Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Martin1988]

Thanks for this really interesting information

 

[Shauny]

When D&G started covering the 19 at the start of last month, I saw D&G Optare Solo 50 pulled into Macclesfield Bus Station, so I got on the bus to ask the driver "For future reference, Can I use my D&G weekly ticket on here?" and the driver replied with "You can use what you want, you can bring chickens for all I care." So makes me wonder if they were letting on passengers for free.

 

[northwichcat]

Cheshire Show shuttle buses have been revised this year. So as well as services from Hartford station and Knutsford station to the showground, they'll be a bus from Altrincham Interchange but the Altrincham one will be the least frequent of the three.

https://www.royalcheshireshow.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Shuttle-bus.pdf

When D&G started covering the 19 at the start of last month, I saw D&G Optare Solo 50 pulled into Macclesfield Bus Station, so I got on the bus to ask the driver "For future reference, Can I use my D&G weekly ticket on here?" and the driver replied with "You can use what you want, you can bring chickens for all I care." So makes me wonder if they were letting on passengers for free.

But have you seen a D&G bus on the 19 this week? The information from High Peak (in an earlier post) suggests they've taken the service back and are running it to a reduced frequency.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Cheshire Show shuttle buses have been revised this year. So as well as services from Hartford station and Knutsford station to the showground, they'll be a bus from Altrincham Interchange but the Altrincham one will be the least frequent of the three.

Would the Altrincham bus be for those using Metrolink? Surely a bus from Wilmslow would make more sense though? Bit of a strange choice tbh.

 

[SeanM1997]

With Arriva dropping frequencies on the 31W/37W - do you think D&G will pick up some of these to maintain a half-hourly Crewe-Leighton Hospital-Winsford service?

Crewe always seems to be in a poor position regarding bus services - it is at the southern extremity for Arriva North West and northern extremity for First Potteries. As Crewe doesn't have one main provider, it appears the current system is a hindrance for patronage as there are too many operators with too many tickets which cannot be accepted, which reduces the amount of potential passengers.

 

[northwichcat]

Would the Altrincham bus be for those using Metrolink? Surely a bus from Wilmslow would make more sense though? Bit of a strange choice tbh.

It looks like the Altrincham shuttle will be a single bus. If they were to extend Knutsford journeys to Wilmslow you'd still need an extra bus.

Altrincham also has regular buses to Lymm and Warrington. The very limited 47 service would be OK for getting to the show but no good for getting home afterwards. The RHS also run a shuttle for the flower show to Manchester Airport via Altrincham.

 

[Simon75]

With Arriva dropping frequencies on the 31W/37W - do you think D&G will pick up some of these to maintain a half-hourly Crewe-Leighton Hospital-Winsford service?

Crewe always seems to be in a poor position regarding bus services - it is at the southern extremity for Arriva North West and northern extremity for First Potteries. As Crewe doesn't have one main provider, it appears the current system is a hindrance for patronage as there are too many operators with too many tickets which cannot be accepted, which reduces the amount of potential passengers.

As mentioned before Cheshire as whole needs a integrated ticket.

Crewe ,currently in addition you have Miko coaches on the 39 to Nantwich
Sorry to correct but I think you mean Crewe is westerly extreme, north northern to First Potteries

Appart from Plus Bus (not sure on Chester, Halton or Warrington), but Macclesfield for example has no multi operator ticket (Arriva North West the small dominate operator)

 

[markymark2000]

As mentioned before Cheshire as whole needs a integrated ticket.

Crewe ,currently in addition you have Miko coaches on the 39 to Nantwich
Sorry to correct but I think you mean Crewe is westerly extreme, north northern to First Potteries

Appart from Plus Bus (not sure on Chester, Halton or Warrington), but Macclesfield for example has no multi operator ticket (Arriva North West the small dominate operator)

Cheshire West won't get a multi operator ticket despite the fact it could be brought in very quickly. Their bus Service Improvement Plan states 'medium to long term' for a mutli operator ticket because they want back office stuff for fare capping. Typical Cheshire Councils. Can't do something small and expand it (like Wales has done with 1bws. Bus ticket first then expand to Tap in, tap off), instead they kick everything into the long grass, spend a ton of money on it and then when it doesn't go right, it's someone elses fault.

