Class 379 cascade: what BR would have done

[gc4946]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-379’s-departure-from-greater-anglia.226784/


If this was old British Rail maximising its assets, then 379s transfer to GN lines, releasing 387s to Southern.
Once the newly arrived 387s arrived on Southern, then they'll displace 377s, of which some would be downgraded to all standard, replacing 455s.

 

[MCR247]

If this was old British Rail maximising its assets, then 379s transfer to GN lines, releasing 387s to Southern.
Once the newly arrived 387s arrived on Southern, then they'll displace 377s, of which some would be downgraded to all standard, replacing 455s.

The current plan is more effective at maximising assets though - withdrawing 455s without any incoming stock needed. I think most complaints are around the fact that this will result in changing services/lengths not for the benefit of passengers

 

[A0wen]

If this was old British Rail maximising its assets, then 379s transfer to GN lines, releasing 387s to Southern.
Once the newly arrived 387s arrived on Southern, then they'll displace 377s, of which some would be downgraded to all standard, replacing 455s.

Rose tinted glasses time again.

Yes BR did reallocate clapped out stock which should have been heading to the scrapyard - think the replacement of time expired DMUs with underpowered Cl 31s, the not particularly reliable Class 50s on the Waterloo - Exeter route with older and even less reliable Class 47s, knackered 30 year old Class 309s displaced from GE were sent to Regional Railways NW etc etc.

 

[Steve Harris]

Rose tinted glasses time again.

Yes BR did reallocate clapped out stock which should have been heading to the scrapyard - think the replacement of time expired DMUs with underpowered Cl 31s, the not particularly reliable Class 50s on the Waterloo - Exeter route with older and even less reliable Class 47s, knackered 30 year old Class 309s displaced from GE were sent to Regional Railways NW etc etc.

That isn't "rose tinted glasses", as gc4946 stated, it was BR maximising it's assests. ie. getting as much cash/use out of an assest before disposing of it.

 

[A0wen]

That isn't "rose tinted glasses", as gc4946 stated, it was BR maximising it's assests. ie. getting as much cash/use out of assest before disposing of it.

Yes, but the implication was it was somehow a good thing when BR did it and the privatised rail network didn't do it.

The reality is BR did some pretty shoddy things, such as those I cited. And it was under a privatised railway that the Class 90s moved from the WCML to the GEML, Class 321s were cascaded to Scotrail when their time was up on the WCML and 319s have been refurbed as AC only units and put to work on commuter routes in the NW, so I'm not aure what point gc4946 was trying to make as it doesn't seem to make sense......

 

[bramling]

Yes, but the implication was it was somehow a good thing when BR did it and the privatised rail network didn't do it.

The reality is BR did some pretty shoddy things, such as those I cited. And it was under a privatised railway that the Class 90s moved from the WCML to the GEML, Class 321s were cascaded to Scotrail when their time was up on the WCML and 319s have been refurbed as AC only units and put to work on commuter routes in the NW, so I'm not aure what point gc4946 was trying to make as it doesn't seem to make sense......

Pretty much anything has to be better than the current “let’s buy new, who cares about the old (*) it’s the leasing company’s problem” approach.

In my view this does not demonstrate a responsible manner of dealing with de-facto public assets, but then elements of this current government have form for this. Garden bridges and Boris bus, anyone?

* Old is of course something of a misnomer when it comes to stock which hasn’t even entered service such as the 707s.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Rose tinted glasses time again.

Yes BR did reallocate clapped out stock which should have been heading to the scrapyard - think the replacement of time expired DMUs with underpowered Cl 31s, the not particularly reliable Class 50s on the Waterloo - Exeter route with older and even less reliable Class 47s, knackered 30 year old Class 309s displaced from GE were sent to Regional Railways NW etc etc.

BR had no choice but to make the best use of what it had the Tories gave them barely enough cash to run the network but they kept it intact unlike many European countries when faced with a budget squeeze culled their networks. The 379's will find a new home this is a short term measure by DofT to save some cash as their budget hasn't been increased to cover Omicron impact on revenue and they have even less available for revenue support next year. Personally I would send them to the NW and redeploy the 323's to ScotRail so they can release the 318/320's.

 

[Class 466]

BR had no choice but to make the best use of what it had the Tories gave them barely enough cash to run the network but they kept it intact unlike many European countries when faced with a budget squeeze culled their networks. The 379's will find a new home this is a short term measure by DofT to save some cash as their budget hasn't been increased to cover Omicron impact on revenue and they have even less available for revenue support next year. Personally I would send them to the NW and redeploy the 323's to ScotRail so they can release the 318/320's.

318/320s are 20m coaches, 323s are 23. Would need some infrastructure works for sure

 

[A0wen]

BR had no choice but to make the best use of what it had the Tories gave them barely enough cash to run the network but they kept it intact unlike many European countries when faced with a budget squeeze culled their networks. The 379's will find a new home this is a short term measure by DofT to save some cash as their budget hasn't been increased to cover Omicron impact on revenue and they have even less available for revenue support next year. Personally I would send them to the NW and redeploy the 323's to ScotRail so they can release the 318/320's.

Not entirely true of course because under the Conservative government of 1979-1997, BR had the money to electrify the GE mainline from Colchester - Norwich, the GE and GN lines to Cambridge, the ECML, the Hastings line, Bournemouth - Weymouth as well as introduce the 14x and 15x classes of DMUs, the second batch of class 317s, the cl 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 365, 442, 455, 456 as well as class 90, 91, 58, 60.

Not bad for a railway which had "barely enough cash".

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not entirely true of course because under the Conservative government of 1979-1997, BR had the money to electrify the GE mainline from Colchester - Norwich, the GE and GN lines to Cambridge, the ECML, the Hastings line, Bournemouth - Weymouth as well as introduce the 14x and 15x classes of DMUs, the second batch of class 317s, the cl 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 365, 442, 455, 456 as well as class 90, 91, 58, 60.

Not bad for a railway which had "barely enough cash".

Fair point although many of those investments were largely funded from the sale of air rights at many London stations of course not from a commitment by govt to invest in the railways but nevertheless a huge amount was actually achieved in this period which hasn't been replicated since as you have rightly illuminated. I would also add they could get a lot more for the cash then as well.

 

[StewLane]

Not entirely true of course because under the Conservative government of 1979-1997, BR had the money to electrify the GE mainline from Colchester - Norwich, the GE and GN lines to Cambridge, the ECML, the Hastings line, Bournemouth - Weymouth as well as introduce the 14x and 15x classes of DMUs, the second batch of class 317s, the cl 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 365, 442, 455, 456 as well as class 90, 91, 58, 60.

Not bad for a railway which had "barely enough cash".

And Labour cancelled the channel tunnel…

 

[Irascible]

And Labour cancelled the channel tunnel…

Was that not in the middle of an energy crisis on top of the pound already collapsing? and the previous govt was who? we could do this back & forth all day.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

BR wouldn't have had a 379 cascade problem because it would not have been allowed the money to buy them in the first place.
GA's complete fleet replacement plan would not have been authorised under a BR regime, just the oldest stock would have been replaced (Mk3s and probably 317s).
The Stansted services would probably still be soldiering on with 322s, supplemented by other 30-year-old stock (and maybe 365s).