Chiltern May 2023 timetable change - for the worse or better?

[Jimini]

Long time ago now but in my experience the bus predominantly catered for passengers out of Aylesbury as far as Princes Risborough and then into High Wycombe from the villages outside it. There weren't too many people doing the whole route.

Most employment in Aylesbury and in High Wycombe is not in the town centre - it's all in Cressex business park etc. Nearly everyone just drives. Those on the train probably have no choice and so will continue to use it.

They're pretty good about holding the shuttle where they can for up to 10 mins and I even saw them hold a London bound train recently to avoid a long wait

That hill in Wycombe from the station to Cressex business park is quite unforgiving as I recall!

 

[sammyg901]

That hill in Wycombe from the station to Cressex business park is quite unforgiving as I recall!

I never tried walking it! There was a handy little shuttle bus when I was working there briefly

Re: the flooding issues, I saw a tweet from the local MP that these will be resolved in August. Not sure if that is when the line will close for the HS2 works as well

 

[njimiller]

Quite a few appear to relate to the 1Y06 0605 from Oxford which is only 4 cars. This is followed by a 6 car from Bicester North 10 minutes later which may be a better option for Beaconsfield / Gerrards Cross commuters at least until Oxford-Paddington reopens

I took this 6-car getting on at Denham Golf Club on Tuesday morning and there were still plenty of seats available even after its final stop at Denham. However, I note this morning (Wednesday) it was short-formed to 5 carriages.

Why are there two hour gaps in the West Ruislip service midday - the cost of an additional stop must be miniscule. It would not have been allowable under the Passenger Service Requirement in my day, but of course, the DfT can issue derrogations.

Same two hour gap at Denham Golf Club. I queried this with them via Twitter and there answer was about extended station dwell times which meant both Ruislips and DGC couldn't be served every hour. When I queried why this was allowed as it contravened the Passenger Service Requirement of the franchise contract, I was told that the DFT will be aware of the changes.

Extended dwell times was also the reason given as to why DGC is the only station not served by the 00:10 otherwise all stations to Aylesbury (to be fair DGC only became a stop on this service during the pandemic). Due to the extended dwell times, a stop at DGC would mean the train not clearing the line in time for Network Rail engineering work. It does seem that a minute has been added between many station stops.

 

[12LDA28C]

Re: the flooding issues, I saw a tweet from the local MP that these will be resolved in August. Not sure if that is when the line will close for the HS2 works as well

Yes it is. The branch will be closing for ten weeks so it makes sense to replace the culvert at the same time.

 

[Nova1]

What is the point of this? Is this just a train that would otherwise run ECS?

Realtime Trains | 2H86 2133 Stratford-upon-Avon to London Marylebone | 24/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H86 2133 departure from Stratford-upon-Avon to London Marylebone on 24/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is now the only direct service from Stratford-Upon-Avon to London, at 21:33 in the evening. Disappointing given it used to be almost 1per 2 hours to London pre-covid.

 

[cle]

Very strange stopping pattern too! But maybe it's 'skipping' with another service?

 

[sammyg901]

Yes it is. The branch will be closing for ten weeks so it makes sense to replace the culvert at the same time.

Just saw a Bucks Free Press report - total closure of Aylesbury either way for 10 days during August and then the branch will be closed until October

 

[12LDA28C]

Just saw a Bucks Free Press report - total closure of Aylesbury either way for 10 days during August and then the branch will be closed until October

That's because the culvert at Aylesbury runs beneath all 3 lines so no trains can run whilst this work takes place. Better to do it in the summer holidays when less people are travelling...

 

[JW4]

Why has Acocks Green lost all of its Chiltern Services in the timetable change, seems a bit odd

 

[12LDA28C]

Why has Acocks Green lost all of its Chiltern Services in the timetable change, seems a bit odd

Maybe Chiltern considered that the station was served sufficiently by WMT and opted to concentrate its services where there is no alternative operator?

 

[JW4]

@12LDA28C

Thought the Leamington spa service would call there maybe, given all the London and Banbury it used to have are gone and the LMS 2 hourly service just passes through fast to Solihull, Dorridge, Lapworth

 

[Birmingham]

Thought the Leamington spa service would call there maybe, given all the London and Banbury it used to have are gone and the LMS 2 hourly service just passes through fast to Solihull, Dorridge, Lapworth

Can’t think why a minor suburban station would need to have regional express services calling. That’s the job of the local operator.

 

[JW4]

Can’t think why a minor suburban station would need to have regional express services calling. That’s the job of the local operator.