Inept prats at both Cheshire Councils. Kinda funny, they won't reply to anyone now with reasonable suggestions because it shows how unskilled the staff and councillors are. The phrase 'All the gear but no idea' was literally made for Cheshire Councils.

 

[northwichcat]

Cheshire West won't get a multi operator ticket despite the fact it could be brought in very quickly.

They did so something about the different operators on the 15/15A/15B in Chester in requiring a standard ticket accepted regardless of the operator. But when D&G had the Sunday contract they used it as an opportunity to say their own tickets aren't valid on the 15A!

Inept prats at both Cheshire Councils. Kinda funny, they won't reply to anyone now with reasonable suggestions because it shows how unskilled the staff and councillors are. The phrase 'All the gear but no idea' was literally made for Cheshire Councils.

The council owned Warrington's Own Buses have an app called 'Touch&Go' that can be used to purchase day and season tickets. Logically Warrington Council should work to expand that to other operators and the other Cheshire councils should work to expand that app within their own areas. I've used the day ticket you can purchase in the app on both the 47 and CAT9, so it can already be used in both Cheshire East and Cheshire West, it's just limited to one operator.

As the operator using it is council owned it should be easier to expand that system, than to get an operator like D&G to accept a ticket that you purchase in an Arriva app.

 

[Deerfold]

They did so something about the different operators on the 15/15A/15B in Chester in requiring a standard ticket accepted regardless of the operator. But when D&G had the Sunday contract they used it as an opportunity to say their own tickets aren't valid on the 15A!



The council owned Warrington's Own Buses have an app called 'Touch&Go' that can be used to purchase day and season tickets. Logically Warrington Council should work to expand that to other operators and the other Cheshire councils should work to expand that app within their own areas. I've used the day ticket you can purchase in the app on both the 47 and CAT9, so it can already be used in both Cheshire East and Cheshire West, it's just limited to one operator.

As the operator using it is council owned it should be easier to expand that system, than to get an operator like D&G to accept a ticket that you purchase in an Arriva app.

Legally the bus company is completely separate from the council - they just happen to own it. The council didn't have rights to simply share things the company owns, however much that might help.

 

[northwichcat]

Legally the bus company is completely separate from the council - they just happen to own it. The council didn't have rights to simply share things the company owns, however much that might help.

Warrington's Own Buses have almost all the bus contracts awarded by Warrington Borough Council, so it's in both parties best interests to cooperate with one another whether they are legally required to or not. Most of the bus company board are on it because they are elected councillors, so non-cooperation would be a bit of a conflict of interest for those board members! The bus company hasn't developed the app, they licence the same one as other operators use but give it their own name and branding. But as it exists, it's already on people's phones and is being actively used. The personal data of people who've signed up on the app doesn't need to transfer to the council or any other operator.

Julian Peddle fell out with TfGM over what they were asking for in exchange for operators receiving COVID grants. That just wouldn't happen between a council and their own bus operator.

 

[markymark2000]

They did so something about the different operators on the 15/15A/15B in Chester in requiring a standard ticket accepted regardless of the operator. But when D&G had the Sunday contract they used it as an opportunity to say their own tickets aren't valid on the 15A!

That is a partnership between the operators which was needed as there were 30 odd buses per hour in the area. In fairness, D&G had nothing else running in Chester on Sundays so the ticket acceptance was meaningless.

The council owned Warrington's Own Buses have an app called 'Touch&Go' that can be used to purchase day and season tickets. Logically Warrington Council should work to expand that to other operators and the other Cheshire councils should work to expand that app within their own areas. I've used the day ticket you can purchase in the app on both the 47 and CAT9, so it can already be used in both Cheshire East and Cheshire West, it's just limited to one operator.

As the operator using it is council owned it should be easier to expand that system, than to get an operator like D&G to accept a ticket that you purchase in an Arriva app.

Touch&Go is the exact same as every single other bus operator. Why can't they work it with the Stagecoach app or Arriva app. The point you are making makes absolutely zero sense for the app.

Warrington's Own Buses have almost all the bus contracts awarded by Warrington Borough Council, so it's in both parties best interests to cooperate with one another whether they are legally required to or not. Most of the bus company board are on it because they are elected councillors, so non-cooperation would be a bit of a conflict of interest for those board members! The bus company hasn't developed the app, they licence the same one as other operators use but give it their own name and branding. But as it exists, it's already on people's phones and is being actively used. The personal data of people who've signed up on the app doesn't need to transfer to the council or any other operator.

