Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Deerfold]

Oh right, I'm not up to date with books/films myself.

I think a Transdev operation would be realistic. But be prepared for the route numbers to be changed, as they seem to prefer using words than numbers in the route ID. (swift, the sixes etc.)

Are you thinking of Wellglade? Both those routes are theirs. Transdev only have a handful of named routes, but they do like putting an initial letter on routes.

 

[sonic2009]

I spent a few hours on Saturday riding the Winsford to Northwich and Crewe services. Sadly of the 8 journeys I made, none carried passengers numbers that a Mellor couldn’t handle. Indeed, one of them was allocated to the 31W/37W.

Agree on this one, not a lot of the services carry many passengers at the moment, except around the busy times. Winsford & Northwich had a major change back end of last year, and improving services supposedly by cutting the Winsford estates out of the Crewe - Northwich & Sandbach - Northwich services and introducing two new Winsford local services 7A/7C which carry hardly anyone!

I suspect if Winsford/Macclesfield was to be sold then possibly may go to Stagecoach or D&G?

Stagecoach have just started to operate a tendered service between Northwich and Frodsham.

 

[RELL6L]

I can't see anyone wanting to take on Winsford and Macclesfield with existing infrastructure and staff. I dare say the 38 and 84 are profitable, maybe the 10 in Macclesfield and some local stuff around Crewe, but I doubt if much is. Before Covid I would have said D & G might, I suppose they still might but they are more likely just to take on some of the routes if they can find staff. Sadly I think it is more likely Arriva will just pull out - like Guildford - and leave it to the local authority and any interested operators to pick up some of the pieces. At Winsford at least drivers could probably be offered work at Runcorn or Chester, at the moment the problem is too few staff not too many. I think it highly unlikely that Transdev or Wellglade would be interested, High Peak might pick up some morsels in Macclesfield.

Stagecoach have just started to operate a tendered service between Northwich and Frodsham.

This was previously a Warrington Buses route which Stagecoach won on re-tender, identical timetable, now run by a bus running out of Chester. I don't think it indicates anything by way of interest in the area.

 

[sonic2009]

I can't see anyone wanting to take on Winsford and Macclesfield with existing infrastructure and staff. I dare say the 38 and 84 are profitable, maybe the 10 in Macclesfield and some local stuff around Crewe, but I doubt if much is. Before Covid I would have said D & G might, I suppose they still might but they are more likely just to take on some of the routes if they can find staff. Sadly I think it is more likely Arriva will just pull out - like Guildford - and leave it to the local authority and any interested operators to pick up some of the pieces. At Winsford at least drivers could probably be offered work at Runcorn or Chester, at the moment the problem is too few staff not too many. I think it highly unlikely that Transdev or Wellglade would be interested, High Peak might pick up some morsels in Macclesfield.



This was previously a Warrington Buses route which Stagecoach won on re-tender, identical timetable, now run by a bus running out of Chester. I don't think it indicates anything by way of interest in the area.

I agree it doesn't make Stagecoach interested, but they could look to take on services around the Winsford area if Arriva do pull out. We shall wait and find out.

 

[markymark2000]

Stagecoach did briefly operate service 130 for about 3 months under an emergency tender following the demise of GHA in July 2016. Go Goodwins (trading as Little Gem) might also bid for service 130 (they currently run tendered service 391/2 from Macclesfield to Stockport). Both have Euro 6 compliant vehicles.

I think it will come down to the difference in cost between the options. If euro 4 Macc - Handforth works out significantly cheaper than euro 6 to Wythenshawe, they are going to opt for that aren't they.

While I don't generally support public subsidies for weekend and evening local bus services, there is a case for introducing some sort of tendered Sunday daytime bus service (0930-1730) linking Northwich/Winsford/Middlewich/Leighton Hospital/Crewe, similar to proposed D&G service 30 that was due to start in April 2020, but suspended and subsequently discarded because of the Covid pandemic.

The 30 was daft. If you are going to have a Sunday bus, it should follow the routes of the 'core' weekday services, not be a brand new route.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think it will come down to the difference in cost between the options. If euro 4 Macc - Handforth works out significantly cheaper than euro 6 to Wythenshawe, they are going to opt for that aren't they.

That's reminded me, if d&g and CEC want to keep sending it beyond Wilmslow, the 88 will need euro 6 vehicles.

 

[markymark2000]

In my opinion, the issue in Cheshire East is no one works schools with service anymore, it's very much 'them and us' when it comes to that sort of thing so in areas which are more rural like Cheshire East, the one bit of guaranteed income which helps to cross subsidise the rest of the day, is gone.

