Changes to SWR Super Offpeak tickets from September

[Kite159]

Someone mentioned this on Twitter this morning and it sounds like they are changing the times the Super Offpeak fares are valid and changing the name of the fares to make things "Simpler"

Super Off-Peak tickets are changing
We're working on making train fares simpler, so you'll see some changes to our Super Off-Peak tickets from 5 September. Our new Evening Out and Sunday Out tickets will replace Super Off-Peak tickets on shorter journeys, and we'll be making the Super Off-Peak ticket better value for long-distance journeys by making them valid for return journeys taken up to 30 days after you travel out - making weekends away even simpler.

Super Off-Peak Train Tickets & Times | South Western Railway

On a budget and prefer travelling at quieter times of the day? Super Off-Peak tickets are a great way to save money. Learn more about Super Off-Peak here.

www.southwesternrailway.com

No doubt the new "Evening out" & "Sunday out" tickets will work out more expensive, that assuming they don't pre-cancel the trains to get out of paying delay repay when faced with a 2 hour gap in services

 

[JonathanH]

No doubt the new "Evening out" & "Sunday out" tickets will work out more expensive, that assuming they don't pre-cancel the trains to get out of paying delay repay when faced with a 2 hour gap in services

Could this be about removing the confusing early Saturday provision so that off-peak tickets are needed other than in the evening and on Sunday? Having a higher price for a band of time on a Saturday and lower fares in between is somewhat confusing.

 

[Snow1964]

I’m not entirely clear how adding new Evening out and Sunday out tickets whilst keeping super off peak for some longer journeys is simplification. Perhaps less rules but more ticket choice is simplification!

Didn’t there used to be day returns and monthly returns (where return could be anytime within a month), which now seems to be replaced by a super off peak return where return is valid 30 days. (Why have 30 days instead of simpler 1 month)

So much easier in old days when it was single, return, off peak return and didn’t need to worry about split fares.

 

[davews]

I have only rarely been able to use a Super Off Peak. The requirement to leave after 11am and return after 7pm fits into very few of my trips to town. And the Saturday one has always struck me as a bit odd when there is not really any Saturday rush hour. Let's wait for the details but doubt whether it will be to our advantage.

 

[JonathanH]

I have only rarely been able to use a Super Off Peak. The requirement to leave after 11am and return after 7pm fits into very few of my trips to town. And the Saturday one has always struck me as a bit odd when there is not really any Saturday rush hour. Let's wait for the details but doubt whether it will be to our advantage.

There is a peak in Saturday travel which SWR define as the period of London arrivals between 0930 and 1200 and departures between 1600 and 1830. The super-off-peak tickets were an attempt to get more money from these passengers / spread the load. Similarly, they were trying to move people away from travelling before 1100 going away from London.

You can see what they were trying to do but it does make things complex.

The wording above suggests that Saturday will become off-peak all day to make things less complex and encourage people to travel on Sunday instead. Clearly, trains on Sunday may similarly be unable to cope with the load.

 

[bakerstreet]

I think this may be an additional restriction with SWR tickets. I’m pretty sure break of journey was fine before.

Super Off-Peak Train Tickets & Times | South Western Railway

On a budget and prefer travelling at quieter times of the day? Super Off-Peak tickets are a great way to save money. Learn more about Super Off-Peak here.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Can I break my journey with a Super Off-Peak ticket?​

Generally, no. You won't normally be allowed to break your journey with a super off-peak ticket. Some long-distance journeys, however, may mean that you can, and you should check the full restrictions on your ticket to see if you can or not.

Although I can’t see any mention here unless I’ve missed it or it’s been updated:

Ticket Restriction BE | National Rail

Ticket restriction details BE. Each train ticket restriction code states when and/or on what train(s) the ticket is not valid and the days and/or dates that these restrictions apply.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

I must say, although a journey planner will identify validity, the text of this restriction code seems rather complicated.

Is this DfT or SWR I wonder?

Effectively unless I’ve read this wrong - for example restriction BE - Monday to Fridays instead of being able to buy these cheaper tickets after 1100/for arrival after 1200, you now can’t until 1901.

