Chiltern NIP

[SillyTrains]

I received a NIP from Chiltern railways this morning:

Following an investigation by Chiltern Railways Fraud Unit, we have identified that you travelled onxxxxx October 2024 to xxxxx , you failed to purchase a valid rail ticket for your entire rail journey.

We submitted a data access request Under Schedule 2 Part 1 Paragraph 2 of the Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR Article 6 (1) (d), to various rail ticket retailers, which has revealed that you may have avoided your correct rail fare on other occasions.

The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the report and of any action that may follow from it, and to provide you with the opportunity to inform us of any mitigation that you may wish to be considered. This can be sent via email; [email protected]

The report of this incident indicates that in the absence of a satisfactory explanation, evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. These considerations may include whether any charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005), or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

You are therefore advised to seek out independent legal advice from a Solicitor trained in criminal law and who is registered with the Law Society. It would also be an advantage if they have knowledge of rail fare law, as this is a specialised area.

The company considers this a serious matter, and if we do not hear from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, this matter will be passed to our Prosecuting Authority with a view to obtaining a Summons to a Magistrates' Court hearing,

In my haste I responded with:
Hello,

Thank you for this email.

I am concerned about the below as I have a valid ticket for a journey on xxx October for xxx with the booking reference xxxx . I also have a valid return ticket to Denham on the same day reference xxxx.

I can provide evidence of parking paid at xxxx station on the same day to demonstrate that my journey started and ended from that point.

To be accused of fraud when I have a valid ticket for the journey made is a disappointing example of customer service from Chiltern Railways and has caused distress.
(End message)

Context:

I purchased my ticket after boarding the train so accept that this is fault. When inspected at end station, I walked off from the RPI after ticket scanned as there were no barriers and I suffer from anxiety which the staff members manner triggered.

All previous journeys have valid tickets however I suspect they may believe I have been shorting as they were only for 1 stop - however this is what I travelled. I have receipts from the station car park on the days travelled which I am hopeful demonstrate that I haven’t been shorting?

What are my options here, for the 1 journey do I concede back to Chiltern and offer to pay? Or wait for a response, which I am worried may be straight to prosecution?

Thanks

 

[Haywain]

What are my options here, for the 1 journey do I concede back to Chiltern and offer to pay? Or wait for a response, which I am worried may be straight to prosecution?

Now that you have responded, the best thing will be to wait and see what happens. It may be nothing, or you may receive a further letter or even prosecution papers. The one useful detail for us would be whether this incident occurred at the start or end of October, as this affects how much of the 6 months available to prosecute remains.

 

[SillyTrains]

It was the 10th October

Now that you have responded, the best thing will be to wait and see what happens. It may be nothing, or you may receive a further letter or even prosecution papers. The one useful detail for us would be whether this incident occurred at the start or end of October, as this affects how much of the 6 months available to prosecute remains.

It was 10th October

 

[WesternLancer]

Now that you have responded, the best thing will be to wait and see what happens. It may be nothing, or you may receive a further letter or even prosecution papers. The one useful detail for us would be whether this incident occurred at the start or end of October, as this affects how much of the 6 months available to prosecute remains.

Given the tone of the inital response from the OP - I'm tempted to think instead of leaving it with this 'rebuttal' about having done nothing wrong, I might be tempted to:

- send a follow up essentially explaining that since the earlier e-mail was sent the OP has now understood how what they did was wrong (falling to buy before boarding), now understand this is not permitted, and request that they be allowed to settle the matter without the need for prosecution / court threat.

As long as the ref numbers are on all the correspondence I would assume it would be matched up.

My reasoning being that we have seen other cases where people have replied to train companies but not accepted they did anything wrong, and thus not offering to settle matters, and they have then just been escalated to court, leaving a shorter time for the person concerned to urgently try and get court papers withdrawn, and probably incurring further 'admin costs' as the railway has spent time and money on preparing court paperwork.

I would suggest @SillyTrains considers this course of action.

 

[AlterEgo]

All previous journeys have valid tickets however I suspect they may believe I have been shorting as they were only for 1 stop - however this is what I travelled. I have receipts from the station car park on the days travelled which I am hopeful demonstrate that I haven’t been shorting?

What are the one stop journeys in question and which station car park do you have receipts for?

 

[SillyTrains]

What are the one stop journeys in question and which station car park do you have receipts for?

Denham > Wembley Stadium and Denham Station car park

To be clear, I am not sure what further journeys they are investigating however these are the only travel I do with Chiltern and are very infrequent.