Macclesfield College run college buses to Congleton, Knutsford, Wilmslow/Handforth and even Buxton.
Cheshire College has 21 college buses. Generally from areas where students could use local buses.
All Hallows College in Macc has 6 routes
Reaseheath College, 23 bus routes, it's only 5 minutes out of Nantwich

I could go on. Some of the school buses even make a mockery of the local bus network by duplicating over (almost in full) the core service and using the same route number (Mikro Coaches 84 for instance. Exactly the same as Arrivas 84 except diverts 1 minute into Malbank School

Thousands of school kids each day going to school on dedicated buses rather than on the local service routes. That is where the area fails compared to other areas and it could be changed but it takes time and effort. Something which the two bone idle operators can't be bothered with and instead focus on managed decline.

That's reminded me, if d&g and CEC want to keep sending it beyond Wilmslow, the 88 will need euro 6 vehicles.

That's a good thought. No tender has gone out yet. It does raise an interesting point though of whether the tender will go out in a different form to reduce the amount of buses which need to be euro 4 and thus go into Greater Manchester. Cheshire East tenders normally go out via their Dynamic Purchasing System thingy, not normally via The Chest so I don't know when the 88 tender will go out unless it does so via The Chest.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Macclesfield College run college buses to Congleton, Knutsford, Wilmslow/Handforth and even Buxton.
Cheshire College has 21 college buses. Generally from areas where students could use local buses.
All Hallows College in Macc has 6 routes
Reaseheath College, 23 bus routes, it's only 5 minutes out of Nantwich

The problem is, there isn't a constant general kicking out time, so it requires the schools working together first before transport and the schools start talking.

That's a good thought. No tender has gone out yet. It does raise an interesting point though of whether the tender will go out in a different form to reduce the amount of buses which need to be euro 4 and thus go into Greater Manchester. Cheshire East tenders normally go out via their Dynamic Purchasing System thingy, not normally via The Chest so I don't know when the 88 tender will go out unless it does so via The Chest.

When does the current tender run out? If it's still active, it'd probably be easier to just change the 4 for a 6, if that's possible.

 

[py_megapixel]

The problem is, there isn't a constant general kicking out time, so it requires the schools working together first before transport and the schools start talking.

Some schools actually work together to explicitly stagger their timings, for example to avoid excessive traffic congestion, or for the benefit of secondary school students who need to walk with a younger sibling to/from a nearby primary school.

 

[sonic2009]

I think it will come down to the difference in cost between the options. If euro 4 Macc - Handforth works out significantly cheaper than euro 6 to Wythenshawe, they are going to opt for that aren't they.


The 30 was daft. If you are going to have a Sunday bus, it should follow the routes of the 'core' weekday services, not be a brand new route.

Wasn't the 30 designed to give most places a Sunday service to Leighton Hospital?

 

[Shauny]

Wasn't the 30 designed to give most places a Sunday service to Leighton Hospital?

It was yes.

Also the 88 is out for tender as well? I thought it was just the 130.

 

[sonic2009]

It was yes.

Also the 88 is out for tender as well? I thought it was just the 130.

Would that be the 89 out for Tender also then?

Knutsford - Northwich?

Also..

Would anyone object to the thread being changed to East&West Cheshire etc? Or just Cheshire. As we do talk about Winsford etc which is in Cheshire West

Saves having to create a new thread,

 

[markymark2000]

The problem is, there isn't a constant general kicking out time, so it requires the schools working together first before transport and the schools start talking.

That's not the point about consistent kicking out time. You can still make it work as it proven up and down the country. College students can use normal buses. Cheshire College for the Chester and EPort campuses, give out free bus passes which are valid on all Stagecoach and Arriva buses. Why isn't that done for Crewe instead of running 21 college buses? Of which, many are duplicating over existing bus routes.

Macclesfield to Congleton, there is a half hourly bus, why does there need to be a college bus.

College students are versitile. Some do half days for example, some like to go into town for lunch. Giving them a bus pass means that they can turn up and leave when they want and work around local bus times where frequent buses are in place. Preston College is a good example. Stagecoach have variations to their 'core' routes which serve the college at the main start/end time. Outside of that, the students can walk a minute or so further and then get the normal buses into town and change buses. Ellesmere Port Campus of Cheshire College has only a single dedicated bus which is to an area which is poorly served by buses (every 2 hours). Warrington Priestley College has changed from lots of dedicated buses to instead the students catching the normal bus which may extend or changing buses in the town centre. While I know these examples are outside of the area, it proves that colleges work with operators for acceptance on local buses rather than running a dedicated network.

When does the current tender run out? If it's still active, it'd probably be easier to just change the 4 for a 6, if that's possible.

Not sure. Changing the tender would cost a lot so it would be likely that they would retender it rather than take D&Gs price straight on. Least that is what they are meant to do if there is a significant change to the contract.



