Class 345 progress

[JonathanH]

In the opposite direction, 345022 was reported to have been dragged to Old Oak Depot this morning.

 

[JN114]

7 car 345007 was in service today on Readings

 

[kevin_roche]

I am not sure of software updates. No notices have been issued so far. Usually they get issued when the software gets updated and "interesting" new "features" are discovered!

Thank you for the information. If you do see a notice about that it would be great if you could let us know.

 

[rd749249]

This is a notice about this but it only states that it’s in preparation for FLUs on the east. The 7 cars will operate Reading services only when on the west, with the usual operational restrictions i.e. no Heathrow

 

[kevin_roche]

I'm wondering if this is because of a planned upgrade to the train based software in the 9 car units. It is costly to move 7 car units to the east so if there are 9 car units out of action while being upgraded any 7 car units might be needed. Has anyone any information on the upgrade? I may be imagining it, but I thought I read somewhere that it was scheduled shortly after the upgrade to ELR100 in the COS. I can't find the reference to it now.

Today at the London Assembly Transport Committee meeting Mark Wild has answered my question. The software on the 345s will be updated before Christmas. Andy Byford had just clarified that the new version number being installed is 5.4.

 

[JonathanH]

Three 7-car units out on Reading services this afternoon as shown on this excerpt from Tiger at Hayes & Harlington.

[Picture shows the 1617 and 1631 services to Reading and 1628 service to Paddington from Hayes & Harlington all formed of 7-coaches.]

Recent 7-car arrival 345022 appears to have been in service this morning, so I think now 7-car units 345003/007/014/022 are all available for service on the west side.

[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I22' cancelled at signal berth C311 having arrived at Old Oak Depot on '5Y21' around 0935 on 16 November].

Also, 345006 was reported to be at Old Oak Depot for conversion to 9-car length. As with previous units, a trip to signal berth 0142 seems to suggest that conversion is done.

[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I06' cancelled at signal berth C313 having travelled to signal berth 0142 around 1455 on 16 November].

I assume there must be an uplift in 9-car working on the east side to compensate for the movement of 7-car units.

 

[Horizon22]

I do find it a little odd Reading gets the 7-cars as these are by far the busiest trains of the three routes on the West. I will presume it is for diagram convenience rather than anything else.

 

[paulravuslante]

I do find it a little odd Reading gets the 7-cars as these are by far the busiest trains of the three routes on the West. I will presume it is for diagram convenience rather than anything else.

It’s required as we take over GWR peak services next month which run in / out of platform 14 at Pad. Platform 14 can only accommodate 7 car 345s.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s required as we take over GWR peak services next month which run in / out of platform 14 at Pad. Platform 14 can only accommodate 7 car 345s.

True but that is only a select number of peak trains. I don't believe any of those listed in the the Tiger screenshot above are those special peak diagrams that TfL have taken over from GWR (nor could they be as that timetable isn't running yet. Indeed regular TfL services are never timetabled to use P14.

 

[43096]

I do find it a little odd Reading gets the 7-cars as these are by far the busiest trains of the three routes on the West. I will presume it is for diagram convenience rather than anything else.

7-car sets can't do the Airport services due to the software version differences between the 7 and 9 car types.

 

[paulravuslante]

True but that is only a select number of peak trains. I don't believe any of those listed in the the Tiger screenshot above are those special peak diagrams that TfL have taken over from GWR (nor could they be as that timetable isn't running yet. Indeed regular TfL services are never timetabled to use P14.

Why would they have been timetabled to use platform 14 when all the units were 9 cars until the last few weeks?

The first train of the day to Heathrow becomes a Hayes train so it’s operationally safer to keep 9 car trains on both those services.

 

[hwl]

True but that is only a select number of peak trains. I don't believe any of those listed in the the Tiger screenshot above are those special peak diagrams that TfL have taken over from GWR (nor could they be as that timetable isn't running yet. Indeed regular TfL services are never timetabled to use P14.

The rolling stock software upgrade has been delayed till December and there is another signalling software update at Christmas too.
Having the diminishing number of 7 cars on the west side makes lots of sense as it reduces loco drag requirements (and cost) and means that any units awaiting conversion are close at hand.
A small number of 7car will presumably be needed till September when through running starts.

 

[Gulf1159]

That’s because the services haven’t been taken over yet. Its due to start from 12 December timetable change

 

[Horizon22]

The rolling stock software upgrade has been delayed till December and there is another signalling software update at Christmas too.
Having the diminishing number of 7 cars on the west side makes lots of sense as it reduces loco drag requirements (and cost) and means that any units awaiting conversion are close at hand.
A small number of 7car will presumably be needed till September when through running starts.

Fair enough. The latest I heard was that 7-cars could do Hayes (the natural preference) or Heathrow but still seems not to have changed.

Why would they have been timetabled to use platform 14 when all the units were 9 cars until the last few weeks?

The first train of the day to Heathrow becomes a Hayes train so it’s operationally safer to keep 9 car trains on both those services.

I never said they were - you brought up P14 initially. These are booked trains so will no doubt used the booked platforms (usually 12) which has no restrictions. What I'm saying is that 7-cars on Reading services is not ideal but this has been answered above as apparently they can still not run under ETCS / to Heathrow due to the software anomalies (which again I was under the impression had been resolved).