Julian Peddle fell out with TfGM over what they were asking for in exchange for operators receiving COVID grants. That just wouldn't happen between a council and their own bus operator.

WOB has all of the contracts due to a conflict of interest. Warrington Council will do all they can to rid the other bus companies from Warrington including but not limited to supporting WOB to rid local independents so that WOB could benefit financially. If WOB council cared about making it cheaper for people to travel, they would be demanding WOB didn't have the highest fares in the area. It's cheaper to get a return to Manchester on GNW than it is to go to Birchwood on WOB. Arrivas 360 is 50p cheaper than Warringtons 22 from Warrington to Newton Le Willows. On every journey that I checked, Warrington was more expensive than other bus operators so there is no hope at all that the council will reduce fares off their own accord when they are letting WOB have the most expensive fares in the area.

 

[Martin1988]

I went up to Crewe for a few days back in February and seem to recall I brought both Arriva and D&G dayrider tickets. For journeys such as Crewe to Leighton or Crewe to Haslington it would just be so much simpler if there was just one ticket you could buy and use with all operators.

Something I am suprised about is how Arriva and D&G have both managed to retain the 38 service. Presumably they don't accept the other operators tickets but I am surprised that D&G have managed to maintain a commercial 38 all this time and also suprised that Arriva haven't felt the need to make cuts as a result of D&G coming along and taking away passengers.

 

[Simon75]

That is a partnership between the operators which was needed as there were 30 odd buses per hour in the area. In fairness, D&G had nothing else running in Chester on Sundays so the ticket acceptance was meaningless.


Touch&Go is the exact same as every single other bus operator. Why can't they work it with the Stagecoach app or Arriva app. The point you are making makes absolutely zero sense for the app.


WOB has all of the contracts due to a conflict of interest. Warrington Council will do all they can to rid the other bus companies from Warrington including but not limited to supporting WOB to rid local independents so that WOB could benefit financially. If WOB council cared about making it cheaper for people to travel, they would be demanding WOB didn't have the highest fares in the area. It's cheaper to get a return to Manchester on GNW than it is to go to Birchwood on WOB. Arrivas 360 is 50p cheaper than Warringtons 22 from Warrington to Newton Le Willows. On every journey that I checked, Warrington was more expensive than other bus operators so there is no hope at all that the council will reduce fares off their own accord when they are letting WOB have the most expensive fares in the area.

Warrington Borough Transport (WBT) had a war with North Western in 90s and didn't Crosville in 80s have a garage in Warrington? Did WBT push them out ?

 

[markymark2000]

Warrington Borough Transport (WBT) had a war with North Western in 90s and didn't Crosville in 80s have a garage in Warrington? Did WBT push them out ?

That much I don't know, before my time.


In recent years though, they have nudged Link Network out of the 110 and Fairbrothers off the local network. They did used to run route 3, a few minutes ahead of GoNorthWest. They are trying to compete with Arriva on the Warrington-Widnes corridor to get rid of them.

I went up to Crewe for a few days back in February and seem to recall I brought both Arriva and D&G dayrider tickets. For journeys such as Crewe to Leighton or Crewe to Haslington it would just be so much simpler if there was just one ticket you could buy and use with all operators.

Something I am suprised about is how Arriva and D&G have both managed to retain the 38 service. Presumably they don't accept the other operators tickets but I am surprised that D&G have managed to maintain a commercial 38 all this time and also suprised that Arriva haven't felt the need to make cuts as a result of D&G coming along and taking away passengers.

Cheshire East won't negotiate and get one set up though. Their staff are physically incapable of doing anything which could encourage bus usage. There is no reason why a multi operator ticket couldn't be set up if they wanted to set one up. Arriva, First and D&G already participate in multi operator schemes in Stoke and Staffordshire. No reason why the same couldn't be done for Cheshire East.

 

[Statto]

Agreed, ever since the demise of Crosville, Cheshire has long needed a bus ticket available on all the operators in the area, like they have in Merseyside & GM area, one route can have multiple operators, whether commercial or council supported


Speaking of Crosville, they had a garage in Warrington long before d-reg, the depot was then became part of North Western when Crosville was split around 1990, think Arriva closed the depot, not sure.

