Caught using someone else's Railcard...

[silly]

My friend had bought a ticket with a railcard discount, but then sold this ticket to me. Because I didn't have a railcard, he let me borrow his. That train journey went fine, but I left his railcard in my wallet. A few weeks later I was about to catch a train when they check my under 24 / student railcard, (I didn't intend to book a ticket with a railcard, as I don't have one, honestly) So I pulled out his railcard. The company was Transpennine express, and I had an open return ticket.

I've had a letter that they're prosecuting and I could even get a criminal record out of all this. How likely is this? Hopefully I'll just get a fine? Does anyone have any advice on what to write in the letter back? I'm worried sick.

Thanks

P.s. Editting on here instead of responding to comments because moderators aren't approving them

 

[mikeg]

We don't quite have enough information to help you. For a start, you say you pulled out the railcard on the train? Or at the ticket office? Were you in possession of a ticket beforehand, and if not where and when did you board the train? If there were ticketing facilities where you boarded that makes things worse as you're not generally meant to board a train without a ticket where facilities exist prior to boarding. Not that it is 100% relevant as your intent to dodge the fare was demonstrated by pulling out a railcard that didn't belong to you, but boarding without a ticket may have already drawn attention to yourself.

Also which company caught you and which were you travelling with? Some are easier to deal with than others.

An aside, only a court can issue a fine, so for you to get a fine you'd have to go to court. I suspect what you are seeking is an out of court settlement.

Finally does it state the offence they are accusing you of? What are the words of the allegations? This will decide whether you will get a criminal record if you plead or are found guilty.

 

[silly]

I showed them the railcard at the ticketing gates (They weren't automatic ones) and I had a ticket for the train I was about to board.

I was travelling with Transpenine express.

Thanks

 

[silly]

And so far I've only got a letter stating that there was an "Alleged incident", no specifics yet.

 

[Puffing Devil]

A few weeks later I was about to catch a train when they check my railcard (I didn't intend to book a ticket with a railcard, as I don't have one, honestly) So I pulled out his railcard.

Why were you having your railcard checked? Did you buy or request a ticket with a railcard discount? We need to know exactly what happened.

What kind of railcard did your friend lend you?

 

[najaB]

A few weeks later I was about to catch a train when they check my under 24 / student railcard, (I didn't intend to book a ticket with a railcard, as I don't have one, honestly) So I pulled out his railcard.

Did you have a ticket at this point, if so what was it?

 

[falcon]

I showed them the railcard at the ticketing gates (They weren't automatic ones) and I had a ticket for the train I was about to board.

I was travelling with Transpenine express.

Thanks

Was the ticket a railcard discounted ticket?

 

[Greenback]

silly, please explain exactly what happened. What ticket did you have - was it a railcard discounted ticket and why did you buy such a ticket? What railcard did you have?

 

[najaB]

...I didn't intend to book a ticket with a railcard, as I don't have one, honestly...

Did you have a ticket when you got to the barrier and was it railcard-discounted or full price?

 

[SA_900]

My friend had bought a ticket with a railcard discount, but then sold this ticket to me. Because I didn't have a railcard, he let me borrow his. That train journey went fine, but I left his railcard in my wallet. A few weeks later I was about to catch a train when they check my under 24 / student railcard, (I didn't intend to book a ticket with a railcard, as I don't have one, honestly) So I pulled out his railcard. The company was Transpennine express, and I had an open return ticket.

I've had a letter that they're prosecuting and I could even get a criminal record out of all this. How likely is this? Hopefully I'll just get a fine? Does anyone have any advice on what to write in the letter back? I'm worried sick.

Thanks

P.s. Editting on here instead of responding to comments because moderators aren't approving them

1. Do you have a valid railcard?
2. Did you have your railcard on you at the time?
3. Did you show the guard this railcard after pulling out your friend's?
4. What are they prosecuting you for exactly?

 

[mazza887]

The way I read it was that he purchased a ticket at a discounted railcard price. He does not have his own railcard so showed his friend's railcard that he still had when his ticket got checked.

 

[najaB]

The way I read it was that he purchased a ticket at a discounted railcard price. He does not have his own railcard so showed his friend's railcard that he still had when his ticket got checked.

That's what we need to be very clear on before we can provide any useful advice.

 

[Deepgreen]

Aside from anything else, surely the borrowing of a railcard to purchase travel (even if already in possession of a railcard yourself) is an offence in itself? I refer to the OP's admission of the use of the friend's card for the unchallenged journey.

 

[najaB]

Aside from anything else, surely the borrowing of a railcard to purchase travel (even if already in possession of a railcard yourself) is an offence in itself? I refer to the OP's admission of the use of the friend's card for the unchallenged journey.

It is but, as far as we know, they aren't facing being prosecuted for that journey.

 

[Deepgreen]

It is but, as far as we know, they aren't facing being prosecuted for that journey.

Indeed, but I was surprised to see no warnings here for that action alone.

 

[najaB]

Indeed, but I was surprised to see no warnings here for that action alone.

One crime at a time.

 

[Haywain]

It is but, as far as we know, they aren't facing being prosecuted for that journey.

Is it? As far as I am aware no offence is committed until the ticket is used (to enter a compulsory ticket area or for travel, and the former isn't totally clear). I have always advised staff that if someone insists on buying a discounted ticket to which they are (obviously) not entitled they should sell it and tip off revenue protection staff.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

 

[221129]

Is it? As far as I am aware no offence is committed until the ticket is used (to enter a compulsory ticket area or for travel, and the former isn't totally clear). I have always advised staff that if someone insists on buying a discounted ticket to which they are (obviously) not entitled they should sell it and tip off revenue protection staff.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

It was used and they got away with it...

 

[najaB]

Is it? As far as I am aware no offence is committed until the ticket is used (to enter a compulsory ticket area or for travel, and the former isn't totally clear).

The purchase wasn't an offence, but using it to travel was. Apologies, I should have been clearer.

 

[island]

It is worth noting that tendering at an entrance ticket gate a ticket you know to be invalid or that you know you are not entitled to use is likely to be an offence in itself of attempting to travel without payment of the fare and with the intent to avoid the payment thereof.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is worth noting that tendering at an entrance ticket gate a ticket you know to be invalid or that you know you are not entitled to use is likely to be an offence in itself of attempting to travel without payment of the fare and with the intent to avoid the payment thereof.

Yep, exactly.

If the OP was using a railcard discounted ticket for the journey where he was stopped, or trying to buy one after having travelled, then it is really a slam-dunk case of intending to avoid payment. He knew he didn't have a valid railcard.

If the OP wasn't using a railcard discounted ticket, then they were not committing an offence when they were stopped. Whether the TOC can prove a previous offence (and yes, the OP has pseudononymously admitted an offence here) will depend on what the OP said at the time to the people who stopped him. Simply having someone else's railcard in your possession is not an offence and nor does it prove another offence; there are many reasons why you could legitimately have someone else's railcard in your possession.

But if the OP were foolish enough to have admitted using it before, that makes it very different...

 

[gray1404]

Yep, exactly.
Simply having someone else's railcard in your possession is not an offence and nor does it prove another offence; there are many reasons why you could legitimately have someone else's railcard in your possession.

I agree.

It would be good if the OP could come back on and answer some of the outstanding questions/provide full information so that people here can advise further.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed. There isn't much else that can be said without further input from silly.