 

[WesternLancer]

To be clear, I am not sure what further journeys they are investigating however these are the only travel I do with Chiltern and are very infrequent.

Possibly just standard wording as rail companies now have IT systems for easily checking digital fingerprints (tickets bought online with barcodes and bar codes give them lots of information about things like ticket barrier gate scan times, scan locations, time ticket bought, train used on if checked on board etc etc), and meanwhile they know that they rarely catch people (esp genuine evaders) first time they evade, so they can then trawl data to find other evasion and seek to recoup it.

If you've not done anything wrong then they won't find anything (potentially helps if you can provide some evidence as to why you go to that destination, if you need to offer it to them, but until they accuse you of something for other occasion keep that for your own records if needed).

The problem is that by failing to 'buy before you board' you have committed an offence, which in England also happens to be a criminal offence with origins in Victorian railway ticket laws, and now you are on their radar so a good chance they will check records just because they do that for most people.

At the moment, it seems to be your key issue is to resolve the problem that they caught you doing, before that escalates. You need to be telling them that in no way was it an attempt to not pay your correct fare (so not deliberate evasion).

 

[SillyTrains]

Possibly just standard wording as rail companies now have IT systems for easily checking digital fingerprints (tickets bought on line with barcodes and bar codes give them lots of information about things like ticket barrier gate scan times, scan locations, time ticket bought, train used on if checked on board etc etc), and meanwhile they know that they rarely catch people (esp genuine evaders) first time they evade, so they can then trawl data to find other evasion and seek to recoup it.

If you've not done anything wrong then they won't find anything (potentially helps if you can provide some evidence as to why yuo go to that destination, if you need to offer it to them, but until they accuse you of something for other occasion keep that for your own records if needed).

the problem is that buy failing to 'buy before you board' you have committed an offence, which in England also happens to be a criminal offence with origins in Victorian railway ticket laws, and now you are on their radar so a good chance they will check records just because they do that for most people.

At the moment it seems to be your key issue is to resolve the problem that they caught you doing, before that escalates. You need to be telling them that in no way was it an attempt to not pay your correct fare (so not deliberate evasion).

Would you recommend following up now or waiting for response? I don’t really want to wait for a court summons but also don’t want to draw further attention to my case if close to the 6 month deadline

 

[AlterEgo]

Denham > Wembley Stadium and Denham Station car park

To be clear, I am not sure what further journeys they are investigating however these are the only travel I do with Chiltern and are very infrequent.

They are likely more concerned about the Wembley Stadium part as this is a hotbed for short faring (though a more likely situation is people having Wembley-Marylebone tickets and going from further afield to London) - can you evidence your presence in Wembley?

 

[SillyTrains]

They are likely more concerned about the Wembley Stadium part as this is a hotbed for short faring (though a more likely situation is people having Wembley-Marylebone tickets and going from further afield to London) - can you evidence your presence in Wembley?

I would have a record of attending events at the stadium yes

 

[AlterEgo]

I would have a record of attending events at the stadium yes

Best to have those to hand - but as it stands, I don't think you should do anything just yet in case they foul the 6 month deadline.

 

[SillyTrains]

Best to have those to hand - but as it stands, I don't think you should do anything just yet in case they foul the 6 month deadline.

Even with my rebuttal potentially leading them to escalate?

 

[AlterEgo]

Even with my rebuttal potentially leading them to escalate?

They won't have any avenues to escalate if they haven't laid papers by the 10th; when was your last reply to them?

 

[SillyTrains]

They won't have any avenues to escalate if they haven't laid papers by the 10th; when was your last reply to them?

This morning, I also only received the NIP via email today

 

[AlterEgo]

This morning, I also only received the NIP via email today

I'd leave it for now - your reply may trigger them to do something, but they have only a week in which to action anything. If they do issue a SJPN you can usually still respond and apologise/provide proof etc ask them to withdraw it (the court case does not happen immediately).

 

[SillyTrains]

I'd leave it for now - your reply may trigger them to do something, but they have only a week in which to action anything. If they do issue a SJPN you can usually still respond and apologise/provide proof etc ask them to withdraw it (the court case does not happen immediately).

Why do they only have a week? Isn’t 6 months from October, April?

If a SJPN is issued is solicitor advice necessary?

 

[greatkingrat]

I'd leave it for now - your reply may trigger them to do something, but they have only a week in which to action anything. If they do issue a SJPN you can usually still respond and apologise/provide proof etc ask them to withdraw it (the court case does not happen immediately).

