Catford Loop to Blackfriars - why?

[Sad Sprinter]

Would have thought Victoria would have been a better terminus at least for the busier part of the line between Peckham and Catford, considering West End access is a bit fiddly from those areas.

 

[30907]

Would have thought Victoria would have been a better terminus at least for the busier part of the line between Peckham and Catford, considering West End access is a bit fiddly from those areas.

One of those accidents of history and geography! I've had a brief look on Timetableworld.com at a 1906 Bradshaw to comfirm some of the following:

The LCDR business traffic was heavily focused on the City, Victoria being much quieter, as were the local competitors (LBSC and SER) so it's not surprising the infrequent Catford Loop trains ran from St Paul's (Blackfriars).
There were some Crystal Palace HL-Victoria workings which I suppose served the West End from leafy Upper Sydenham.
From 1911 the South London Line electrics were serious competition, so it's not surprising the SR stuck with Blackfriars. .

Victoria remained much the lesser commuter destination until the Victoria Line opened (1967) - it wasn't even desperately convenient for West End shopping IIRC.
BR(S) responded to that change some 10 years later (once Victoria was resignalled) with the Victoria-Dartford service (I can recall colleagues saying they didn't think they would work!) replacing the emptying Holborn-Dartfords.
(They could, I suppose, have diverted some peak Catford Loops to Victoria - but woe betide any railway management that tampers with peak hour commuting, as numerous examples prove!)

10 years further on, and we had Thameslink, which changed things again. There was pre-pandemic a plan for a Victoria-Bellingham service which would fulfil the need you mention, but it has seemingly dropped right off the radar.

PS Catford Loop trains ran to Victoria at weekends in the late 70s/ early 80s (IIRC) as an economy measure. Don't think it did much for passenger loadings either wa6!

 

[Magdalia]

Victoria remained much the lesser commuter destination until the Victoria Line opened (1967) - it wasn't even desperately convenient for West End shopping IIRC.

Victoria mainly served the bit of London where posh people lived, think Belgravia, Pimlico, Knightsbridge, Sloane Square and Kensington.

A big influence on commuter flows was the expansion of the civil service in the 1960s from Westminster towards Victoria with, for example, the Board of Trade at 1 Victoria Street and what became Environment Department in Marsham Street.

The Victoria Line made a huge difference for linking Victoria with the West End because it went under St James's Park and Green Park, buses either had to go to Hyde Park Corner and along Piccadilly or to Parliament Square and up Whitehall.

When I first worked in London in the 1980s the main line between Bromley South and Herne Hill via Penge East had as much peak hour traffic into Blackfriars and Holborn Viaduct as it did into Victoria.

 

[Fincra5]

Would have thought Victoria would have been a better terminus at least for the busier part of the line between Peckham and Catford, considering West End access is a bit fiddly from those areas.

Because, in the peak these go through to Welwyn Garden City.

Blackfriars allows odd peak connections via the TL Core. If you want Victoria there's SE or change!

 

[SE%Traveller]

When the South London Line service (Victoria to London Bridge v Denmark Hill) was withdrawn back in 2012 there was a proposal to replace it with a 2tph Bellingham to Victoria Service. In the end the money was diverted to complete the Overground extension.

Arguably there is now a west end connection at Farringdon, but that's fiddally off peak. Going in is fine, same level platform change and frequent connections on, the return not so much, easy to get wrong it wrong and then a half hour wait at Blackfriars....

Personally I'd loose either the Victoria or Blackfriars service in return for a 4tph 15 mins apart to the other, but can't see that happening any time soon sadly

 

[brad465]

Is there even the capacity now to send the Catford loop trains into Victoria instead of Blackfriars? This would be extra traffic over the flat junction and/or flyover at Brixton, and through the 3 track section between Wandsworth Road and Grosvenor Bridge.