Caught using an Oyster card loaded with a discount which I wasn't entitled to

[lamarshudubuly]

Hi all, this Sunday I was stopped in Euston Station, leaving the station, where I was asked for my Oyster Card. I have been using my brother's card sometimes (I don't really take train too often) but when I was stopped I had told them that I must've got it mixed up with my one when leaving in a hurry. They took down my details and said they will send me a letter and took the card. I am very stressed out and have heard all about the criminal record, and was wondering if anyone can provide some guidance on what to do here, what I can expect in the worst case scenario just so I can understand.

Thank you.

 

[Huntergreed]

Hi all, this Sunday I was stopped in Euston Station, leaving the station, where I was asked for my Oyster Card. I have been using my brother's card sometimes (I don't really take train too often) but when I was stopped I had told them that I must've got it mixed up with my one when leaving in a hurry. They took down my details and said they will send me a letter and took the card. I am very stressed out and have heard all about the criminal record, and was wondering if anyone can provide some guidance on what to do here, what I can expect in the worst case scenario just so I can understand.

Thank you.

Welcome to the forum.

What type of card did your Brother have, was it a discounted Oyster card in any way (I presume so if they’ve stopped you)?

It is a criminal offence to use a card with a discount you are not entitled to.

TfL will get in contact with you via a letter to ask for your side of the story. It is very important you reply to this letter and include the following in your reply:

The general advice we give is that you should respond to this letter in a constructive and apologetic matter. Try to include the following in your letter

- Apologise for the incident.
- State what you have learned from the incident.
- Assure them that this will not happen again
- Offer to pay the unpaid fare, as well as their administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

Keep the letter concise and do not give a sob story. Once you have drafted a response, post it on here so we can offer advice/amendments before you send it.

Unfortunately, TfL take this sort of thing extremely seriously and rarely offer out of court settlements for this. In my opinion, it’s highly likely you will be prosecuted under the TfL byelaws.

That said, they have occasionally offered settlements before to those who constructively engage with the process, so it’s very much worth trying. Your best chance is to wait for the letter and then respond as listed above.

The letter may take up to 6 months to arrive (as this is the maximum time limit TfL have to initiate legal proceedings).

 

[methecooldude]

If this was a free travel card provided by TfL for his services as a contractor, it is super important you tell your brother what has happened. TfL take a hard stance on misuse of free travel facilities and your use of it could affect his work with TfL, along with the pass being cancelled

 

[30907]

Two pieces of good news to add to Huntergreed's thorough reply:
one, a Byelaw prosecution is a "non-recordable" offence, so it is not recorded centrally and the conviction is unlikely to damage your career seriously (provided you don't try to hide it).
two, they are likely to ask you about this one occasion, so you don't need to mention any others.
The bad news, as methecooldude has just written, is that your brother is likely to have questions to answer.

Amended, as another poster has suggested the original was misleading.

 

[Haywain]

this Sunday I was stopped in Euston Station, leaving the station, where I was asked for my Oyster Card.

Which part of Euston station? Were you stopped by staff of TfL or London Northwestern Railway?

 

[lamarshudubuly]

Does anyone know what the fines are like, and also can I not say that I got it mixed up with my brother, considering we live together in the same house, and that I may have accidentally picked up his one instead of mine?

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know what the fines are like, and also can I not say that I got it mixed up with my brother, considering we live together in the same house, and that I may have accidentally picked up his one instead of mine?

Having been caught misusing your brothers pass, you will not help your case by continuing to lie about what happened.

It wasn't TFL staff, they had a badge, and were waiting at the gates when you tap out

Was it at the barriers from the underground or from the Overground platforms?

 

[methecooldude]

Does anyone know what the fines are like, and also can I not say that I got it mixed up with my brother, considering we live together in the same house, and that I may have accidentally picked up his one instead of mine?

Considering contractor (and other free travel passes) are a different colour to a standard Oyster (its Orange) and says "Contractor" on it, you might have a hard time getting anyone at TfL to believe that

 

[lamarshudubuly]

Having been caught misusing your brothers pass, you will not help your case by continuing to lie about what happened.

Was it at the barriers from the underground or from the Overground platforms?

Underground platform.

I understand, but at the same time, does it not sit better saying it was an accident and misunderstanding rather than agreeing and say "Yep I use it from time to time"

 

[Haywain]

Underground platform.

In which case it would have been TfL staff, even if they were not in uniform.

I understand, but at the same time, does it not sit better saying it was an accident and misunderstanding rather than agreeing and say "Yep I use it from time to time"

If it was genuinely accidental, then say so. If it wasn't, don't say it was. I doubt it will make much difference to TfL either way as they have heard it all before.

But the oysters sit in the same Oyster wallet, the white ones, which we actually both do have for our oyster cards.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a different wallet to avoid such 'confusion' then.

 

[lamarshudubuly]

In which case it would have been TfL staff, even if they were not in uniform.

If it was genuinely accidental, then say so. If it wasn't, don't say it was. I doubt it will make much difference to TfL either way as they have heard it all before.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a different wallet to avoid such 'confusion' then.