 

[43096]

Fair enough. The latest I heard was that 7-cars could do Hayes (the natural preference) or Heathrow but still seems not to have changed.

I never said they were - you brought up P14 initially. These are booked trains so will no doubt used the booked platforms (usually 12) which has no restrictions. What I'm saying is that 7-cars on Reading services is not ideal but this has been answered above as apparently they can still not run under ETCS / to Heathrow due to the software anomalies (which again I was under the impression had been resolved).

There's no point in Bombardier/Alstom putting any effort into the 7-car software version as ultimately the fleet will all be 9 car and there are more than enough 9 car sets to work the routes that must have them (Airport). Far better to get the 9 car "full" version working properly and put all the available software development resource into getting them running correctly.

 

[hwl]

Fair enough. The latest I heard was that 7-cars could do Hayes (the natural preference) or Heathrow but still seems not to have changed.



I never said they were - you brought up P14 initially. These are booked trains so will no doubt used the booked platforms (usually 12) which has no restrictions. What I'm saying is that 7-cars on Reading services is not ideal but this has been answered above as apparently they can still not run under ETCS / to Heathrow due to the software anomalies (which again I was under the impression had been resolved).

Heathrow needs to have ETCS functioning hence 9car. 7car software is still the older basic software without ETCS functionality

 

[Gulf1159]

Fair enough. The latest I heard was that 7-cars could do Hayes (the natural preference) or Heathrow but still seems not to have changed.



I never said they were - you brought up P14 initially. These are booked trains so will no doubt used the booked platforms (usually 12) which has no restrictions. What I'm saying is that 7-cars on Reading services is not ideal but this has been answered above as apparently they can still not run under ETCS / to Heathrow due to the software anomalies (which again I was under the impression had been resolved).

7 cars are not permitted on the Heathrow branch as the software isn’t compatible. 7 cars aren’t fitted with ETCS which the Heathrow branch needs. The 7 car units will never go to Heathrow

 

[Non Multi]

I do find it a little odd Reading gets the 7-cars as these are by far the busiest trains of the three routes on the West.

At the other end of the Reading route it's a lot, lot quieter... My last early evening trip between Twyford and Reading I had coaches 8 and 9 entirely to myself. This year I've only had 2 TfL Rail train journeys west of zone 6 that could be described as 'somewhat busy'.

*Waves to our friends on the crowded Shenfield route.*

 

[Horizon22]

Yes I'm not sure why I was thinking about 7-cars to Heathrow so ignore me there! But a Hayes diagram might be more approriate no?

At the other end of the Reading route it's a lot, lot quieter... My last early evening trip between Twyford and Reading I had coaches 8 and 9 entirely to myself. This year I've only had 2 TfL Rail train journeys west of zone 6 that could be described as 'somewhat busy'.

*Waves to our friends on the crowded Shenfield route.*

To be fair that is only one stop. I would say the Shenfield route is rather busy the few times I've been there but is also comparable at times to loadings east of say Maidenhead.

 

[paulravuslante]

Yes I'm not sure why I was thinking about 7-cars to Heathrow so ignore me there! But a Hayes diagram might be more approriate no?

The first train of the day to Heathrow becomes a Hayes train so it’s operationally safer to keep 9 car trains on both those services.

 

[Horizon22]

The first Hayes train of the day comes from Old Oak.

 

[JonathanH]

The unit working xx32 to Hayes & Harlington does Hayes workings all day starting 0532 from Paddington.

The unit working xx02 to Hayes & Harlington all day does 9T01 0442 London Paddington to Heathrow Central and return first.

 

[Horizon22]

The unit working xx32 to Hayes & Harlington does Hayes workings all day starting 0532 from Paddington.

The unit working xx02 to Hayes & Harlington all day does 9T01 0442 London Paddington to Heathrow Central and return first.

Indeed. I would have thought it is not beyond the realms of possibility to have 7-car working on the two Hayes diagrams (with some swap or alteration early in the day) for now but ultimately it's relatively short-term and not a priority issue.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Indeed. I would have thought it is not beyond the realms of possibility to have 7-car working on the two Hayes diagrams (with some swap or alteration early in the day) for now but ultimately it's relatively short-term and not a priority issue.

In an ideal world all effort will be going into converting the remaining 7-car 345s into their 9-car version asap - by adding the coaches already built.

 

[Horizon22]

In an ideal world all effort will be going into converting the remaining 7-car 345s into their 9-car version asap - by adding the coaches already built.

In an ideal world!

 

[Peter Sarf]

In an ideal world!

One day, one day, maybe soon....

 

[hwl]

One day, one day, maybe soon....

As 7cars will need to operate into P14 till next September (the most probably date for some services to start running through to the core - if the timetable aligns), it appears 7cars will be around for while yet. The current GWR Reading service times are the least likely to align with core running.

 

[59CosG95]

Is 345010 now a 9-car?

 

[JonathanH]

Is 345010 now a 9-car?

Yes, has been for some time - since May.

 

[59CosG95]

Yes, has been for some time - since May.

Thanks very much!