It only has two evening services on weekdays to Leamington Spa, Lapworth has calls on the two hourly Chiltern Birmingham-Leamington service as well as some calls on London services and it’s a significantly smaller station.

 

[Mikey C]

Having needed to go to Great Missenden yesterday (and not paying attention to the Chiltern changes as it's not my regular line) I was really surprised that they're not running a consistent all day half hourly service, with for example two "27" departures the 11:27 and 12:27 departures out of Marylebone removed.

Why those two?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just saw a Bucks Free Press report - total closure of Aylesbury either way for 10 days during August and then the branch will be closed until October

Could you link to the article? Cheers.

As for the timetable, there's a longer gap than I recall between morning peak trains from Vale Parkway. There are also a lot of overcrowded 2 car workings in the evening.

Edit: Found the article, it's in the Herald: https://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/...eek-aylesbury-closure-due-to-hs2-work-4155857

The long closure is just the Princes Risborough branch.

Jacqueline Dey, Chiltern Railways' operators director, said: "The damaged culvert has led to numerous short-notice cancellations this year, and we are pleased that a permanent fix will be in place before the end of the summer. Customers should be mindful that Network Rail and HS2 works will close the railway between Princes Risborough and Aylesbury for a further ten weeks after these repairs, with the line reopening again on Monday 30 October. Rail replacement buses will be in operation during this time, and customers should check before they travel.
"We know that this is a significant, long-term closure, but we are confident that the railway between Princes Risborough and Aylesbury will be more reliable as a result of these important works."

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Having needed to go to Great Missenden yesterday (and not paying attention to the Chiltern changes as it's not my regular line) I was really surprised that they're not running a consistent all day half hourly service, with for example two "27" departures the 11:27 and 12:27 departures out of Marylebone removed.

Why those two?

Costs simply - the trains in the middle of the day on a weekday are usually very quiet.

 

[12LDA28C]

Having needed to go to Great Missenden yesterday (and not paying attention to the Chiltern changes as it's not my regular line) I was really surprised that they're not running a consistent all day half hourly service, with for example two "27" departures the 11:27 and 12:27 departures out of Marylebone removed.

Why those two?

Because they were the Aylesbury terminators and they have retained the xx57 which run through to (and return from) Aylesbury Vale Parkway.

Edit: Found the article, it's in the Herald: https://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/...eek-aylesbury-closure-due-to-hs2-work-4155857

So the article claims a ten-day closure to repair the culvert but the dates given clearly indicate a 12-day closure.

 

[Mikey C]

Because they were the Aylesbury terminators and they have retained the xx57 which run through to (and return from) Aylesbury Vale Parkway.

But it's only those 2 Aylesbury terminators that have been removed, the 13:27, 14:27 and 15:27 are still running.

 

[12LDA28C]

But it's only those 2 Aylesbury terminators that have been removed, the 13:27, 14:27 and 15:27 are still running.

As you might expect due to the time of day, those services were identified as being the most lightly used so the stock was reallocated elsewhere to increase capacity on busier trains.

 

[sammyg901]

From my observation the timetable seems to be going OK, from what I've heard from friends there are a couple of problems in the AM peak - between 6.30-7am at High Wycombe / Beaconsfield there are a few short trains that have come from far out which are very busy. The bulk of the capacity only runs a bit later. Also an issue around 9am from Banbury with a couple of short trains then too.

Evening peak seems to be OK

Aylesbury Vale Parkway peak service is about right for the demand, there is a bit of a gap in the morning but you work around it, services in the evening more or less every 30 mins.

Lots of shortforming still at the moment though with a few units gathering dust and dirt at Aylesbury!

 

[LordFlashheart]

As you might expect due to the time of day, those services were identified as being the most lightly used so the stock was reallocated elsewhere to increase capacity on busier trains.

But they are used, just slightly less than the others. Same as trains from Aylesbury, they are used but they've been removed anyway.

The Met line is treated with contempt by Chiltern nowadays. Football at Wembley, cancel trains all day. Singalong at Wembley, cancel the evening trains. Get a bus to Beaconsfield instead. No idea why they don't just say use the Met from Amersham or run a shuttle Aylesbury to Amersham

 

[12LDA28C]

But they are used, just slightly less than the others. Same as trains from Aylesbury, they are used but they've been removed anyway.

The Met line is treated with contempt by Chiltern nowadays. Football at Wembley, cancel trains all day. Singalong at Wembley, cancel the evening trains. Get a bus to Beaconsfield instead. No idea why they don't just say use the Met from Amersham or run a shuttle Aylesbury to Amersham

Chiltern attempt to match the provision of stock to passenger demand, which is why those services were cut from the timetable to provide capacity where it is needed more. Although I agree, the service on the Met could be better, and cancelling trains on the Met due to a concert at Wembley is completely unacceptable.

