Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[LOL The Irony]

Aside from the part involvement of Trentbarton, aren't High Peak and D&G run by the same person at the top ?

The majority was under Bowers, who did a very good job of running services in the town.

 

[markymark2000]

Aside from the part involvement of Trentbarton, aren't High Peak and D&G run by the same person at the top ?

High Peak are ran 50% by Centrebus and 50% by Wellglade Group. Centrebus do own D&G and the CEO of the Centrebus Group is Julian Peddle.

 

[33117]

So with Cheshire West, how do people feel the new Arriva routes are working out?

Northwich town locals are a bit of a drag but suppose combining the routes they did made sense.

The 31 not serving Moulton village annoyed a few folk but nobody's moaned a ton (yet!)

With regards to Arriva Winsford, are they keeping the E400 deckers or are these actually just loans which was rumoured?

 

[markymark2000]

So with cheshire west, how do people feel the new arriva routes are working out?????

Northwich town locals are a bit of a drag but suppose combining the routes they did made sense.

The 31 not serving moulton village annoyed a few folk but nobody's moaned a ton (yet!)

With regards arriva winsford are they keeping the E400 deckers or are these actually just loans which was rumoured..

The Northwich stuff makes sense. The 4 may seem like a drag but hopefully if the NIMBYs sort themselves out and permit bus stop flags to go up in the housing estate, that will generate some usage. Also I can see it feeling a drag for people of Leftwich going to Northwich.


Otherwise, I think the Winsford routes are ok but need changing so that the '31W' is just a '31'. The 37s I would change so that it ran as per it did originally with the 37 Northwich to Sandbach then the other one Winsford to Crewe. This would improve the route length I think which should improve the interworking and reduce potential delays. The only down side is they couldn't then use the minibuses on the route. This would basically mean that the bus did 31 Winsford - Crewe - Winsford, 37 Winsford - Crewe - Winsford. The other circuit then being 31 Northwich - Crewe - Northwich, 37 Northwich - Sandbach - Northwich. Still using 8 buses overall but it's then split as 4 buses on each circuit (currently it's 5 on the 31/37 and 3 on the 31W/37W). I'd say it improves the overall services too but that's just me.


As for the 7A/7C, I think they are a mess. I wish something could be done but I can't see it. I think the best course of action though would be for them both to do the Depot - Winsford Rail Station then the A goes up to Wharton and C does normal. Then on the way back, the C does Wharton then goes to the rail station. This then gives people more links to the rail station which has potential to thrive.
A possible option but I doubt it would be taken on would be extend the 'shorts' to cover either side of the circular but It would be a strange link and not sure if it would be used. Something certainly should be done as they aren't the best and a lot of people I think are upset about the connections.

 

[northwichcat]

The majority was under Bowers, who did a very good job of running services in the town.

Yet High Peak was the operator who registered a commercial 27 service operating every 90 minutes, thus preventing a new tender for a hourly contracted service being awarded. They also withdrew the Queensway extension from the 300 route.

The reason the 300 daytime transferred to D&G was because High Peak thought it was commercially viable but they felt Knutsford was too far from their depot once they no longer ran the 27. D&G and High Peak do share commercial information between and don't bid against each other for tendering.

Otherwise, I think the Winsford routes are ok but need changing so that the '31W' is just a '31'.

I'm not sure of the reason for the W on the route numbers. I would guess it's to make it quicker to spot whether it's a service that terminates at Winsford or one that continues beyond Winsford. Route numbers are usually much bigger on destination displays than the actual destination.

The 4 may seem like a drag but hopefully if the NIMBYs sort themselves out and permit bus stop flags to go up in the housing estate

Are you sure this is down to the residents and not the council? There's numerous roads in both Cheshire West and Cheshire East that lost their bus route years ago and the bus stops remain, while no new stops have been erected on residential roads that now get a bus service, which didn't in the 90s. When I enquired about this I was told it's not Cheshire East policy to remove disused bus stops as they could come back in to use in a matter of weeks if an operator was to register a new commercial service. On the other hand there's limited funds for new official bus stops. They are no longer just permitted to add a sign to an existing lamppost. They need to raise the kerb, ensure there's a suitable crossing point nearby with a tactile surface, paint bus stop markings on the road and apply an order to prohibit parking where it would obstruct use of the bus stop.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yet High Peak was the operator who registered a commercial 27 service operating every 90 minutes

Yes, High Peak.