 

[daodao]

Speaking of Crosville, they had a garage in Warrington long before d-reg, the depot was then became part of North Western

North Western Road Car Company's (NWRCC) stage carriage services were transferred to other operators in 1972 when the company was broken up. They just had an outstation at the Warrington Corporation Transport depot to assist with working the services via Lymm, which they ran themselves. Crosville ran the services from Warrington to Northwich, although NWRCC did run an infrequent service from Winsford to Warrington via Cuddington and a Saturday service to Lower Peover via Knutsford. I have a particular memory of the buses with specially designed low curved roofs used on the service via Bowdon and Dunham to fit under the canal bridge near Dunham Massey. Details of these services are shown in the 1967 copy of the NWRCC timetable available at Timetable World:

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

 

[northwichcat]

That is a partnership between the operators which was needed as there were 30 odd buses per hour in the area. In fairness, D&G had nothing else running in Chester on Sundays so the ticket acceptance was meaningless.

D&G won a Sunday tender which required them to join the 'quality partnership'. Now the contract is back with Stagecoach it has less relevance as Stagecoach are part of it regardless.

D&G run Mon-Sat 82 services to Chester, so the fact that someone living in Chester who had purchased a weekly ticket was not able to use it on the D&G 15A on Sundays was certainly not meaningless!

Touch&Go is the exact same as every single other bus operator.

Bit of an exaggeration there as not every operator uses that app.

Why can't they work it with the Stagecoach app or Arriva app.

Legally the Cheshire councils can't. If they wanted a Cheshire wide all operator app they would have to put it out for tender and hope that Stagecoach, Arriva and First are actually interested in developing their own apps to make them multi-operator. There's no guarantee they would be interested. Even in Bristol, where time and effort has gone in to bus ticketing and real time information, the First app is not a multi-operator app. It's the same app people download in Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Scotland etc.

The point you are making makes absolutely zero sense for the app.

You can try coming up with a sensible plan yourself then. You seem good at complaining about the lack of integration but you've never able to suggest any workable viable options.

It's cheaper to get a return to Manchester on GNW than it is to go to Birchwood on WOB.

Perhaps it depends how you purchase your ticket?

Go North West day tickets:
£5.20 on app
£5.50 from driver

Warrington's Own Buses day tickets:
£4.95 on app
£5.95 from driver

Longer journeys generally are better value than short ones, even on the same operator. D&G Bus will happily charge passengers £5.50 return for a journey that's under 5 miles in each direction. But they'll also allow you to travel from Wythenshawe to Crewe for £5.50 return.

WOB has all of the contracts due to a conflict of interest. Warrington Council will do all they can to rid the other bus companies from Warrington including but not limited to supporting WOB to rid local independents so that WOB could benefit financially. Arrivas 360 is 50p cheaper than Warringtons 22 from Warrington to Newton Le Willows. On every journey that I checked, Warrington was more expensive than other bus operators so there is no hope at all that the council will reduce fares off their own accord when they are letting WOB have the most expensive fares in the area. If WOB council cared about making it cheaper for people to travel, they would be demanding WOB didn't have the highest fares in the area.

If there's direct competition then presumably it means those services are commercially operated?

In recent years though, they have nudged Link Network out of the 110 and Fairbrothers off the local network.

The headteacher at Penketh High School decided the Fairbrother's 'Pound 2 Town' service was no longer providing a reliable service, so awarded a contract to Howards/Springfield and refused to allow Fairbrother's access to the school. It wasn't all about WOB trying to get rid of the competition, even if they gained from Fairbrother's going out-of-business.

Worth remembering WOB withdrew their Altrincham service at one point when a rival (Warrington Coachways) were running two different routes between Altrincham and Warrington, including one via High Legh.

 

[SeanM1997]

With the Crewe network - I am surprised D&G haven't attacked Arriva further. Now that Arriva are cutting the 31W from Crewe to Winsford, it would not be surprising to see them add that route - but it is surprising that they haven't stayed on the 84 route

 

[northwichcat]

With the Crewe network - I am surprised D&G haven't attacked Arriva further. Now that Arriva are cutting the 31W from Crewe to Winsford, it would not be surprising to see them add that route - but it is surprising that they haven't stayed on the 84 route

Could Peddle be considering an offer for Arriva's Winsford operations, like the recent deal for their Cannock operations?

