Change Railcard discount to anything other than Anytime?

[Fawkes Cat]

Over in D&P, there are loads of posters coming to us because they thought they could use their £5 anytime ticket (bought against the 1030 train) on the 0830 train, and they were caught out.

As I understand it, the point of the time/price restrictions on railcards is to discourage their use on busy trains. And I also understand the point of the price premium on Anytime tickets against their off-peak equivalents is also to discourage the use of busy trains. (In both cases this could be expressed as encouraging the use of less busy trains). So could the rules be made simpler by withdrawing the time/price restriction on railcard tickets and replacing with a ban on using against anytime tickets?

All comments on the pros and cons welcome. And for completeness can we exclude the Disabled Person's Railcard which is rather more about tackling disability discrimination than about marketing excess capacity on trains.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So could the rules be made simpler by withdrawing the time/price restriction on railcard tickets and replacing with a ban on using against anytime tickets?

Aren't there certain routes that don't have non-anytime tickets at all.
E.g. https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WGN&dest=WTH&period=20230703 which I discovered by accident (also 5 days outwards validity? Very odd ticket.)

 

[zwk500]

It's one of those ones where you might make it better for the cases we here about, but at the cost of penalising everybody who does use the ticket correctly. I don't know how often the circumstances would be that you purchase an anytime ticket with a railcard when departing off-peak (although maybe if your route has evening peak restrictions?) so maybe it's not a problem.

The only other thought is that it's yet another layer of conditions that somebody has to think about and arguably goes against the notion of simplifying the fares system. But then we get into the issue of what the brave new world might look like, which is a different thread.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The only other thought is that it's yet another layer of conditions that somebody has to think about and arguably goes against the notion of simplifying the fares system

Wouldn't it be one less layer? Anyone already travelling on an off-peak ticket has to know what restrictions to follow and would still have to do this: no one would need to worry any more about minimum Railcard fares or about what time the restrictions end (or variations between different cards).

Aren't there certain routes that don't have non-anytime tickets at all.
E.g. https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WGN&dest=WTH&period=20230703 which I discovered by accident (also 5 days outwards validity? Very odd ticket.)

Also, I think, all of Merseyrail. Merseyrail would be a problem but outside there would relabelling anytime-only flows as off-peak-only cause any problems?

 

[30907]

Over in D&P, there are loads of posters coming to us because they thought they could use their £5 anytime ticket (bought against the 1030 train) on the 0830 train, and they were caught out.

As I understand it, the point of the time/price restrictions on railcards is to discourage their use on busy trains.

That's oversimplified: the minimum fare (which is the only nationwide restriction) is (was) to discourage its use for (short-distance) commuting, and therefore protect revenue. The morning restrictions on other cards principally have the same effect (A minimum fare only in NSE-land would have to be set quite high!)

Better to have a flag up "this ticket will not be valid if you use it when your railcard discount does not apply" so that people don't chance it and get caught!

 

[Trainbike46]

Aren't there certain routes that don't have non-anytime tickets at all.
E.g. https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WGN&dest=WTH&period=20230703 which I discovered by accident (also 5 days outwards validity? Very odd ticket.)

There's quite a few places where there's only an anytime fare

Also, I think, all of Merseyrail. Merseyrail would be a problem but outside there would relabelling anytime-only flows as off-peak-only cause any problems?

That's potentially more confusing though; If I, and most passengers I suspect, see a ticket listed as off-peak, I would assume there are trains that it wouldn't be valid on, so that could lead to confusion as to whether off-peak tickets are in fact valid at any time.

A separate problem is that currently there are a lot of routes where the discounted anytime fare would cost more than the minimum fare in place on many railcards, so you would be creating a massive price increase for people currently using railcards on anytime fares that are £12 or more (after the 1/3 discount)

 

[Mikey C]

That's oversimplified: the minimum fare (which is the only nationwide restriction) is (was) to discourage its use for (short-distance) commuting, and therefore protect revenue. The morning restrictions on other cards principally have the same effect (A minimum fare only in NSE-land would have to be set quite high!)

Better to have a flag up "this ticket will not be valid if you use it when your railcard discount does not apply" so that people don't chance it and get caught!

It's a bit irritating (as a Network Card holder) that the rules don't differentiate between travelling into London (which the vast majority of commuters will be doing) and travelling out of London, which is likely to be leisure travel, of the sort to be encouraged.

 

[JonathanH]

It's a bit irritating (as a Network Card holder) that the rules don't differentiate between travelling into London (which the vast majority of commuters will be doing) and travelling out of London, which is likely to be leisure travel, of the sort to be encouraged.

There is already a 'discount' for all travelling out of London in the morning peak to many former NSE destinations beyond a certain distance from London without a railcard.

For example, an Anytime Day Return from London to Salisbury is £49.90, while an Anytime Day Return from Salisbury to London is £93.20. Admittedly not the stuff of cheap leisure travel, but still a 'discount' of sorts.

 

[infobleep]

There is already a 'discount' for all travelling out of London in the morning peak to many former NSE destinations beyond a certain distance from London without a railcard.

Indeed. Back in the noughties I was for a time travelling south from Guildford to another station 5 days a week.

A ticket sales clerk said why don't I buy a season ticket. To which I replied, buying this ticket each day for 365 days a year would be cheaper than a season ticket.

I did have a 16-25 discount but it may have even applied without that.