@ShaunyFlynn @sonic2009
The 88/89 tender (it's combined) is not out for tender as far as I know.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Also the 88 is out for tender as well?

Not currently, but it'll have to at some point.

Would that be the 89 out for Tender also then?

The 88/89/188 are a combined route, so it'd have to go out together or be spilt again.

That's not the point about consistent kicking out time. You can still make it work as it proven up and down the country.

I was talking about a redirecting routes for kicking out time POV.

College students can use normal buses. Cheshire College for the Chester and EPort campuses, give out free bus passes which are valid on all Stagecoach and Arriva buses. Why isn't that done for Crewe instead of running 21 college buses? Of which, many are duplicating over existing bus routes.

You raise a good point and it might possibly be down to the colleges wanting control over their transport, so kids can't bunk off etc.

 

[markymark2000]

I was talking about a redirecting routes for kicking out time POV.

Of course you won't match them all but some you can. The point is not scrap all school buses but a number can be replaced by local service routes.

You raise a good point and it might possibly be down to the colleges wanting control over their transport, so kids can't bunk off etc.

Kids will bunk if they want to. It just removes the buses as an excuse but with the increase of live tracking etc, it is less likely for the student to miss the bus and easier for the school/college to check if the bus ran.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Kids will bunk if they want to. It just removes the buses as an excuse but with the increase of live tracking etc, it is less likely for the student to miss the bus and easier for the school/college to check if the bus ran.

That is true. Another issue is they can't exactly make the bus run, where as they can if they control them in house. So there's that to consider as well, although it's better to have bus passes.

 

[markymark2000]

That is true. Another issue is they can't exactly make the bus run, where as they can if they control them in house. So there's that to consider as well, although it's better to have bus passes.

Depends. No operator with half a braincell is going to do stuff like that though. Not unheard of but not if they have any sense.

 

[Shauny]

Noticed the 88’s were all on solos today. Except for one. (107)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Depends. No operator with half a braincell is going to do stuff like that though. Not unheard of but not if they have any sense.

Well I guess that's why schools like them in house. It's guaranteed a bus will show or there'll be fininacial penalties.

Noticed the 88’s were all on solos today. Except for one. (107)

I've noticed an increase in Enviros, so this is a change.

 

[Simon75]

Back in the late 90s Cheshire County Council issued passes for South Cheshire college for students in Winsford and Northwich(I had one) it could be used on any bus between Crewe and Winsford/Northwich depending where you lived. They also had a dedicated college bus (North Western ran it, with Vrs ), almost duplicating the K31 Crewe to Northwich, but via South Cheshire College. The college also had coached to further afield ie Whitchurch (Shropshire)

 

[jfollows]

Would anyone object to the thread being changed to East&West Cheshire etc? Or just Cheshire. As we do talk about Winsford etc which is in Cheshire West

Saves having to create a new thread,

Good idea, thanks for this. I'm never sure which part of Cheshire that I think about is covered by "East" or "West" anyway, and I'm interested to hear about all of it.

 

[Shauny]

I miss Cheshire County Council. At least they seemed to care about public transport.

Cheshire East Council don't care at all, since they've come into power, we've lost the following:

130 - Macclesfield - Manchester
99 - Macc - Congleton
32 - Crewe Sandbach
1 - Macc - Forest Cottage
and literally every Sunday service we had, the only buses that serve Cheshire East on a Sunday are, 85 (which we are losing soon) 3, 84, 58, 199 (for a split second) & 88 (again, only for a split second)
So why do places like Disley & Alsager have buses on a Sunday but Congleton doesn't? Where more people use the bus there.

 

[markymark2000]

I miss Cheshire County Council. At least they seemed to care about public transport.

Cheshire East Council don't care at all, since they've come into power, we've lost the following:

130 - Macclesfield - Manchester
99 - Macc - Congleton
32 - Crewe Sandbach
1 - Macc - Forest Cottage
and literally every Sunday service we had, the only buses that serve Cheshire East on a Sunday are, 85 (which we are losing soon) 3, 84, 58, 199 (for a split second) & 88 (again, only for a split second)
So why do places like Disley & Alsager have buses on a Sunday but Congleton doesn't? Where more people use the bus there.

Crikey, you're being kind aren't you.

Do you want me to continue the list?

 

[Deafdoggie]

So why do places like Disley & Alsager have buses on a Sunday but Congleton doesn't? Where more people use the bus there.

Because they are operated commercially and not with subsidy.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Crikey, you're being kind aren't you.

Do you want me to continue the list?