 

[Shauny]

I'd just have:
37B - Crewe to Winsford
37A - Sandbach to Northwich

That way:
- Crewe are still getting 2 Arriva buses an hour to Sandbach. (37A, 38)
- Sandbach still have 2 Arriva buses an hour to Winsford. (37A, 37B)
- Winsford then have 3 Arriva buses an hour to Northwich. (31, 37A, 37B)
- Sandbach gain back their hourly bus to Northwich. (37A) No need to change and miss losing a connection at Winsford.
- Middlewich still get their half-hourly Arriva services. (37A, 37B)

As for the 31, 31W. I agree that the 31W should just be renamed to 31. Unless their is a change in route, there is no need for it, it just creates confusion for everyone.
You didn't see the hourly part-working 130 to Wilmslow be called the 130W or the part-working morning 38 to Congleton called the 38C did you?
It also doesn't roll of the tongue very well 'thirty-one-double-you' Sounds like some 90's sci-fi movie.

I think its just the case of Arriva saying they run two services when its literally just a shortened version of the other.

 

[markymark2000]

I'd just have:
37B - Crewe to Winsford
37A - Sandbach to Northwich

That way:
- Crewe are still getting 2 Arriva buses an hour to Sandbach. (37B,38)
- Sandbach still have 2 Arriva buses an hour to Winsford. (37A, 37B)
- Winsford still have 2 Arriva buses an hour to Northwich. (37, 37A)
- Sandbach gain back their hourly bus to Northwich. (37A) No need to change and miss losing a connection at Winsford.

You could maybe just run the 31/37 standalone but that requires more changes overall. I get the impression that they wanted the routes interworking for a reason.

 

[Martin1988]

I had a few days last week in the Crewe area. For anyone interested I did the following routes:

Wednesday 9th February:
Flixbus 023 Birmingham to Chester (worked by Ridleys Coaches)
Arriva 84 Chester to Crewe
Arriva 6 Crewe to Leighton and back
First Potteries 3 Crewe to Haslington
Arriva 38 Haslington to Crewe

Thursday 10th Februray
Arriva 37 Crewe to Northwich
Arriva 31 Crewe to Leighton(worked by the same vehicle as the 37)
D&G 317 Leighton to Alsager
D&G 317 Alsager to Sandbach
D&G 38 Sandbach to Congleton
D&G 94 Congleton to Biddulph and return
D&G 42 Congleton to Crewe
Arriva 37 Crewe to Haslington
Arriva 38 Haslington to Macclesfield and return then Haslington to Crewe

Friday 11th February
First Potteries Service 3 Crewe to Hanley.

On the whole I really enjoyed myself although the 84, 37 and 38 were all much quieter than I expected, even just after 9AM when passholders normally start heading out.

I did have a few niggles though:

I ended up having an extended stop over at Leighton Hospital due to the driver on the 6 that I rode there heading off out of service rather than returning in service angering a group of waiting passengers (hospital staff returning home at the end of their shifts) who spent the time moaning about how this happens regularly. When the next bus did arrive (a Mellor Strata) it was of course really packed but thankfully it was only a short journey.

The 42 journey I caught was the one that leaves Congleton around 1515. Was a nice and peaceful ride until we reached Holmes Chappel where a load of school kids packed out the bus. The vehicle was an Enviro 2000 and totally inadequate for the number of passengers using it and to be honest I felt a bit uncomfortable being on there with so many school passengers.

My plan on arriving in Alsager on the 317 was to catch the 3 to Haslington then a 37/8 to Sandbach but aparrantley a single from Alsager to Haslington is over £5.00.

The Mellor Srata minibuses on the 38.

Heading home on the 3 on Friday, the bus (a streetlite) started off quite lightly loaded but got more and more busier the nearer we got to Hanley. I was sat right at the back which turned out to be a smart moove as during the journey several shopping trolley and buggy users got on along with a number of elderly passengers meaning it was really packed at the front.