 

[ChrisC]

As mentioned before Cheshire as whole needs a integrated ticket.

Crewe ,currently in addition you have Miko coaches on the 39 to Nantwich
Sorry to correct but I think you mean Crewe is westerly extreme, north northern to First Potteries

Appart from Plus Bus (not sure on Chester, Halton or Warrington), but Macclesfield for example has no multi operator ticket (Arriva North West the small dominate operator)

That is the case in large parts of the country outside of the big cities. A few counties have good multi operated tickets but many of the shire counties don’t. Where I live in Nottinghamshire there are two main companies, both charging around £7 for their day tickets and that’s not including the smaller operators. Even a return journey to somewhere only 10 miles away, involving 2 different operators, can cost around £14. Countywide multi operator tickets are great but then there comes the issue of places near the county boundary where the main flows of passengers are over the border into the neighbouring authority.

 

[Shauny]

It would never happen. But a nationalised bus service owned by the taxpayer. With it being divided by each region, being run by operators like we have today with a London based franchise system. I think would be great. If you look at places like France, Germany, Austria, they have this down to a T. It’s a case of we were there first, now we’re the worst.

 

[markymark2000]

D&G won a Sunday tender which required them to join the 'quality partnership'. Now the contract is back with Stagecoach it has less relevance as Stagecoach are part of it regardless.

Proof that it was in the contract for them to join the quality partnership? Because I can tell you that it wasn't in the contract and the ticket acceptance came about because I emailed D&G.

D&G run Mon-Sat 82 services to Chester, so the fact that someone living in Chester who had purchased a weekly ticket was not able to use it on the D&G 15A on Sundays was certainly not meaningless!

It is meaningless. They are opposite sides of Chester and very few (nil?) passengers use D&G from Vicars Cross etc into Chester, certainly not with weekly tickets.

Bit of an exaggeration there as not every operator uses that app.

Every operator has their own app. what is so special about the Warrington one (Which is owned by the bus company by the way and comes as part of the website package that they have)

Legally the Cheshire councils can't. If they wanted a Cheshire wide all operator app they would have to put it out for tender and hope that Stagecoach, Arriva and First are actually interested in developing their own apps to make them multi-operator. There's no guarantee they would be interested. Even in Bristol, where time and effort has gone in to bus ticketing and real time information, the First app is not a multi-operator app. It's the same app people download in Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Scotland etc.

Cheshire West already has it's own app. They just refuse to get it updated because it would encourage people onto buses. It's called 'iTravelSmart'.

You can try coming up with a sensible plan yourself then. You seem good at complaining about the lack of integration but you've never able to suggest any workable viable options.

Sensible plan. Do the exact same as North Wales has done with 1Bws. Paper ticket, bought on the bus and all Ticketer machines talk together for the QR code to be accepted. Manchester System 1, Leicester Flexi.

You don't need apps at all. You negotiate a reimbursement with operators and they print the ticket on existing machines. IF you so wish, you can open up the ticket to be sold on operators existing apps (exactly as Leicester has done where their Flexi ticket can be bought on the Centrebus, First and Arriva own apps. Stagecoach and Kinch choose not to have it on their app). Not everyone wants to or can buy tickets on their phone, as soon as you start demanding that stuff, people stop buying the ticket (or don't start buying it in this case).

Perhaps it depends how you purchase your ticket?

Go North West day tickets:
£5.20 on app
£5.50 from driver

Warrington's Own Buses day tickets:
£4.95 on app
£5.95 from driver

Longer journeys generally are better value than short ones, even on the same operator. D&G Bus will happily charge passengers £5.50 return for a journey that's under 5 miles in each direction. But they'll also allow you to travel from Wythenshawe to Crewe for £5.50 return.

Ok, fair, app prices may be cheaper but m-ticket usage is still far behind people paying on the bus. As such, I don't think it's an overly fair comparison given the majority of passengers would be paying onboard. The only route where The only time that WOB is cheaper is when they are unlikely to get any passengers and so choose to price low to say they offer lower fares. Such as on the 32 (why would people use WOB when Arriva are more frequent and are more reliable) or on the 62 (why would someone use WOB when Arriva literally dominates Runcorn. I certainly wouldn't sit waiting for a WOB bus as it's probably cancelled and why would I let 6 Arrivas pass me going the same way). Generally speaking, they are more expensive though.

