe.
I'm sure Europe's gamblers would have backed it.
Was a odd idea from a Labour Party Goverment of all people.
An idea which came to nothing, surprise surprise.

 

[WatcherZero]

Indeed original idea of super casino was defeated by Conservatives in the Lords by three votes. Rebooted as a plan for a dozen smaller casinos but when Brown became PM, son of a church minister, unsurprisingly the vice was cancelled.

 

[mrmartin]

Being from the area originally I'm not sure.

Airports people currently tend to use (in order of how often):

Manchester - really big selection of destinations
Newcastle - probably the quickest to get to but the A69 is pretty appalling and so is the rail service so actually is further than you'd think time wise. Also quite limited in destinations and airlines that use it
Edinburgh/Glasgow - both not that handy, may change with the trams in Edi now though?

The other problem is that trains finish very early from Edinburgh and Glasgow (20:18 from HYM for example, which means you'd be struggling for any flights scheduled to land after about 5/6pm).

So I don't know, it may work. Blackpool is a lot closer to Manchester airport which has loads of destinations and flight options/times etc

 

[Greenback]

I don't think Carlisle Airport will be a success. It's only chance is finding a niche market of some sort, which I feel is unlikely. There's too much competition from Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Manchester.

 

[thenorthern]

With the North West I normally see Manchester as the fancy long haul International Airport used by the "Big" airlines where as Liverpool is more the lo-cost no-frills airport for which the two of them work very well together with people travelling from Manchester to Liverpool and vice-versa to use each others airport and with that system it seems it will be very hard for any airport to open in the region although as Carlisle is at the far end of the region it has an advantage.

The Lake District appeal may work although probably only to international passengers as Oxenholme Lake District is already taking the rail passengers from London and I doubt it would be quicker to go to any London Airport, fly to Carlisle and drive to the Lake District. With Dublin I can't see it working either as the ferries are also serving the North West and people are able to take their cars on ferries.

I would like to be proved wrong but since 2000 we have seen Plymouth City, Blackpool, Kent, Coventry, Sheffield City all close and with Teesside on its last legs plus Shoreham loosing all destinations I can only see it happening too soon for Carlisle Airport.

I know Stobart Group have said about freight flights from the airport which with them being based in Carlisle and having industry in road, rail and waterways I think that may work for them.

 

[mrmartin]

With the North West I normally see Manchester as the fancy long haul International Airport used by the "Big" airlines where as Liverpool is more the lo-cost no-frills airport for which the two of them work very well together with people travelling from Manchester to Liverpool and vice-versa to use each others airport and with that system it seems it will be very hard for any airport to open in the region although as Carlisle is at the far end of the region it has an advantage.

The Lake District appeal may work although probably only to international passengers as Oxenholme Lake District is already taking the rail passengers from London and I doubt it would be quicker to go to any London Airport, fly to Carlisle and drive to the Lake District. With Dublin I can't see it working either as the ferries are also serving the North West and people are able to take their cars on ferries.

I would like to be proved wrong but since 2000 we have seen Plymouth City, Blackpool, Kent, Coventry, Sheffield City all close and with Teesside on its last legs plus Shoreham loosing all destinations I can only see it happening too soon for Carlisle Airport.

I know Stobart Group have said about freight flights from the airport which with them being based in Carlisle and having industry in road, rail and waterways I think that may work for them.

Manchester actually has waaaaay more Ryanair/Easyjet flights than Liverpool these days.

I think flights to maybe Dublin and possibly Amsterdam might work, to connect into hubs and can be quite valuable (while the actual feeder flight itself isn't, the medium-longhaul flight may be)

 

[freetoview33]

I think there would be a few Stobart/Flybe flights to at least Southend and most likely Dublin, Maybe an odd few flights to places in Spain ect, also maybe Amsterdam? But nothing big. I guess the best hope would be to try and get a low cost airline on board. I can't see easyjet as Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle are all close, (The might do a few odd routes) other I guess the main hope would be to try and get Ryanair to open a base there, but I don't see that being overly likely either. So maybe some other airline, Wizz Air or Norwegian, could be attractive to them to have a Northern Base as well as a Southern one.

I think the main plan was for freight flights but now Stobart Group have pulled out of Eddie Stobart a bit will this still happen? I could see it being an attractive option if they still relocate depots that are nearby there. It does seem like they want to create another East Midlands Airport/Daventry in one!