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Class 175 to GWR

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RailUK Forums

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3RDGEN

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Hull
paultucker1012 said:
What equipment would need to be added to the barrier coaches to enable a towing loco to control the brakes on a 175?
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The 175 has an emergency option for dragging that gives a brake application on the unit based on the loco brake pipe but it's all or nothing, it doesn't give a gradual brake application on the unit based upon the demand from the loco so is probably not suitable for these long drags. You would need some electronics on the loco/barrier coach to translate it's brake demand to a matching demand on the unit and an electronic connection to the unit. I believe that's been done for some of the recent new build fleets but is probably not worth it for this relatively small number of moves.
 
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davetheguard

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Is there any news about what's actually going on with the contract signing for GWR to lease the 175s?

I pressume it's the Treasury stalling things while they count the beans over & over again. If so, these people
don't seem to have to work to deadlines.

We're already in the situation where extra infrastructure is going in on the Newquay branch,
but until the 175s are leased there's not the stock to increase the train frequency for
which the enhanced infrastructure is being provided. The improved frequency will now be delayed,
even if the lease was signed today.

Indeed, is the lease being signed a given, or could it all still fall through?
 
A

Anonymous10

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19 Dec 2019
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wales
davetheguard said:
Is there any news about what's actually going on with the contract signing for GWR to lease the 175s?

I pressume it's the Treasury stalling things while they count the beans over & over again. If so, these people
don't seem to have to work to deadlines.

We're already in the situation where extra infrastructure is going in on the Newquay branch,
but until the 175s are leased there's not the stock to increase the train frequency for
which the enhanced infrastructure is being provided. The improved frequency will now be delayed,
even if the lease was signed today.

Indeed, is the lease being signed a given, or could it all still fall through?
Click to expand...
Given they're being delivered i should assume it's happening
 
S

simonmpoulton

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2011
Messages
186
davetheguard said:
Is there any news about what's actually going on with the contract signing for GWR to lease the 175s?

I pressume it's the Treasury stalling things while they count the beans over & over again. If so, these people
don't seem to have to work to deadlines.

We're already in the situation where extra infrastructure is going in on the Newquay branch,
but until the 175s are leased there's not the stock to increase the train frequency for
which the enhanced infrastructure is being provided. The improved frequency will now be delayed,
even if the lease was signed today.

Indeed, is the lease being signed a given, or could it all still fall through?
Click to expand...
The lease has already been signed - i'm sure there was a link earlier in this thread linking directly to the contract on the governments tender website.

Edit - found it Lease of Class 175 DMUS
 
G

Goldfish62

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Messages
11,663
simonmpoulton said:
The lease has already been signed - i'm sure there was a link earlier in this thread linking directly to the contract on the governments tender website.

Edit - found it Lease of Class 175 DMUS
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That's the notice of intention to award the contract. Note this section:
First Greater Western Limited intends to award the Contract on a date following conclusion of the voluntary standstill period (i.e. no earlier than 10th September 2024).
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What we don't know is if the award was actually made after 10 September 2024 or whether it's being delayed.
 
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simonmpoulton

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Messages
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Goldfish62 said:
That's the notice of intention to award the contract. Note this section:

What we don't know is if the award was actually made after 10 September 2024 or whether it's being delayed.
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Read Section V - it says a contract is awarded. It's the same page from the intention to award all the way through to awarding the contract. At the end of the day I doubt they have to publish the signed lease in public anywhere.
 
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davetheguard

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If the lease has been signed, I'm surprised it has not been announced.

And if any of the local train crews are being trained I've not yet come across any.
 
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Goldfish62

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simonmpoulton said:
Read Section V - it says a contract is awarded. It's the same page from the intention to award all the way through to awarding the contract. At the end of the day I doubt they have to publish the signed lease in public anywhere.
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The notice was published on 29 August advising of the intention to award and that the standstill period would run until 10 September. Therefore at the time of the publication of the notice, ie 29 August, the contract was not awarded.
 
FGW_DID

FGW_DID

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Class15 said:
Remember the 769s? All ready to enter service and then they were not used by GWR.
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Ready to enter service may be pushing it a bit!
There were only 6 of the fleet that had been ’fettled’ to a usable state plus there was the small issue of not a single driver* trained on them.
The lease was due to expire and DfT were requiring cuts to be made, the 769s were the obvious sacrificial goat!

*There was a small handful of Driver Managers & depot staff trained.
 
The exile

The exile

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davetheguard said:
If the lease has been signed, I'm surprised it has not been announced.
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With any luck the only thing that signifies is a final realisation on the part of the powers that be that endless repetition of fanfares and press releases months / years before anything actually happens are in the long term counterproductive. Time (at last?) to bury the spin-doctors.
 
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irish_rail

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Certain changes required to the cab before training can begin, including an IET type drivers seat, removal of the DAS screen, repositioning of the GSMR equipment, repositioning of the AWS sunflower, to name a few. Absolutely no traincrew yet trained, and to my knowledge even the driver manager who will be doing the initial driver training is also still awaiting his training, so it certainly looks more likely to be a marathon than a sprint! On the plus side, HSTs to remain until December now (apparently).
 
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Towers

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irish_rail said:
Certain changes required to the cab before training can begin, including an IET type drivers seat, removal of the DAS screen, repositioning of the GSMR equipment, repositioning of the AWS sunflower, to name a few. Absolutely no traincrew yet trained, and to my knowledge even the driver manager who will be doing the initial driver training is also still awaiting his training, so it certainly looks more likely to be a marathon than a sprint! On the plus side, HSTs to remain until December now (apparently).
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Is there room for an “IET type drivers seat” in the cab of a DMU?! Particularly considering that the cabs have external doors, I would have thought that might be a bit of a stretch?!
 