 

[md2016]

From my observation the timetable seems to be going OK, from what I've heard from friends there are a couple of problems in the AM peak - between 6.30-7am at High Wycombe / Beaconsfield there are a few short trains that have come from far out which are very busy. The bulk of the capacity only runs a bit later. Also an issue around 9am from Banbury with a couple of short trains then too.

Evening peak seems to be OK

Aylesbury Vale Parkway peak service is about right for the demand, there is a bit of a gap in the morning but you work around it, services in the evening more or less every 30 mins.

Lots of shortforming still at the moment though with a few units gathering dust and dirt at Aylesbury!

When trains aren't shortforming, the morning capacity feels about right.

The evening capacity on the slower trains to GX and Beaconsfield aren't great though on Tues-Thurs. Unless you're at the station well in advance, they've gone from standing for 20-25 minutes to standing for 30-35 minutes. As an aside, the Oxford service also seems to frequently slow down/ stop short of Seer Green, adding delays to that service.

Now the Nuneham viaduct has reopened, it would surely be more efficient to many more people to switch Beaconsfield and Seer Green on the Oxford/ High Wycombe service. As others have said, it's bizarre that Beaconsfield is one of the only stations that is faster off-peak than on-peak, when it is one of the busier stations. But I think they've sacrificed it to justify running the slower services.

 

[sammyg901]

Yes it does seem like a bad deal for Beaconsfield. Not an easy fix within the current setup as the Oxford services for passengers from stations like Bicester Village are already pretty slow, especially compared to pre-COVID

Seer Green is already a call in the xx.15 Oxfords. I wonder if they'd consider Beaconsfield in the xx.45 or just add it into a Birmingham service. Suspect all these services are also pretty busy though !

 

[LordFlashheart]

Chiltern attempt to match the provision of stock to passenger demand, which is why those services were cut from the timetable to provide capacity where it is needed more. Although I agree, the service on the Met could be better, and cancelling trains on the Met due to a concert at Wembley is completely unacceptable.

I would disagree about capacity, the problems are surely of Chilterns own making with failing to maintain their stock or plan stock replacements properly, resulting in shortages. This only reveals how short of stock they are if they have to cut a handful of trains to bolster other services. There doesn't seem to be any plans to sort that out, even longterm.

Weekends it's now an hourly service all day for the Met. Feels like the 80's all over again.........

 

[sammyg901]

Not all day - the "peak" is half hourly

 

[Kite159]

Not all day - the "peak" is half hourly

And I hope they are sending out more than a single 2 coach unit during the times of the day they deem "off-peak" at weekends when the service drops to hourly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I hope they are sending out more than a single 2 coach unit during the times of the day they deem "off-peak" at weekends when the service drops to hourly.

They are sending out 2 car sets which appear from anecdotal experience to be sufficient. The weekend leisure traffic on Chiltern Met services is tiny.

 

[david1212]

I would disagree about capacity, the problems are surely of Chilterns own making with failing to maintain their stock or plan stock replacements properly, resulting in shortages. This only reveals how short of stock they are if they have to cut a handful of trains to bolster other services. There doesn't seem to be any plans to sort that out, even longterm.

Back to the end of 2019 Chiltern had been run by Arriva for a few years with a very different style than the days of Adrian Shooter and Rob Brighouse. Had the style of latter continued Chiltern would have entered 2020 in a much better state. Even so how much of the current shortcomings are really of Chilterns own making rather than beyond their control? First the supply of parts is a network wide issue. Second staffing disputes both maintenance and operation are overall in the hands of the DfT / Treasury. Likewise stock, even if units were available at the depots would they be allowed to use them and are the Class 68 and stock sets fully utilised after allowing for maintenance? Longer term unless significant changes in policy again the DfT / Treasury will dictate any replacement stock new or cascaded.

 

[LordFlashheart]

They are sending out 2 car sets which appear from anecdotal experience to be sufficient. The weekend leisure traffic on Chiltern Met services is tiny.

You clearly don't suffer Chiltern. Is weekend leisure traffic 'tiny' now because we can't rely on it? Football, cancel all trains, concert cancel all or some trains. West Coast shut, cancel all trains.

its more reliable to drive to Amersham, Chesham or Chalfont. Princes Risborough car parking is extortionate so no one goes there.

Evening hourly service more often 2 cars, full and standing is not a way to improve passenger numbers. Everyone seems to miss the point that Chiltern used to have enough stock, and now they don't. What's gone wrong?