Understood, what I want to know though is what are the consequences.

So I understand "criminal conviction", but it isn't seen on a DBS check.

Regarding fines, how much can one expect for a fine for this?

 

[greatkingrat]

Remember that TfL will be able to check the journey history of the Oyster and see exactly when and where it has been used.

 

[Haywain]

Regarding fines, how much can one expect for a fine for this?

The level of fine will depend on your income, but you won't get much change out of £500. There will be a fine of, say, £220 plus victim surcharge (40% of the fine) and costs of around £150, plus unpaid fares.

 

[lamarshudubuly]

Remember that TfL will be able to check the journey history of the Oyster and see exactly when and where it has been used.

I have a few questions for this;

1. How can TFL know who used the card on which given date, given that me and my brother live in the same house, and made a similar journey?
2. How far back can they track the usage of the Oyster card?
3. Are they known to use CCTV, if not, then how can they possibly know who used it, where?

 

[UserM]

Two pieces of good news to add to Huntergreed's thorough reply:
one, a Byelaw prosecution is a "non-recordable" offence, so you don't get a criminal record and the conviction is unlikely to damage your career seriously (provided you don't try to hide it).
two, they are likely to ask you about this one occasion, so you don't need to mention any others.
The bad news, as methecooldude has just written, is that your brother is likely to have questions to answer.

In relation to getting a criminal record, the statement you make is manifestly untrue. If convicted in a magistrates court of a byelaw offence. You will indeed have a criminal record, as you have been convicted of a criminal offence.

The misunderstanding comes from the fact that this byelaw conviction will not normally appear on the PNC (Police National Computer) unless it is added by court staff mistakenly, or if convicted alongside any other more serious offences.

The person in question would indeed have a criminal conviction and it is a matter of public record that they do. However it will almost certainly not appear on the PNC as mentioned above.

Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, a byelaw offence is considered immediately spent and this to many employers unless they have a specific need to know. Does not have to be declared. However I must caution that when applying for jobs, honesty is the best policy. Companies will not be bothered by a minor ticketing conviction. It is much better for you to be up front, than them to find out later and end your employment.

It is important that people understand these differences and do not give misleading information to people on this forum.

 

[Haywain]

I have a few questions for this;

1. How can TFL know who used the card on which given date, given that me and my brother live in the same house, and made a similar journey?
2. How far back can they track the usage of the Oyster card?
3. Are they known to use CCTV, if not, then how can they possibly know who used it, where?

Your questions increasingly make it look like this was anything but accidental. In reality, TfL might well make an educated guess but you are in no position to argue with them.

 

[lamarshudubuly]

Your questions increasingly make it look like this was anything but accidental.

I am just curious because I have seen a lot of other threads where people are saying TFL can track and see the usage, but how could they know?
Reason I am asking is, say if I accidentally used it yesterday, but then they see that similar trip was made, but what about if those trips were my brother? I don't want to be accused of making different trips when I haven't.

 

[AlterEgo]

Underground platform.

I understand, but at the same time, does it not sit better saying it was an accident and misunderstanding rather than agreeing and say "Yep I use it from time to time"

Well no, because that's a lie, and not a believable one either.

I have a few questions for this;

1. How can TFL know who used the card on which given date, given that me and my brother live in the same house, and made a similar journey?

They cannot know, but they are not daft enough to think you are so unlucky you used the pass only once and got caught during a (pretty rare!) revenue check.

2. How far back can they track the usage of the Oyster card?

It's academic really because they will just prosecute you for the single offence. Luckily for you it'll be a Bylaw offence and nothing more serious.

3. Are they known to use CCTV, if not, then how can they possibly know who used it, where?

As above, it's academic.

 

[lamarshudubuly]

Well no, because that's a lie, and not a believable one either.


They cannot know, but they are not daft enough to think you are so unlucky you used the pass only once and got caught during a (pretty rare!) revenue check.


It's academic really because they will just prosecute you for the single offence. Luckily for you it'll be a Bylaw offence and nothing more serious.


As above, it's academic.

Yeah but my point is if they cannot know, they also cannot make generalisations / assumptions that where else the card has been used, it hasn't been the card holder. Because say I made a trip, that my brother had made previously, how would it be fair to generalise all those trips to me and give me a bigger fine/fare to pay?

 

[AlterEgo]

Yeah but my point is if they cannot know, they also cannot make generalisations / assumptions that where else the card has been used, it hasn't been the card holder. Because say I made a trip, that my brother had made previously, how would it be fair to generalise all those trips to me and give me a bigger fine/fare to pay?

It's academic. You will be prosecuted for the single Bylaw offence - the one where you were caught - in the magistrates court. They don't care how many other times you used it.

They caught you once and that's enough for them.

 

[Jake_CC45]

Yeah but my point is if they cannot know, they also cannot make generalisations / assumptions that where else the card has been used, it hasn't been the card holder. Because say I made a trip, that my brother had made previously, how would it be fair to generalise all those trips to me and give me a bigger fine/fare to pay?