I think you have miscalculated? If the incident occurred on 10th October, the deadline is 10th April, not 10th March.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think you have miscalculated? If the incident occurred on 10th October, the deadline is 10th April, not 10th March.

Ah yes, my apologies!

I think then, I would wait for Chiltern's reply first, and then see what they say.

 

[SillyTrains]

Ah yes, my apologies!

I think then, I would wait for Chiltern's reply first, and then see what they say.

thank you. Do you think they will respond or just go straight to the SJPN?

Do you think sending the below would be worthwhile sending after my response earlier:

Dear Mr Chesson,

Thank you for your email regarding the incident on 10th October 2024.

I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for failing to purchase a correct ticket for my journey prior to boarding. I fully understand the seriousness of this matter and the impact fare evasion can have on the company, both in terms of lost revenue and the resources required to investigate such incidents.

I take full responsibility for the error and deeply regret the inconvenience caused to Chiltern Railways. I understand that it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will do so in future, and I can assure you that I will be diligent for future journeys.

If possible, I would like to resolve this matter without court action and I am happy to settle the outstanding fare as well as any associated administrative costs. I hope that we can find an amicable resolution.

I look forward to your guidance on how to proceed.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Haywain]

They won't have any avenues to escalate if they haven't laid papers by the 10th; when was your last reply to them?

10th April, not March.

 

[WesternLancer]

Would you recommend following up now or waiting for response? I don’t really want to wait for a court summons but also don’t want to draw further attention to my case if close to the 6 month deadline

This depends on your appetite for risk - you are clearly 'in their system' so I personally I think (just a personal opinion) that I doubt they are going to miss that deadline (I suspect you will just get court papers or SJPN papers before or soon after 10 April just so they can be sure they have not missed the deadline but you never know).

If you do that you may have to work harder, within a tighter timetable. to obtain the out of court settlement but I suspect still a good chance of achieving that. If you are up for that then take the risk. If you want to try and close the matter down asap then write back now.

Ref your draft in post #18 I tend to think you need to ref the content of your response to them as sent earlier today (where you refute failry robustly that you did anything wrong) as you are making a U turn with no explanation of why. I'd be explaining that you misunderstood the rules whether you send that sort of response as a follow up soon, or after you wait to see how they reply to your recent message (be aware that they may not reply - often the train companies move direct to court notice as next stage after considering your initial response, to save themselves admin I guess, but I'm not sure if Chiltern do that or not)

Of course you must decide what you are most comfortable doing.

Good luck whatever you opt to do.

 

[SillyTrains]

This depends on your appetite for risk - you are clearly 'in their system' so I personally I think (just a personal opinion) that I doubt they are going to miss that deadline (I suspect you will just get court papers or SJPN papers before or soon after 10 April just so they can be sure they have not missed the deadline but you never know).

If you do that you may have to work harder, within a tighter timetable. to obtain the out of court settlement but I suspect still a good chance of achieving that. If you are up for that then take the risk. If you want to try and close the matter down asap then write back now.

Ref your draft in post #18 I tend to think you need to ref the content of your response to them as sent earlier today (where you refute failry robustly that you did anything wrong) as you are making a U turn with no explanation of why. I'd be explaining that you misunderstood the rules whether you send that sort of response as a follow up soon, or after you wait to see how they reply to your recent message (be aware that they may not reply - often the train companies move direct to court notice as next stage after considering your initial response, to save themselves admin I guess, but I'm not sure if Chiltern do that or not)

Of course you must decide what you are most comfortable doing.

Good luck whatever you opt to do.

I have a low appetite for risk, so am considering inserting the following to before the first paragraph

Having taken time to consider further since my email at 9:07am on Monday 3rd March, I now accept and understand that failure to purchase a correct ticket prior to boarding does mean I traveled without a valid ticket on the date the incident references.

Thank you for your email regarding the incident on 10th October 2024.

Having taken time to correct my understanding of the appropriate rules, upon reflection following my email at 9:07am on Monday 3rd March, I now accept and understand that failure to purchase a correct ticket prior to boarding does mean I traveled between Denham and Wembley Stadium without a valid ticket on the date the incident references.

I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for failing to purchase the correct ticket for my journey prior to boarding. I fully understand the seriousness of this matter and the impact fare evasion can have on the company, both in terms of lost revenue and the resources required to investigate such incidents.

I take full responsibility for the error and deeply regret the inconvenience caused to Chiltern Railways. I understand that it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will do so in future, and I can assure you that I will be diligent for future journeys.

If possible, I would like to resolve this matter without court action and I am happy to settle the outstanding fare as well as any associated administrative costs. I hope that we can find a resolution.