That's nothing compared to some of the cuts they made.
15 years ago, Knutsford had;
The 300 town circular, which went well into the night (half-hourly)
The 27 to Macclesfield that served Astra Zeneca and had a Sunday service that extended into Tatton Park (hourly Mon-Sat)
The 188 to Altrincham via High Leigh (hourly, then half-hourly during a brief period in the mid 10's)
The 189 Northwich to Altrincham (2 hourly)
A bus to Warrington on Tuesdays and Fridays
And everything was run by several operators

Now it's;
The 47 to Warrington (2 buses per weekday in each direction)
The 88 Macclesfield to Altrincham (whatever the timetable dictates the frequency to be today)
The 89 to Northwich (no buses after lunchtime)
The 188 schools service (which the general public can't travel on, so why's it even here?)
And all the services of any use are run by our friend Julian Peddle and his excellent d&g bus.

 

[Shauny]

Crikey, you're being kind aren't you.

Do you want me to continue the list?

Only a few I could think of, off the top of my head. There is at least 30.

That's nothing compared to some of the cuts they made.
15 years ago, Knutsford had;
The 300 town circular, which went well into the night (half-hourly)
The 27 to Macclesfield that served Astra Zeneca and had a Sunday service that extended into Tatton Park (hourly Mon-Sat)
The 188 to Altrincham via High Leigh (hourly, then half-hourly during a brief period in the mid 10's)
The 189 Northwich to Altrincham (2 hourly)
A bus to Warrington on Tuesdays and Fridays
And everything was run by several operators

Now it's;
The 47 to Warrington (2 buses per weekday in each direction)
The 88 Macclesfield to Altrincham (whatever the timetable dictates the frequency to be today)
The 89 to Northwich (no buses after lunchtime)
The 188 schools service (which the general public can't travel on, so why's it even here?)
And all the services of any use are run by our friend Julian Peddle and his excellent d&g bus.

Also the 47 is Warrington’s Own Buses

 

[markymark2000]

That's nothing compared to some of the cuts they made.
15 years ago, Knutsford had;
The 300 town circular, which went well into the night (half-hourly)
The 27 to Macclesfield that served Astra Zeneca and had a Sunday service that extended into Tatton Park (hourly Mon-Sat)
The 188 to Altrincham via High Leigh (hourly, then half-hourly during a brief period in the mid 10's)
The 189 Northwich to Altrincham (2 hourly)
A bus to Warrington on Tuesdays and Fridays
And everything was run by several operators

Now it's;
The 47 to Warrington (2 buses per weekday in each direction)
The 88 Macclesfield to Altrincham (whatever the timetable dictates the frequency to be today)
The 89 to Northwich (no buses after lunchtime)
The 188 schools service (which the general public can't travel on, so why's it even here?)
And all the services of any use are run by our friend Julian Peddle and his excellent d&g bus.

In fairness, Knutsford wasn't too bad before the bus review. That killed off the buses in much of Cheshire East.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Also the 47 is Warrington’s Own Buses

I did say "of any use". 2 return trips a day, only during the week, isn't the most useful service as it only gives you a few hours in your respective town. It is a service that could prosper with more buses and a Saturday service.

In fairness, Knutsford wasn't too bad before the bus review. That killed off the buses in much of Cheshire East.

Yeah I agree. The worst part was Cheshire East Council said the fairly successful 300 should be a commercial service, so of course our friends at d&g bus made into a service that went to a housing estate in Wilmslow, where the only thing of use is a Lidl. Of course, it failed and now it's stuck in the crap position as it is now. CEC and D&G are the only people who should shoulder the blame for the position Knutsford is in.

 

[Shauny]

(By the way I use two accounts, one for PC, one for mobile)

But we can't forget Wilmslow either,

Only in 2015 there was:
- 88 to Altrincham (Half-Hourly)
- 88 to Knutsford (Half-Hourly)
- 130 to Piccadilly (Half-Hourly)
- 130 to Macclesfield (Half-Hourly)
- 378 to Stockport (Hourly)
- 200 to Manchester Airport (Hourly)
(I feel like I'm missing another route so please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Now its:
- 88 to Altrincham (Hourly)
- 88 to Knutsford (Hourly) with extension to Macclesfield (Two-Hourly)
- 130 to Wythenshawe (Hourly)
- 130 to Macclesfield (Hourly)
- T2 to Handforth Dean (2 Buses, 3 days a week)

To be honest, Wilmslow has had a bigger beating from bus cuts, But thats because most people in Wilmslow drive and have no use for the bus. I have driven through Wilmslow myself and I hardly pick up anyone, maybe a couple at Bank Square and Benson Walk.

Also the 378 was a TFGM cut, D&G tried to save the 378 by running a shuttle service from Bank Square to Handforth Dean, this has since to become the T2.

 

[Deerfold]

(By the way I use two accounts, one for PC, one for mobile)

That sounds like a recipe for confusion. Why?