43096

43096

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irish_rail said:
Certain changes required to the cab before training can begin, including an IET type drivers seat, removal of the DAS screen, repositioning of the GSMR equipment, repositioning of the AWS sunflower, to name a few. Absolutely no traincrew yet trained, and to my knowledge even the driver manager who will be doing the initial driver training is also still awaiting his training, so it certainly looks more likely to be a marathon than a sprint! On the plus side, HSTs to remain until December now (apparently).
Click to expand...
Why are those changes required?
 
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craigybagel

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irish_rail said:
Certain changes required to the cab before training can begin, including an IET type drivers seat, removal of the DAS screen, repositioning of the GSMR equipment, repositioning of the AWS sunflower, to name a few. Absolutely no traincrew yet trained, and to my knowledge even the driver manager who will be doing the initial driver training is also still awaiting his training, so it certainly looks more likely to be a marathon than a sprint! On the plus side, HSTs to remain until December now (apparently).
Click to expand...
As someone who drove 175s for several years , I'm not at all surprised by the seats or the DAS screen removal. The AWS sunflower positioning wasn't brilliant, but once you got used to it I never found it particularly annoying (what was more of an issue was that in common with a lot of older stock it didn't light up at night). I'm very surprised by the GSMR issue though, I wonder if they don't like the handset being so low?
Towers said:
Is there room for an “IET type drivers seat” in the cab of a DMU?! Particularly considering that the cabs have external doors, I would have thought that might be a bit of a stretch?!
Click to expand...
I'm assuming the issue is the existing 175 seat has a low back and no headrest. The cab is very roomy, much more so than we BR era DMUs, there's plenty of room to put a bigger seat in. The normal driving position is a bit further forward than the doors (which is why when it was previously suggested these units go to Chiltern I had to constantly remind people on these forums that they're not DOO suitable).

Snow1964 said:
I was wondering that too, if they were acceptable to the staff and unions in Wales, why not Cornwall too

Surely the drivers union is same union in both regions
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Normally it's a case that they (understandably) won't accept a downgrade in their conditions. If these units are replacing 800s, then ideally the cab needs to be as close as practical to the same standards as an 800.
 
The exile

The exile

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it clearly makes sense for things you quickly glance at to be in roughly the same place on everything you encounter.
 
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baza585

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craigybagel said:
As someone who drove 175s for several years , I'm not at all surprised by the seats or the DAS screen removal. The AWS sunflower positioning wasn't brilliant, but once you got used to it I never found it particularly annoying (what was more of an issue was that in common with a lot of older stock it didn't light up at night). I'm very surprised by the GSMR issue though, I wonder if they don't like the handset being so low?

I'm assuming the issue is the existing 175 seat has a low back and no headrest. The cab is very roomy, much more so than we BR era DMUs, there's plenty of room to put a bigger seat in. The normal driving position is a bit further forward than the doors (which is why when it was previously suggested these units go to Chiltern I had to constantly remind people on these forums that they're not DOO suitable).


Normally it's a case that they (understandably) won't accept a downgrade in their conditions. If these units are replacing 800s, then ideally the cab needs to be as close as practical to the same standards as an 800.
Click to expand...
Bus drivers seem to manage OK to drive older buses as well as newer buses, made by different manufacturers with switches in different places, in different stints on the same day

By all means replace the driver's seat with something better but I fail to see why significant cab alterations should be needed before the 175s enter service with GWR. Adequate training is essential but this seems OTT.

Has the industry learnt nothing from the 701 fiasco? Who is actually running the industry?
 
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craigybagel

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baza585 said:
Bus drivers seem to manage OK to drive older buses as well as newer buses, made by different manufacturers with switches in different places, in different stints on the same day

By all means replace the driver's seat with something better but I fail to see why significant cab alterations should be needed before the 175s enter service with GWR. Adequate training is essential but this seems OTT.
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It wasn't me who said it was a training issue. Many of the GWR drivers who end up driving these will be on the same days driving very different stock. It's something we're trained to do (speaking as someone who's traction card at its peak included 5 different DMUs, a loco and a a DVT).

Ergonomics and comfort wise however, that's a different matter. These units are likely to be around for many years, so ASLEF will want to ensure that they are comfortable places to spend many hours a day in working.
 
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John R

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craigybagel said:
It wasn't me who said it was a training issue. Many of the GWR drivers who end up driving these will be on the same days driving very different stock. It's something we're trained to do (speaking as someone who's traction card at its peak included 5 different DMUs, a loco and a a DVT).

Ergonomics and comfort wise however, that's a different matter. These units are likely to be around for many years, so ASLEF will want to ensure that they are comfortable places to spend many hours a day in working.
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I think the point is that those same units were being driven by ASLEF drivers day in day out for around 20 years, and presumably were deemed to be comfortable enough places to spend many hours a day working.
 
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michael74

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John R said:
I think the point is that those same units were being driven by ASLEF drivers day in day out for around 20 years, and presumably were deemed to be comfortable enough places to spend many hours a day working.
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But if there is an opportunity to put a better seat in, why not. Some (most) of the drivers seats in the 150s for instance are God awful, nothing more than a flip down bench.
 
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