Class 387

[TRAX]

To me a size variation isn't enough to consider two bodies different. Same body panels, same windows, same doors, same roof, same chassis, etc. This is what makes the relation.
Otherwise we humans would all have completely different bodies as none are the same size, which would be nonsense.

 

[Domh245]

To me a size variation isn't enough to consider two bodies different. Same body panels, same windows, same doors, same roof, same chassis, etc. This is what makes the relation.
Otherwise we humans would all have completely different bodies as none are the same size, which would be nonsense.

From a technical point of view though, they are different. They have different jigs and moulds for manufacturing, different route clearances and safety cases, etc. For that matter, I think that due to the different width, the body panels and doors are differently shaped. It's all well and good making an analogy to humans, but humans aren't fabricated from stir welded aluminium extrusions with steel ends and fibreglass coverings.

 

[TRAX]

In this case the Desiro City 700 isn't of the same range as the Desiro City 707 ? ...
This is going nowhere.

 

[Domh245]

In this case the Desiro City 700 isn't of the same range as the Desiro City 707 ? ...
This is going nowhere.

It is. The 707 bodyshell is exactly the same as the 700 bodyshell.

Also, stop confusing bodyshells and families. The electrostar and the turbostar have different bodies, but are still part of the overarching -star family. Similarly, the Class 185 is part of the same family as the rest of the first generation UK desiros, and the 395 is part of the same family as the 800/801/802 fleets.

 

[Norwich317]

Just noticed that some barrier waggons left Crewe Basford Hall for Derby Litchurch Lane yesterday, followed by a move from Derby to Bletchley TMD which arrived late last night. Is this 387130? Can anyone confirm this? If it is, GWR 387 testing could start as early as next week!

Just search on Flickr for 387130 and you will find an image from last night.

 

[TRAX]

The electrostar and the turbostar have different bodies, but are still part of the overarching -star family. Similarly, the Class 185 is part of the same family as the rest of the first generation UK desiros, and the 395 is part of the same family as the 800/801/802 fleets.

This has been my point since the beginning !

 

[Class377/5]

It's still the same family. Surely there are other things more important to consider wrong on there ?

A full size Enviro300 bus doesn't have the same dimensions as a midi Enviro200 (which itself comes in different lengths) yet these are considered part of the same range (Enviro), no ? Yes. Thanks.

Important? Yes it's critically important as the gauge is physically different. This has a massive effect. It means platforms, signage etc must be a bigger distance from the track to the different overhang. Gauging is critical as ignoring like you suggest will lead to trains hitting objects like platforms on the route with the problems that will cause.

I cannot overstate the risk from the responsible running of the railways to the dangers ignoring this presents. It's like expecting a estate car to turn like a mini.

And that without the effect on it has on maintenance requiring different equipment etc.

 

[TRAX]

Nice, trying to show off "scientific knowledge" to prove a point I have never challenged, good ol' 377/5.

What does all this babble have to do with the fact that a 170 is of the same family as a 357 ? I'm quietly laughing here, thanks for that.
Isn't a Golf Estate in the same range (Golf, that is) as a Golf hatch ? Yes. They will still not drive in the same way. Doesn't make the Golf Estate a Passat. End of discussion on my side.

 

[Class377/5]

Nice, trying to show off "scientific knowledge" to prove a point I have never challenged, good ol' 377/5.

What does all this babble have to do with the fact that a 170 is of the same family as a 357 ? I'm quietly laughing here, thanks for that.
Isn't a Golf Estate in the same range (Golf, that is) as a Golf hatch ? Yes. They will still not drive in the same way. Doesn't make the Golf Estate a Passat. End of discussion on my side.

Scientific knowledge? You actually did claim something contrary , hence all the other posters making the point too of sigificant differences between body and family. Will pur future post in knows nothing box then on the basis of your posts (more 'scientific knowldege' or what people call facts). Seem your incapable of actually understanding this very important point, but you've given up thankfully pursuing this line of questioning.

Now back to the 387s, was it reported 387227 is now in traffic? Saw it myself this morning.

 

[Mordac]

Now back to the 387s, was it reported 387227 is now in traffic? Saw it myself this morning.

Is that all the GatEX ones in service now (even if some are with TL)?

 

[Class377/5]

Is that all the GatEX ones in service now (even if some are with TL)?

All the 387/2 I think have been in service. Not sure 225 has been in but all others have.

 

[JonathanH]

All the 387/2 I think have been in service. Not sure 225 has been in but all others have.

387225 was in service on Monday this week so yes, all in service, but of course, 387201-3/6/22/3 haven't yet operated for Gatwick Express.

 

[Harbornite]

I assume that the test runs between Crewe and Wembley have ceased for Thamleslink and GatEx liveried units? Obviously I am aware that we will eventually see GWR liveried units on test but that's not what I'm enquiring about.
Cheers.

 

[Class377/5]

I assume that the test runs between Crewe and Wembley have ceased for Thamleslink and GatEx liveried units? Obviously I am aware that we will eventually see GWR liveried units on test but that's not what I'm enquiring about.
Cheers.

Those runs are for commissioning, all TL/GatEx have been commissioned now. However maybe some TL 387 runs as part of the software updates.