Revenue Inspectors aren't idiots, they hear excuses for all sorts of actions day in day out. You won't be the first person to claim to have taken the "wrong" oyster card, just be honest with them rather then try and make up a story that isn't true.

It is also worth noting that you are trying to make up a story and cover all the holes on a public forum, if any of them happen to see this and put two and two together then game's up. Honesty is the best policy.

 

[6Gman]

Yeah but my point is if they cannot know, they also cannot make generalisations / assumptions that where else the card has been used, it hasn't been the card holder. Because say I made a trip, that my brother had made previously, how would it be fair to generalise all those trips to me and give me a bigger fine/fare to pay?

Basically, they know what information they have or haven't got. You don't know what information they have.

They definitely have evidence of a single offence. It's possible, though unlikely, that they could trace evidence of further offences.

 

[flythetube]

Contractor Oyster Cards are open end dates ie no expiry date.

They are also only valid in conjunction with the authorised users photo ID card which WILL have an expiry date on it.

When you claimed that you could have accidentally picked up your brothers Oyster wallet by mistake, did this wallet also contain your brothers accompanying Photocard?

Or had you taken out your brothers Oyster from the wallet and just had that with you as if this was the case that would show that you knew what you were doing.

Contractor Oysters are also limited in how they can be used.

Strictly they are for duty travel ONLY between places at where your brother is working (eg cleaner maybe working 2 or 3 stations).

Strictly not for travel to / from home / work locations although depending on the nature of the work and department who arranged issue of the Oyster, that maybe loosely allowed.

They are not for Leisure use, so if Tfl check the dates and locations that your brother was scheduled to work and find journeys made with the card on dates and times outside of those, then your brother will have some explaining to do.

Staff ticketing irregularities are deemed far more serious matters than those of the travelling public and can have affect on one’s employment ultimately.

So you must tell your brother what has happened although I suspect he already knows when he found that his contractor Oyster has gone missing!!

Matt_World I am sure can verify or clarify the above if necessary.

 

[Hadders]

TfL take misuse of passes very seriously. They don’t need to research the card history, the one incident where they have caught you is all they need to prosecute you under the TfL Bylaws in the Magistrates Court.

TfL will send you a verification letter asking whether you admit or deny the offence, there is also an opportunity to give any mitigating circumstances you want them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

Here’s a link to TfL’s Revenue Enforcement and Prosecutions Policy which gives more information.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[pedr]

Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, a byelaw offence is considered immediately spent and this to many employers unless they have a specific need to know.

Can you say which section of RoOA indicates this? I thought that a conviction punished by a fine is spent after 12 months - is there something which makes the position different for non-recordable offences?

I agree that it is very important to make clear that a conviction for a non-recordable offence is, nevertheless, a conviction particularly as there are various circumstances where the RoOA concept of a spent conviction does not apply.

 

[jon0844]

It would seem that if you claim only one case of misuse, but they check the usage data and it shows other usage where nobody should have used it, it either means you used it incorrectly - or he did. Are you going to throw him under a bus, possibly resulting in him being fired?

Every journey will be recorded.

 

[fandroid]

Has the OP actually admitted that the brother's Oyster is a high value one? I know it seems very likely indeed, and they don't seem to care one tiny bit about the consequences for the brother.

Would TfL be bothered at all about several people sharing a normal PAYG Oyster card? As far as I can imagine, the only revenue impact for TfL would be when fare caps are reached too early.

The only thing about whether TfL see evidence of previous misuse is that they do occasionally let people off with just a warning, but presumably only if they don't suspect a habit of card misuse.

Edit. I see that the thread title indicates a discount loaded onto the card that doesn't apply to the OP

 

[Hadders]

A normal PAYG Oyster card can legitimately be shared, unless there’s a railcard discount loaded on to it.

 

[Haywain]

Has the OP actually admitted that the brother's Oyster is a high value one?

The OP said the card was retained by the revenue staff, so we can probably safely assume it was a high value card.

 

[island]

Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, a byelaw offence is considered immediately spent

That is not correct. The Act says no such thing.

If the convicting court decided that an absolute discharge was an appropriate sentence, that would be immediately spent, but these are not often seen.

Whilst a conviction for a railway byelaw offence will not ordinarily appear on a DBS check, this is by virtue of the fact it is not an imprisonable offence or otherwise specified in regulations as a recordable offence, not because it is "immediately spent".

and this to many employers unless they have a specific need to know. Does not have to be declared.

This is not right either. A lot of employers would say they have "a specific need to know" about all convictions, but the only ones entitled to know about spent convictions are those recruiting a role specified in the various regulations as entitling them to ask.

In practice, someone with a recent conviction for a railway byelaw offence who does not declare it is unlikely to find their employer discovers it, because it is non-recordable, but...

However I must caution that when applying for jobs, honesty is the best policy. Companies will not be bothered by a minor ticketing conviction. It is much better for you to be up front, than them to find out later and end your employment.

This I agree with.

It is important that people understand these differences and do not give misleading information to people on this forum.

It is important that you follow your own advice