On the whole I enjoyed myself and it was encouraging to see people using the buses in greater numbers than on my last trip. One thought I do have though is that it would make the world of difference if Arriva and D&G accepted each other's tickets on the Crewe to Leighton and Crewe to Macclesfield routes (plus First Potteries on Service 3 between Crewe and Haslington) as that might encourage more people to use buses by providing greater journey flexibility.

If anyone is able to answer I would be interested to find out the following:

On the 31/31W are the vehicle allocations always the same at certain times or is it random as to whether a particular journey gets a decker one day or a Mellor Srata the next?

Is the use of the Mellor Stratas on the evening 31W and 38 journeys a fuel saving exercise?

If it is known that the mid afternoon journey on the 42 will fill up with school passengers at a certain point why is a separate service not operated for school passengers or alternatively why don't D&G use bigger vehicles (could a decker even realistically be used on this route)?

Would the 42 journey I went on have been restricted to school passengers only during the period of Covid restrictions?

On the 3 journey I went on most passengers who boarded in Crewe or Haslington got off in Alsager with only 1 other passenger beside me going all the way to Hanley. Then as mentioned above the 3 filled up between Kidsgrove/Tunstall and Burslem. Is that a common occurence on this route and if so shouldn't First address this by running more journeys?

 

[northwichcat]

The 42 journey I caught was the one that leaves Congleton around 1515. Was a nice and peaceful ride until we reached Holmes Chappel where a load of school kids packed out the bus. The vehicle was an Enviro 2000 and totally inadequate for the number of passengers using it and to be honest I felt a bit uncomfortable being on there with so many school passengers.

D&G have far too many of those 26/28 seater Enviro 200s compared to the number of routes which they are suitable for. If they operated services with higher frequencies it might be a different matter.

Didn't the 42 used to have GHA Gold 35 seater Enviros, like the 88?

 

[LOL The Irony]

D&G have far too many of those 26/28 seater Enviro 200s compared to the number of routes which they are suitable for. If they operated services with higher frequencies it might be a different matter.

This will never happen though. Those small Enviros and Solos are cheaper to operate and they already have them, so why change from the current malaise? When d&g took over the 88, for the short period when Cheshire East were watching, they had what looked like 12 metre MCV Evolutions, before switching to those full length Solo SRs. Once Wincham came into being, these slowly disappeared back to Crewe and we got stuck with the current dogma.

 

[northwichcat]

When d&g took over the 88, for the short period when Cheshire East were watching, they had what looked like 12 metre MCV Evolutions, before switching to those full length Solo SRs.

That wasn't the case. The 13 reg Solo SRs had been acquired using Cheshire East council funding and the WiFi system on board was a Cheshire East system. They had originally been acquired for the onelink and 8 services in Crewe but Cheshire East permitted them to be transferred to the 88 to provide a similar standard of vehicle to the GHA Gold Enviros that had previously been used on the route. The onelink had also been cutback, so no longer required as many vehicles. The SRs were full length with 35 seats and there were 6 of them, with the route requiring 5 vehicles. Initially if only 4 were available D&G sent up one of their 2 Evolutions. These had 36 seats but higher total capacity from the extra length providing more standing space. They also had fewer fold down seats than the SRs. Over time the Evolutions stopped coming up as cover vehicles and the 33 seater Streetlites became the regular cover vehicles. It was also normal for the 300 to be operated by a Streetlite. Then the Solo SRs disappeared from Wincham and the Streetlites became the regular vehicles on the 88 until the new contract got awarded.

The only reason some of the Enviro 200s have 26 seats, rather than 28, is because they have fewer fold down seats fitted. It would be easy for D&G to fit two extra fold down seats to make them 28 seaters. One of the drivers said they had been pushing for these (the 2009 registration examples) to be refreshed due to the original First Bus purple moquette being worn out but the manager said that would be spending money they don't need to. Even Arriva replace seat moquette on buses that are over 10 years old.

 

[Shauny]

Even Arriva replace seat moquette on buses that are over 10 years old.