I look forward to your guidance on how to proceed.

Yours sincerely,

 

[WesternLancer]

I have a low appetite for risk, so am considering inserting the following to before the first paragraph

Having taken time to consider further since my email at 9:07am on Monday 3rd March, I now accept and understand that failure to purchase a correct ticket prior to boarding does mean I traveled without a valid ticket on the date the incident references.


Thank you for your email regarding the incident on 10th October 2024.

Having taken time to correct my understanding of the appropriate rules, upon reflection following my email at 9:07am on Monday 3rd March, I now accept and understand that failure to purchase a correct ticket prior to boarding does mean I traveled between Denham and Wembley Stadium without a valid ticket on the date the incident references.

I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for failing to purchase the correct ticket for my journey prior to boarding. I fully understand the seriousness of this matter and the impact fare evasion can have on the company, both in terms of lost revenue and the resources required to investigate such incidents.

I take full responsibility for the error and deeply regret the inconvenience caused to Chiltern Railways. I understand that it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will do so in future, and I can assure you that I will be diligent for future journeys.

If possible, I would like to resolve this matter without court action and I am happy to settle the outstanding fare as well as any associated administrative costs. I hope that we can find a resolution.

I look forward to your guidance on how to proceed.

Yours sincerely,

That's the kind of addition I had in mind.

 

[SillyTrains]

That's the kind of addition I had in mind.

Is there anything else you would add or change?

 

[WesternLancer]

Is there anything else you would add or change?

I would insert the word 'now' and 'why' in this

I understand that it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will do so in future, and I can assure you that I will be diligent for future journeys.

so it says (italics not needed in what you send of course) :

I now understand why it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will do so in future, and I can assure you that I will be diligent for future journeys.

Very minor, but because it kind of supports your narrative that you didn't realise that there was something wrong with buying after boarding (hence your original reply)

Of course, if you think that's is helpful

The rest looks OK to me, but feel free to see if others suggest amends (you may need to wait until tomorrow morning to see however)

 

[SillyTrains]

I would insert the word 'now' and 'why' in this



so it says (italics not needed in what you send of course) :



Very minor, but because it kind of supports your narrative that you didn't realise that there was something wrong with buying after boarding (hence your original reply)

Of course, if you think that's is helpful

The rest looks OK to me, but feel free to see if others suggest amends (you may need to wait until tomorrow morning to see however)

Thank you Western Lancer

I would insert the word 'now' and 'why' in this



so it says (italics not needed in what you send of course) :



Very minor, but because it kind of supports your narrative that you didn't realise that there was something wrong with buying after boarding (hence your original reply)

Of course, if you think that's is helpful

The rest looks OK to me, but feel free to see if others suggest amends (you may need to wait until tomorrow morning to see however)

I have responded with

Dear Andrew Chesson,



Thank you for your email regarding the incident on 10th October 2024 - customer reference xxx.



Having taken time to correct my understanding of the appropriate rules, upon reflection following my email at 9:07am on Monday 3rd March stating I had a valid ticket, I now accept and understand that failure to purchase a ticket prior to boarding does mean I traveled between Denham and Wembley Stadium without a valid ticket on the date the incident references.

I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for failing to purchase the correct ticket for my journey prior to boarding. I fully understand the seriousness of this matter and the impact this can have on the company, both in terms of lost revenue and the resources required to investigate such incidents.

I take full responsibility for the error and deeply regret the inconvenience caused to Chiltern Railways. I now understand why it is important to ensure that all passengers pay the correct fare for their journey prior to boarding, and I promise that I will continue to do so in future, I can assure you that I will be diligent in my future journeys and that this is not a mistake I have made before or since this incident.

If possible, I would like to resolve this matter without court action and I am happy to settle the outstanding fare as well as any associated administrative costs. I hope that we can find a resolution.

I look forward to your guidance on how to proceed.

 

[island]

A proper letter should never be addressed "Dear Andrew Chesson". It is either "Dear Andrew" or "Dear Mr. Chesson", and I recommend the latter.

The third paragraph is just waffle and I would leave it out.

In the fourth paragraph, what you are "happy" to do is irrelevant. You are asking for them to exercise discretion in your favour. So something like "...and I would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for court action by making a payment for the outstanding fare and your administrative costs."

 

[SillyTrains]

I’ve not had a response from Chiltern yet, should I be overly concerned?

 

[30907]

I’ve not had a response from Chiltern yet, should I be overly concerned?

No. It can take several weeks, you are not the only one.

 

[Arish]

Have you heard a response yet?