 

[Chris125]

As you allude to though, the internal framed bogies are rather a rarity with the -star fleets at the moment though, they are only fitted to the 172s, whilst everything else uses the standard outboard bogie. I make that 183 instances of the Flexx eco bogie vs several thousand of the traditional bogie.

Weren't the flexx-eco bogies proposed for the 379s at one point?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Weren't the flexx-eco bogies proposed for the 379s at one point?

Sort of - Bombardier didn't want to build the Class 379s as Electrostars, it wanted to build the contract as Aventra units.

 

[Class455]

Saw GWR 387 130 and 387 131 passing South Croydon today while I was on 455 805 on the 569C 08:36 test from Bletchley. it's strange to see they have third rail shoe gears on them.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P90300/2016/07/14/advanced

 

[leomartin125]

Saw GWR 387 130 and 387 131 passing South Croydon today while I was on 455 805 on the 569C 08:36 test from Bletchley. it's strange to see they have third rail shoe gears on them.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P90300/2016/07/14/advanced

Nice to hear testing has begun on GWR's first Class 387 units. I am surprised to hear that too, could it possibly be so that if the mainline to Paddington is closed, they can divert to Waterloo like the HST's do? Either that or maybe the 'Gatwick Airport' and 'Redhill' to Reading runs could be overtaken by 387's too, would be perfect for them...

Also I was under the impression that they would be tested up to Crewe alike with the GX 387 units, clearly not!

 

[RobShipway]

Nice to hear testing has begun on GWR's first Class 387 units. I am surprised to hear that too, could it possibly be so that if the mainline to Paddington is closed, they can divert to Waterloo like the HST's do? Either that or maybe the 'Gatwick Airport' and 'Redhill' to Reading runs could be overtaken by 387's too, would be perfect for them...

Also I was under the impression that they would be tested up to Crewe alike with the GX 387 units, clearly not!

For the Reading - Gatwick/Redhill route they would need to be battery packed as well as having AC/DC capability as there is parts of this line where 3rd rail does not exist.

 

[Class377/5]

Got pictures. Will upload shortly when I'm back home.

 

[387star]

Got sent this

 

[Class455]

Got pictures. Will upload shortly when I'm back home.

It's due back at Purley at 17:17 so I might go and spot them later.

 

[Domh245]

Got sent this

Same seat pattern as the 150s then

 

[387star]

Looks same as gtr interior wise

 

[Class377/5]

Inside the GWR 387s have the same layout as the GTR 387s. This make sense as the first 8 (that are now built) were part of that order.

387130


387130 at Brighton

387131


387131 at Brighton

Where the first class is on the 387/2, 377/6 and 377/7...


First Class area in 387/2

Standard class


Standard class

Mid carriage numbers plus showing the GatEx software used for testing (makes sense as you can check the GPS is working correctly)


387130 side going GatEx software in action

 

[jon0844]

Got sent this

See Bombardier are using higher quality materials for the tables now then.

(Seriously though, looking at the other photos, they look smart. Rather like the 379s do, or did before getting quite tired inside).

 

[Fincra5]

Shame SN didn't think of that kind of livery years ago. I like it, simple yet smart.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nice to hear testing has begun on GWR's first Class 387 units. I am surprised to hear that too, could it possibly be so that if the mainline to Paddington is closed, they can divert to Waterloo like the HST's do? Either that or maybe the 'Gatwick Airport' and 'Redhill' to Reading runs could be overtaken by 387's too, would be perfect for them...

Also I was under the impression that they would be tested up to Crewe alike with the GX 387 units, clearly not!

Testing them on DC to Brighton doesn't preclude testing them on AC to Crewe. The only difference here is that they've appeared in the DC area before they've been to Crewe. The Southern batch mostly did test running on AC first, but I can't see why the order matters.

The pick up shoes have been known about since the first photos appeared a couple of months back, I doubt it really has anything to do with Waterloo diversions, just that as discussed at the time, they are a follow on batch and basically the same unit as Southern's 387/1s.

 

[Class377/5]

Testing them on DC to Brighton doesn't preclude testing them on AC to Crewe. The only difference here is that they've appeared in the DC area before they've been to Crewe. The Southern batch mostly did test running on AC first, but I can't see why the order matters.

The pick up shoes have been known about since the first photos appeared a couple of months back, I doubt it really has anything to do with Waterloo diversions, just that as discussed at the time, they are a follow on batch and basically the same unit as Southern's 387/1s.

I'm wondering if DC testing is going to get done first then AC testing will be done on GWML. The reason behind me thinking this is there was GWR Reading staff (was on their hi vis) on board. Would then make sense.

Technically the testing can be anything. All that matters is its fault free and has a path! Note the 387 testing has been AC mon/fri and DC tues/wed/thurs.

 

[swt_passenger]

Technically the testing can be anything. All that matters is its fault free and has a path! Note the 387 testing has been AC mon/fri and DC tues/wed/thurs.

Aye, so this time tomorrow it could be situation normal.

According to the RTT links posted earlier the trains are on a pretty typical round trip from Bletchley anyway, via the WLL, so there'll be some AC running as well.

Edited to add that there was an overnight run Bletchley to Crewe and back activated for tonight, although it doesn't seem to be running so far, looking at RTT just now...