Arriva didn't on MX09 LXW (2951).

 

[RELL6L]

I had a few days last week in the Crewe area. For anyone interested I did the following routes:

Wednesday 9th February:
Flixbus 023 Birmingham to Chester (worked by Ridleys Coaches)
Arriva 84 Chester to Crewe
Arriva 6 Crewe to Leighton and back
First Potteries 3 Crewe to Haslington
Arriva 38 Haslington to Crewe

Thursday 10th Februray
Arriva 37 Crewe to Northwich
Arriva 31 Crewe to Leighton(worked by the same vehicle as the 37)
D&G 317 Leighton to Alsager
D&G 317 Alsager to Sandbach
D&G 38 Sandbach to Congleton
D&G 94 Congleton to Biddulph and return
D&G 42 Congleton to Crewe
Arriva 37 Crewe to Haslington
Arriva 38 Haslington to Macclesfield and return then Haslington to Crewe

Friday 11th February
First Potteries Service 3 Crewe to Hanley.

On the whole I really enjoyed myself although the 84, 37 and 38 were all much quieter than I expected, even just after 9AM when passholders normally start heading out.

I did have a few niggles though:

I ended up having an extended stop over at Leighton Hospital due to the driver on the 6 that I rode there heading off out of service rather than returning in service angering a group of waiting passengers (hospital staff returning home at the end of their shifts) who spent the time moaning about how this happens regularly. When the next bus did arrive (a Mellor Strata) it was of course really packed but thankfully it was only a short journey.

The 42 journey I caught was the one that leaves Congleton around 1515. Was a nice and peaceful ride until we reached Holmes Chappel where a load of school kids packed out the bus. The vehicle was an Enviro 2000 and totally inadequate for the number of passengers using it and to be honest I felt a bit uncomfortable being on there with so many school passengers.

My plan on arriving in Alsager on the 317 was to catch the 3 to Haslington then a 37/8 to Sandbach but aparrantley a single from Alsager to Haslington is over £5.00.

The Mellor Srata minibuses on the 38.

Heading home on the 3 on Friday, the bus (a streetlite) started off quite lightly loaded but got more and more busier the nearer we got to Hanley. I was sat right at the back which turned out to be a smart moove as during the journey several shopping trolley and buggy users got on along with a number of elderly passengers meaning it was really packed at the front.

On the whole I enjoyed myself and it was encouraging to see people using the buses in greater numbers than on my last trip. One thought I do have though is that it would make the world of difference if Arriva and D&G accepted each other's tickets on the Crewe to Leighton and Crewe to Macclesfield routes (plus First Potteries on Service 3 between Crewe and Haslington) as that might encourage more people to use buses by providing greater journey flexibility.

If anyone is able to answer I would be interested to find out the following:

On the 31/31W are the vehicle allocations always the same at certain times or is it random as to whether a particular journey gets a decker one day or a Mellor Srata the next?

Is the use of the Mellor Stratas on the evening 31W and 38 journeys a fuel saving exercise?

If it is known that the mid afternoon journey on the 42 will fill up with school passengers at a certain point why is a separate service not operated for school passengers or alternatively why don't D&G use bigger vehicles (could a decker even realistically be used on this route)?

Would the 42 journey I went on have been restricted to school passengers only during the period of Covid restrictions?

On the 3 journey I went on most passengers who boarded in Crewe or Haslington got off in Alsager with only 1 other passenger beside me going all the way to Hanley. Then as mentioned above the 3 filled up between Kidsgrove/Tunstall and Burslem. Is that a common occurence on this route and if so shouldn't First address this by running more journeys?

Thanks for reporting this trip. I can't comment much on your questions as I have not been there much although I do plan to. I can say that the 3 from Crewe to Hanley does have extra journeys from Kidsgrove onwards (3A) and there used to be more still from Tunstall and Burslem. Now there really is only one bus every 15 minutes on this stretch - a far cry from the Potteries 'Main Line' and even when I visited the area in October 2020 it was every 5 minutes from Tunstall into Hanley in the morning peak.