(Edit - I was wrong! See posts below eg #30)

That’s quite some change.

And my memory is that these ‘cheaper’ super off peak tickets were not introduced as a discount.

They were priced at the former off peak (day) return fare, and that fare was increased by c. 20 per cent.

Happy to stand corrected on any of the above!

Thinking about it, I wonder if it’s income protection against flexible working when many businesses might now welcome employees to start and end later in the day but those people won’t now benefit from the super off peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a peak in Saturday travel which SWR define as the period of London arrivals between 0930 and 1200 and departures between 1600 and 1830. The super-off-peak tickets were an attempt to get more money from these passengers / spread the load. Similarly, they were trying to move people away from travelling before 1100 going away from London.

You can see what they were trying to do but it does make things complex.

The wording above suggests that Saturday will become off-peak all day to make things less complex and encourage people to travel on Sunday instead. Clearly, trains on Sunday may similarly be unable to cope with the load.

Not an awful lot of people go for an afternoon in London on a Saturday, so if the "evening out" variety is available on a Saturday then this will be less confusing, not more confusing.

It's rather an antithesis to the simplification, but to be honest I found "branded" tickets (stuff like Virgin's "The Weekender"*) more understandable than Super-Super-Super-Off-Peak type names, as it makes the use-case clear.

* Prior to the removal of Friday evening off peak restrictions this was a "spread the load" walk up fare a bit more expensive than the Saver, which allowed outward travel after the morning peak Friday and off peak return up to Monday end of day.

 

[Eboordna]

Tickets already available to buy on the SWR website for travel from 5th September with new prices and restrictions applied.

 

[Watershed]

I think this may be an additional restriction with SWR tickets. I’m pretty sure break of journey was fine before.



Although I can’t see any mention here unless I’ve missed it or it’s been updated:

I must say, although a journey planner will identify validity, the text of this restriction code seems rather complicated.

Is this DfT or SWR I wonder?

Effectively unless I’ve read this wrong - for example restriction BE - Monday to Fridays instead of being able to buy these cheaper tickets after 1100/for arrival after 1200, you now can’t until 1901.

That’s quite some change.

And my memory is that these ‘cheaper’ super off peak tickets were not introduced as a discount.

They were priced at the former off peak (day) return fare, and that fare was increased by c. 20 per cent.

Happy to stand corrected on any of the above!

Yes, you're quite right. As always, this is a fare increase being introduced by the back door, disguised as "simplification".

Now don't get me wrong, BE is currently a ridiculously complicated restriction, on a par with 9A et al. But that doesn't mean the solution is to make it more restrictive!

 

[JonathanH]

Not an awful lot of people go for an afternoon in London on a Saturday, so if the "evening out" variety is available on a Saturday then this will be less confusing, not more confusing.

That seems like a good reason to try and encourage people to do so then, while recognising that additional capacity on a Saturday morning is expensive to provide.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems like a good reason to try and encourage people to do so then, while recognising that additional capacity on a Saturday morning is expensive to provide.

To a point. There are journeys that even if they were free people wouldn't make. Saturday afternoons between lunchtime and about 1600 are a very quiet time on the railway generally, and there's little point in adding confusion to the fares structure to try to attract people to travel at a time that simply isn't attractive anyway.

At most, stick some cheap Advances on those trains, that at least isn't confusing.

 

[JonathanH]

So, let's look at an example. Basingstoke to Guildford is currently £15.90 Weekend super-off-peak day return and £20 off-peak day return.

On 4 September, it is £15.90 to leave Basingstoke between 0454 and 0830 and then again from 1130 onwards (driven by arrival times of the train at Waterloo), £20 during the intervening period
On 11 September, it is £20 all day.

That is clearly a fare increase but it ticks the simplification box. There doesn't appear to be an Evening or Sunday fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, let's look at an example. Basingstoke to Guildford is currently £15.90 Weekend super-off-peak day return and £20 off-peak day return.

