father_jack
Member
- Joined
- 26 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 1,132
Indeed.That isn't the Rule Book instruction at all.
Indeed.That isn't the Rule Book instruction at all.
Yes, too many pictures and screenshots to portray easily, sorryIsn't the power car in the trees near the digger?
No - but it does give a grim insight into just what forces would have been involved to see those carriages flung around like that.Not the first time I've heard the robustness of the MK3s mentioned. Looking at the photo of the three MK3s straddling the tracks, with one either inverted or crushed down to the window line, is it possible that they were arranged like this following some initial recovery work?
I was thinking this, if it's hit a landslip, it must have done so before the bridgeA cutting just before the overbridge?
ASLEF guy on BBC Radio Scotland talking about a black box, is that the same thing as the OTMR, what type of stuff does that record? is it just a standard thing to prove that there was nothing wrong with the train and or driver performance ?
I believe the ORR has previously said that the number of landslips and the such have increased massively - there have been a few that have shut lines for months in recent memory so I can imagine they would be quite urgent on this.I can't comprehend the scale of damage, for a train supposedly running at reduced speed.
Another line of comment on the BBC is apparently from ORR who are saying the increasing risks of severe weather, and its consequences, are outstripping Network Rail's capability to protect the network from such events.
I can't comprehend the scale of damage, for a train supposedly running at reduced speed.
We aren't sure that it hit a landslip. What we do know is that a landslip near Carmont blocked the line, so it was reportedly heading back to Aberdeen having crossed over to the correct line.I was thinking this, if it's hit a landslip, it must have done so before the bridge
ASLEF guy on BBC Radio Scotland talking about a black box, is that the same thing as the OTMR, what type of stuff does that record? is it just a standard thing to prove that there was nothing wrong with the train and or driver performance ?
When you say forward facing CCTV if the front power car is recording, does it still record what the rear is seeing too or is that one disabled similar to when control is locked out in the rear cab by the driver's key in the driving cabI would think it is a reference to OTMR, but calling it a 'black box' is going to be far more understandable to the public. It is standard fitment and records all manner of train 'parameters' such as speed but also the position of the controls. The train involved will have also been fitted with forward facing CCTV.
I was thinking this, if it's hit a landslip, it must have done so before the bridge
Hopefully this OTMR survived the fire in the front power car. Just looked them up on Wikipedia...I would think it is a reference to OTMR, but calling it a 'black box' is going to be far more understandable to the public. It is standard fitment and records all manner of train 'parameters' such as speed but also the position of the controls. The train involved will have also been fitted with forward facing CCTV.
Crash protection requirements:
- Fire resistance of 700 °C for 5 minutes
- Impact shock of 100 g, three times on each of its six sides
- Static crush of 20 kN for 1 minute, to all edges and faces
- Fluid immersion in water, AFFF or R134A for 1 hour
- Magnetic field produced by a current pulse of 0 to 64 kA, rising at 107 A/s, at a distance of 1 metre
Not the time for this from TSSA really.
RAIB has sent a team of HMIs to the scene:
Pictures clearly show it was right line
If a train is stopped immediately the amount of kinetic energy to disperse is massive.
For instance, the Cannon St crash was at only 10mph but I believe obliterated an entire coach. Yes, they were Mk1s, but that's still a lot of energy.
Which is what i have said. 50mph only relates to SLW. No defined speed for wrong direction movement in general.SLW....a standard wrong direction movement is different.
I was a TSSA member throughout my railway career.
Their behaviour these days disgusts me.
Whilst a bit of leeway is understandable, I think it reasonable to expect news organisations to present accurate version of events to the public, and at the time this was reported the type of train was perhaps one of the few things that was apparent, and thus the one thing that could be relied upon to be correct. Whilst the story is one of tragedy, I feel readers would have been better served with a potted description of the train such as:The journalists aren’t rail experts and are under pressure to get the reports out. Yes accuracy is important but given the fast moving nature of the incident they will get details wrong. Probably the first time they’ve had to consider the formation of a train.
Previously been mentioned that the GSMR signal might have been out of range on this part of track.Regarding the communication, I’ve just been talking to a friend. Apparently there’s a radio system called GSMR which sends out emergency calls.
However, even if the driver is incapacitated, after a few minutes, if the driver doesn’t press down a pedal (deadman’s pedal so to speak), it triggers the alarm automatically, think he said DSD Alarm or something like that.
So unless the GSMR equipment got damaged immediately when the incident happened or there was no mobile signal an alarm call would have automatically been sent within minutes.