The 31/31W/37/37W seem to have a wide variety of vehicles and I had never looked to see if this was because particular journeys needed deckers for schools or not. It seems to be more random - looking at the 31W 10.36 journey to Crewe last week it was:
Monday - Mellor Strata
Tuesday - decker
Wednesday - Cadet
Thursday - decker
Friday - Pulsar
two deckers, but if a decker is required for something on that board how come it was a Mellor Strata on Monday?

The 84 seems to generally have a majority of deckers, at least on the Chester boards - not always though, today one is a Pulsar. And they seem to have disappeared from the 38 altogether, with 3 evening journeys on the 38 regularly operated by the Mellor Stratas.

 

[cnjb8]

That wasn't the case. The 13 reg Solo SRs had been acquired using Cheshire East council funding and the WiFi system on board was a Cheshire East system. They had originally been acquired for the onelink and 8 services in Crewe but Cheshire East permitted them to be transferred to the 88 to provide a similar standard of vehicle to the GHA Gold Enviros that had previously been used on the route. The onelink had also been cutback, so no longer required as many vehicles. The SRs were full length with 35 seats and there were 6 of them, with the route requiring 5 vehicles. Initially if only 4 were available D&G sent up one of their 2 Evolutions. These had 36 seats but higher total capacity from the extra length providing more standing space. They also had fewer fold down seats than the SRs. Over time the Evolutions stopped coming up as cover vehicles and the 33 seater Streetlites became the regular cover vehicles. It was also normal for the 300 to be operated by a Streetlite. Then the Solo SRs disappeared from Wincham and the Streetlites became the regular vehicles on the 88 until the new contract got awarded.

The only reason some of the Enviro 200s have 26 seats, rather than 28, is because they have fewer fold down seats fitted. It would be easy for D&G to fit two extra fold down seats to make them 28 seaters. One of the drivers said they had been pushing for these (the 2009 registration examples) to be refreshed due to the original First Bus purple moquette being worn out but the manager said that would be spending money they don't need to. Even Arriva replace seat moquette on buses that are over 10 years old.

D&G probably don’t replace seat covers for the same reason as they run Solos and mini E200s, it’s cheaper.

 

[sonic2009]

Thanks for reporting this trip. I can't comment much on your questions as I have not been there much although I do plan to. I can say that the 3 from Crewe to Hanley does have extra journeys from Kidsgrove onwards (3A) and there used to be more still from Tunstall and Burslem. Now there really is only one bus every 15 minutes on this stretch - a far cry from the Potteries 'Main Line' and even when I visited the area in October 2020 it was every 5 minutes from Tunstall into Hanley in the morning peak.

The 31/31W/37/37W seem to have a wide variety of vehicles and I had never looked to see if this was because particular journeys needed deckers for schools or not. It seems to be more random - looking at the 31W 10.36 journey to Crewe last week it was:
Monday - Mellor Strata
Tuesday - decker
Wednesday - Cadet
Thursday - decker
Friday - Pulsar
two deckers, but if a decker is required for something on that board how come it was a Mellor Strata on Monday?

The 84 seems to generally have a majority of deckers, at least on the Chester boards - not always though, today one is a Pulsar. And they seem to have disappeared from the 38 altogether, with 3 evening journeys on the 38 regularly operated by the Mellor Stratas.

38 Crewe - Macclesfield later services are usually operated by 1 or 2 of the Mellor Stratas off the back of them doing 6 and 6E in Crewe and then working onto the 38

 

[Shauny]

There are two Mellor Strata's on the 38 tonight. 4706 having done 6's and 6E's and the other, 4704 having done 7A's until 2pm and two short 84 trips.

 

[Shauny]

Any idea why there’s a Stagecoach Manchester decker in Crewe?

 

[northwichcat]

Any idea why there’s a Stagecoach Manchester decker in Crewe?

It's in Chorlton working a normal Stagecoach route. There's a bug with the map. Did you notice the other vehicle displaying as being in the Atlantic Ocean?

 

[Shauny]

It's in Chorlton working a normal Stagecoach route. There's a bug with the map. Did you notice the other vehicle displaying as being in the Atlantic Ocean?