On 4 September, it is £15.90 to leave Basingstoke between 0454 and 0830 and then again from 1130 onwards (driven by arrival times of the train at Waterloo), £20 during the intervening period
On 11 September, it is £20 all day.

That is clearly a fare increase but it ticks the simplification box. There doesn't appear to be an Evening or Sunday fare.

Are the latter perhaps for London only?

If we considered that for London, though, most people would pay the extra fiver for a full day in the capital, or would only want to go for an evening out.

 

[JonathanH]

If we considered that for London, though, most people would pay the extra fiver for a full day in the capital, or would only want to go for an evening out.

Indeed, a stealth fare rise that has been implemented in two steps.

 

[Watershed]

Indeed, a stealth fare rise that has been implemented in two steps.

Awfully convenient how SWR's dictionary defines "simplification" as "introducing yet more fare types and increasing restrictions".

 

[JonathanH]

Awfully convenient how SWR's dictionary defines "simplification" as "introducing yet more fare types and increasing restrictions".

Yes, looking at longer distance travel, there is quite a push to their 'semi-flex' return that is unique to them.

All getting very complicated (but presumably they are trying to manage the finite capacity of their 444s on the Bournemouth route and weekend overcrowding).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, a stealth fare rise that has been implemented in two steps.

That hardly anyone wants to go to London on a Saturday afternoon and would willingly pay the fare to go in the morning is hardly a stealth fare rise. Hardly anyone will do that journey. If you're going to London, you want to either go for the full day or for the evening.

It's a stealth fare rise for enthusiasts who chase cheap fares for trips for the sake of it, really. There are a lot of those here, but not enough of them for railways to give much consideration to them in designing fare structures, give or take Rover/Ranger tickets which basically exist for enthusiasts.

 

[JonathanH]

That hardly anyone wants to go to London on a Saturday afternoon and would willingly pay the fare to go in the morning is hardly a stealth fare rise. Hardly anyone will do that journey. If you're going to London, you want to either go for the full day or for the evening.

Yes, but it used to be possible to get a cheaper fare to arrive before 0930 and what has been the super off peak day return is priced at around the level of the old off-peak day return.

Woking weekend day travelcard restrictions

I bought a Super Off Peak day travelcard from Woking ticket office yesterday and the staff said that I could not use it to come back before 6:30pm. This seems surprising for a weekend. I then played with the ticket machine to find out more and it seems that this restriction only applies from...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Eboordna]

So, let's look at an example. Basingstoke to Guildford is currently £15.90 Weekend super-off-peak day return and £20 off-peak day return.

On 4 September, it is £15.90 to leave Basingstoke between 0454 and 0830 and then again from 1130 onwards (driven by arrival times of the train at Waterloo), £20 during the intervening period
On 11 September, it is £20 all day.

That is clearly a fare increase but it ticks the simplification box. There doesn't appear to be an Evening or Sunday fare.

Not sure where you're seeing this. Just done a search on the SWR website for your journey, it's £15 day return for any departure after 12:00.

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure where you're seeing this. Just done a search on the SWR website for your journey, it's £15 day return for any departure after 12:00.View attachment 101273

Ah, not showing up on the GWR ticket website yet where I was looking.

 

[FenMan]

Some of the new tickets are cheaper than those they replace, with only a slight tweak to the restrictions.

Camberley - Aldershot day return on a Saturday
- 4 Sep, valid after 11am: £4.80
- 11 Sep, valid after midday: £4.50

The Off Peak Day Return ticket is £5.70

 

[Kite159]

I've been having a play from Basingstoke to London Zones 1-6 (my usual split). From the looks of things the "Weekend Super Off-peak" travelcard is gone (Was £18.30) so the options are either a "Via Woking" travelcard at £21.35 or an "Any Permitted" travelcard at £21.05 [which I believe is priced by GWR]

Evening Out Travelcard (Valid on arrivals into London after 2pm it seems) is £17.80 so a small 50p saving if you are only having the afternoon/evening in London

[All fares with Railcard from the SWR website]

---------

I might actually be able to save money with the new Super Off-Peak Return from Grateley as that is priced at £23.10 compared to £28.90 for the off-peak return for London Terminals, useful when I head up to London on the 17:59 service

 

[Starmill]

It makes a lot of sense to remove the restrictions on Sundays, and to expand Super Off Peak Returns. It's always been very odd that there's a Super Off Peak Return to Bath on SWR, but not to somewhere like Axminster.