If there's direct competition then presumably it means those services are commercially operated?

22 is commercial I think to an extent but has some funding. 32 is commercial yes.

The headteacher at Penketh High School decided the Fairbrother's 'Pound 2 Town' service was no longer providing a reliable service, so awarded a contract to Howards/Springfield and refused to allow Fairbrother's access to the school. It wasn't all about WOB trying to get rid of the competition, even if they gained from Fairbrother's going out-of-business.

Do you work for WOB or something? Peddling this rubbish. Fairbrothers were still serving Penketh High until the day WOB took over. Are you also conveniently ignoring the competition on the local routes. Sorry but you're absolutely delusional. Warrington must have spent hundreds of thousands to get rid of Fairbrothers with how they were being.

With the Crewe network - I am surprised D&G haven't attacked Arriva further. Now that Arriva are cutting the 31W from Crewe to Winsford, it would not be surprising to see them add that route - but it is surprising that they haven't stayed on the 84 route

D&G don't have the mental capacity to run a proper network now, god help us if they expand. Crewe - Northwich in 3 days with the amount of padding in D&Gs timetables. They were once a decent operator but they just aren't focussed on growth anymore. Running bare minimum. Bid low, win a contract then it's cut back within a few months because they seemingly can't run it to budget. Constant cuts and changes. The sort of operator that needs removing from the industry, not expanding.

 

[Martin1988]

Couple of questions if anyone is able to answer.

With regards to that Sunday 15 service that D&G operated did they lose the contract in retendering or did they hand it back? Am I right in thinking it was at or around the same time as the Sunday 85 got dropped? Presumably D&G wouldn't have wanted to keep their Crewe depot open on a Sunday for one service operating in Chester?

For those traveling to Crewe by rail can you still get a Plusbus ticket and enjoy multi operator travel in the town that way?

Thirdly can anyone enlighten me on why D&G have become the dominant operator in Crewe and Cheshire East? Was it due to operators such as Arriva (or Potteries?) chucking in services that were no longer commercially viable or for another reason?

 

[markymark2000]

Couple of questions if anyone is able to answer.

With regards to that Sunday 15 service that D&G operated did they loose the contract in retendering or did they hand it back? Am I right in thinking it was at or around the same time as the Sunday 85 got dropped? Presumably D&G wouldn't have wanted to keep their Crewe depot open on a Sunday for one service operating in Chester?

Lost at retendering.

For those traveling to Crewe by rail can you still get a Plusbus ticket and enjoy multi operator travel in the town that way?

Yes, you do still have Plusbus

Thirdly can anyone enlighten me on why D&G have become the dominant operator in Crewe and Cheshire East? Was it due to operators such as Arriva (or Potteries?) chucking in services that were no longer commercially viable or for another reason?

Mostly through winning tenders. Some parts will be down to Arriva cutting routes as well.

 

[northwichcat]

Proof that it was in the contract for them to join the quality partnership? Because I can tell you that it wasn't in the contract and the ticket acceptance came about because I emailed D&G.

I was basing that on the Cheshire West timetable saying they were a partner in the Quality Partnership and the D&G service was operated on their behalf.

It is meaningless. They are opposite sides of Chester and very few (nil?) passengers use D&G from Vicars Cross etc into Chester, certainly not with weekly tickets.

So you think leisure journeys people make at weekends match their weekday journeys? There are some scholars based in Chester who go out of Chester on the 82 to get to school/college.

Every operator has their own app. what is so special about the Warrington one (Which is owned by the bus company by the way and comes as part of the website package that they have)

I understand white labelling thank you. The Warrington one is a good starting point because:
1. It's being managed by a company owned by a local council.
2. It's not a nationwide app for a big operator.
3. Many people already have it on their phones. So they can keep the existing download and sign in details and update as required.

Cheshire West already has it's own app. They just refuse to get it updated because it would encourage people onto buses. It's called 'iTravelSmart'.

I wasn't aware of that. I was aware that dropped the smartcard scheme that they led for all of Cheshire. However, you've just pointed out they haven't encouraged people to download it, so it doesn't have the 3rd advantage I mentioned above.