I saw that before. I wouldn’t mind if the Crewe bug was the case though. Would be nice to have some electric E400’s in Cheshire, instead of those old “Sapphire” ones.

Noticed that on bustimes.org, D&G now have a ticket tab. https://bustimes.org/operators/d-g-coach-bus/tickets

I'm not sure if this is on any other operators.

 

[markymark2000]

I saw that before. I wouldn’t mind if the Crewe bug was the case though. Would be nice to have some electric E400’s in Cheshire, instead of those old “Sapphire” ones.

Noticed that on bustimes.org, D&G now have a ticket tab. https://bustimes.org/operators/d-g-coach-bus/tickets

I'm not sure if this is on any other operators.

All operators who sell tickets through MyTrip have that tab.

 

[Shauny]

All operators who sell tickets through MyTrip have that tab.

Alright thanks.

D&G just keep getting better and better!

 

[markymark2000]

Alright thanks.

D&G just keep getting better and better!

D&G have had mobile ticketing with them for a while.

 

[northwichcat]

Alright thanks.

D&G just keep getting better and better!

There's no incentive to buy a day or weekly ticket in the app with D&G, unlike with Warrington's Own Buses.

 

[Shauny]

First day of the buses being diverted in Bollington. It seems on the map on www.bustimes.org, the 10 terminated at the stop before the Cotton Tree, and the 391/392 decided to break road laws and rag it down the Middlewood Way and then make a dramatic left turn at Wood Green.

 

[northwichcat]

and the 391/392 decided to break road laws and rag it down the Middlewood Way and then make a dramatic left turn at Wood Green.

If you saying you saw buses travelling along a disused railway viaduct that's been converted in to a bridleway you should be reporting it to the police, not posting it on here.

If you're saying the tracking appears to show a bus travelling somewhere it shouldn't then it's probably wrong. I've seen it showing vehicles travelling along rivers and bulldozing through houses before, especially when it's been diverted along a route which isn't usually served by buses.

 

[Shauny]

If you saying you saw buses travelling along a disused railway viaduct that's been converted in to a bridleway you should be reporting it to the police, not posting it on here.

If you're saying the tracking appears to show a bus travelling somewhere it shouldn't then it's probably wrong. I've seen it showing vehicles travelling along rivers and bulldozing through houses before, especially when it's been diverted along a route which isn't usually served by buses.

Like I stated, I saw this on www.bustimes.org map. It isn't the most accurate of maps. Half of Cheshire would be destroyed by now if that map was 100% accurate.

 

[markymark2000]

Like I stated, I saw this on www.bustimes.org map. It isn't the most accurate of maps. Half of Cheshire would be destroyed by now if that map was 100% accurate.

Care to prove where this was happening?


Also, bus times is often correct, it's the users interpretation of the data and often assuming which is incorrect. That and/or the ticket machine data which is incorrect. Bustimes only shows the data that the bus operators send out.

 

[northwichcat]

Like I stated, I saw this on www.bustimes.org map. It isn't the most accurate of maps. Half of Cheshire would be destroyed by now if that map was 100% accurate.

Also, bus times is often correct, it's the users interpretation of the data and often assuming which is incorrect. That and/or the ticket machine data which is incorrect. Bustimes only shows the data that the bus operators send out.

GPS can be a few metres out, especially when the device is inside or there are lots of buildings around. People using Google or Apple maps to get around a city on foot frequently get silly instructions, like to walk in to a wall or to walk the two shorter sides of a triangle to get from A to B, rather than one long side.

With bus times it seems the vehicles usually report their location every 2-5 minutes and then the reporting points are joined with straight lines.

Here's an example of one that doesn't look good on the 89 route. Each of the tracking points on the road but the lines joining them makes it look like the bus drove across a field and went down the M6 embankment and across the motorway, instead of using the bridge.

32 - SL64 JGU

ADL Enviro200

bustimes.org

 

[markymark2000]

All of the '>' arrows are where the bus actually tracks.

The line inbetween links them and the little black dots are the 'whole minute' times. From Tesco to entering Lostock Gralam for example the dots represent 09:54, 09:55, 09:56, 09:57 and 09:58 with the next tracking point being 09:58:02