Technically journeys on Sundays have become much better value as they've widely been rounded down.

 

[43096]

Indeed, a stealth fare rise that has been implemented in two steps.

No surprise at all with SWR. Just means I use the train less and less.

 

[infobleep]

Yes, looking at longer distance travel, there is quite a push to their 'semi-flex' return that is unique to them.

All getting very complicated (but presumably they are trying to manage the finite capacity of their 444s on the Bournemouth route and weekend overcrowding).

If they are looking to cut services, how can there be overcrowding?

Also, if someone is going to London for an evening out, they may need to be there before 7 pm in order to get to their destination on time. Quite a few concerts start at 7:30 pm. All one needs is a train delay.

I just out in Guildford to Waterloo for Friday 3rd September. 13:49 service, returning on 20:45. The price is £17.60

On Monday 6th September the price for the same set of journeys is £17.00.

This is in the National Rail Enquiries app, where it says the tickets are off-peak. Until you go to the ticker buying section, where it correctly claims they are super off peak.

So the price is lower on that route at least and during the afternoon.

The off peak price is £22.50 both days.

 

[30907]

Also, if someone is going to London for an evening out, they may need to be there before 7 pm in order to get to their destination on time. Quite a few concerts start at 7:30 pm. All one needs is a train delay.

They seem to have that covered:

www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/ticket-types/evening-out-tickets

If you’re travelling into London, it’s valid on any train that arrives into a London Terminals station after 14:00 and you can return on any train after 19:00 (or after 19:05 from Vauxhall and 19:10 from Clapham Junction).

If you’re heading out of London, it’s valid on any train after 12:00 (except during our evening peak, after 15:59 and before 19:01 from Waterloo, 19:05 from Vauxhall and 19:10 from Clapham Junction). You can return at any time.

For all other journeys you can travel at any time after 12:00.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If they are looking to cut services, how can there be overcrowding?

No proposals by SWR to cut the Bournemouth fast/semi-fast trains.

 

[infobleep]

They seem to have that covered:

www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/ticket-types/evening-out-tickets

I was referring to the below post but this relates to restriction BE, so perhaps I was wrong.

Effectively unless I’ve read this wrong - for example restriction BE - Monday to Fridays instead of being able to buy these cheaper tickets after 1100/for arrival after 1200, you now can’t until 1901.

That’s quite some change.

No proposals by SWR to cut the Bournemouth fast/semi-fast trains.

I was referring across South Western Railway but of course, they are referring to that route and not more widely. So my point is possibly not relevant.

That route must be having good passenger numbers compared to the others if it has kept its level of service.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That route must be having good passenger numbers compared to the others if it has kept its level of service.

Bournemouth has a considerable amount of leisure traffic being a popular seaside town and passenger numbers are steady compared to pre-covid.

The Portsmouth Direct however is said to have the slowest recovery of any route in terms of passenger numbers South of the River which presumably accounts for why it’s proposed that route won’t return to a pre-covid level of service.

 

[30907]

I was referring to the below post but this relates to restriction BE, so perhaps I was wrong.

The 1901 referred to by bakerstreet is quite clearly (on the site they linked) for the return journey, the outward says "arrive after 1200"

This is the relevant NRE text for outward:

Evening Out tickets for travel on/after 5 September 2021:

Not valid on trains timed to arrive into London Terminals after 04:29 and before 12:00.

and return:

Evening Out tickets for travel on/after 5 September 2021:

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:30 and before 19:01.

In addition, not valid on trains timed to depart:

• Vauxhall: after 15:59 and before 19:05
• Waterloo: after 15:59 and before 19:01

(the info re Waterloo seems redundant unless I've missed something)

Evening Out Travelcards are valid at any time where journeys are wholly within London Zones 1-6.