You don't need apps at all.

No. You can't argue about Cheshire councils not being forward thinking and then argue apps aren't required. Apps shouldn't be the only way of buying tickets but it's 2022 not 2002. Some passengers want day and weekly tickets stored on their phones so replacing single operator tickets on a smart phone with multi-operator paper tickets is taking two steps forward and one step backwards.

Ok, fair, app prices may be cheaper but m-ticket usage is still far behind people paying on the bus. As such, I don't think it's an overly fair comparison given the majority of passengers would be paying onboard.

The majority of passengers seem to buy short distance singles but you wanted to compare day ticket prices. Go North West offer a slow way of getting to Manchester from Warrington. They need to ensure they undercut the faster train and that the saving is significant enough to attract passengers.

Do you work for WOB or something? Peddling this rubbish. Fairbrothers were still serving Penketh High until the day WOB took over. Are you also conveniently ignoring the competition on the local routes. Sorry but you're absolutely delusional. Warrington must have spent hundreds of thousands to get rid of Fairbrothers with how they were being.

It's not rubbish. Your knowledge on Warrington services isn't as good as you think it is. A quote from the Fairbrother's man himself:

"Bus Operator David Fairbrother who runs independent bus company Fairbrothers, claims the Penketh Principal and members of his staff have attempted to physically block pupils boarding his buses when they arrive to collect them after school – and instructed them to use rival bus firm Springfield based in Moore- which he says, breaks bus de-regulation laws allowing fair competition. "

Mr Fairbrother said: “We are still running as normal, but Mr Dunne has asked another operator to run the same service as us.

“He tried to tell us he did not want our services anymore, which is not easy as it is a regular service, not funded by the school or the council.

“He has no control over our services which we have been running almost faultless for over 15 years."

Bus war breaks out at Penketh High School

A BUS wars has broken out at Penketh High School in Warrington, with two rival operators bidding to win over the same pupils.

www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk

The principal did later back down but the competition remained, so Fairbrothers didn't take as much as they would have done otherwise.

And of course Fairbrother's going out-of-business was nothing to do with them not having enough usable vehicles following a fire at their yard:

Emergency school bus service after fire

BUS company Network Warrington has stepped in to operate an emergency school service to and from Penketh High School this afternoon and on Monday.

www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk

Mostly through winning tenders. Some parts will be down to Arriva cutting routes as well.

GHA being a dominant operator and then collapsing was another factor too. D&G got most of the replacement contracts and had so much work that they needed to loan drivers from Transdev until they were able to recruit more drivers themselves.

With regards to that Sunday 15 service that D&G operated did they loose the contract in retendering or did they hand it back? Am I right in thinking it was at or around the same time as the Sunday 85 got dropped? Presumably D&G wouldn't have wanted to keep their Crewe depot open on a Sunday for one service operating in Chester?

The 15A Sunday service went when the contract retendering took place, effective from April 2022. The Northwich local Sunday services went back to Arriva at the same time. They'd already lost the 288 contract, that included a Sunday service. Possibly that one related to Julian Peddle's outspoken criticism of how much reporting TfGM were expecting from contracted operators?

 

[GusB]

Okay, let's keep the discussion civil please? It's possible to disagree with someone without resorting to being rude.

Could everyone also remember to avoid using abbreviations without explanation, and that any links to external articles should be accompanied by a relevant quote.

Thanks.

 

[northwichcat]

The D&G website says that the Saturday service on the 94 Newcastle - Wolstanton - Bradwell - Tunstall - Biddulph - Congleton will no longer operate "due to low passenger numbers"

Home | D&G Bus

dgbus.co.uk

 

[daodao]

The D&G website says that the Saturday service on the 94 Newcastle - Wolstanton - Bradwell - Tunstall - Biddulph - Congleton will no longer operate "due to low passenger numbers"

Home | D&G Bus

dgbus.co.uk

D&G had already withdrawn the cross boundary Saturday journeys into Congleton on service 94. It is the remaining Saturday short workings on route 94 between Newcastle and Tunstall that they have just withdrawn. D&G do seem to be trimming services frequently in the same way as Arriva.

 

[Shauny]

TSS (Transport Service Solutions) has now merged into Ansa Transport for Cheshire East.