Class 387

[Domh245]

May I ask why the GWR Class 387's have a shoe gear? I saw it yesterday at Southall and couldn't help but admire that snazzy shoe gear it isn't likely to use at all during it's operation. Is it just a design thing, you can't have a 387 without dual mode operation, as that would make it a Class 386 or something?

Because that's the design. It's cheaper to have the shoegear and never use it, than having to redesign and re-certify a new bogie without it.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Because that's the design. It's cheaper to have the shoegear and never use it, than having to redesign and re-certify a new bogie without it.

The shoegear unbolts, it doesn't need to be fitted.

The plan seems involve keeping them fitted, the dual voltage capability is certainly likely to come in useful in the next 10 or 12 years though.

 

[RobShipway]

If the class 387's are ever changed to be IPEMU units with battery packs, then the shoegear will be useful on the Reading - Redhill/Gatwick services.

 

[AM9]

The shoegear unbolts, it doesn't need to be fitted.

The plan seems involve keeping them fitted, the dual voltage capability is certainly likely to come in useful in the next 10 or 12 years though.

I suspect that every class 387 is certified with all electrical equipment fitted irrespective of its destination. That is how Bombardier can manage these add-on orders. If a customer insisted that a train was delivered without DC shoes, it would involve the creation of different manufacturing parts provisioning, reduced (i.e. different) test and inspection schedules and changes to deliverable documentation. With sub-order quantities of less than 30 units, the above raft of changes/deviations from the primary production standard would cost a lot more than a dozen sets of shoes and mounting hardware.
On delivery to the customer, there will be a documented procedure showing how to remove the redundant hardware (and store it), make any modifications to the software configuration and partially certify at a new build standard. Given that all of these 387s are RoSCo owned, they would rather be able to return any unit to a more useful DV standard without paying the manufacturer to add the items in as a modification.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I suspect that every class 387 is certified with all electrical equipment fitted irrespective of its destination. That is how Bombardier can manage these add-on orders. If a customer insisted that a train was delivered without DC shoes, it would involve the creation of different manufacturing parts provisioning, reduced (i.e. different) test and inspection schedules and changes to deliverable documentation. With sub-order quantities of less than 30 units, the above raft of changes/deviations from the primary production standard would cost a lot more than a dozen sets of shoes and mounting hardware.
On delivery to the customer, there will be a documented procedure showing how to remove the redundant hardware (and store it), make any modifications to the software configuration and partially certify at a new build standard. Given that all of these 387s are RoSCo owned, they would rather be able to return any unit to a more useful DV standard without paying the manufacturer to add the items in as a modification.

I'm not talking about changes to orders or any of that complexity, I'm talking about simply unbolting the shoes after the testing has been completed and storing them. They do unbolt, there's no need for units operating exclusively on AC to retain them, but it seems they'll keep them. There's no modifications necessary to do this, they don't deviate from any standard specification or anything like that.

The Class 350/1 fleet retain their shoe-gear mounting brackets but don't actually carry their shoe-gear around in service all day, every day. It was re-fitted when Southern needed the units to operate the East Croyton to Milton Keynes run, and it was removed when they returned to exclusive WCML duties.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not talking about changes to orders or any of that complexity, I'm talking about simply unbolting the shoes after the testing has been completed and storing them. They do unbolt, there's no need for units operating exclusively on AC to retain them, but it seems they'll keep them. There's no modifications necessary to do this, they don't deviate from any standard specification or anything like that.

The Class 350/1 fleet retain their shoe-gear mounting brackets but don't actually carry their shoe-gear around in service all day, every day. It was re-fitted when Southern needed the units to operate the East Croyton to Milton Keynes run, and it was removed when they returned to exclusive WCML duties.

As I keep posting, a significant number of 350/1s were still running around with their shoes fitted a year ago, well after use on DC finished, e.g. 350120 shown below; however they are not easily visible in the raised position.

I haven't seen the whole sub fleet, or checked any recently, but I don't think that the situation is as black and white as often posted.

 

[Class377/5]

May I ask why the GWR Class 387's have a shoe gear? I saw it yesterday at Southall and couldn't help but admire that snazzy shoe gear it isn't likely to use at all during it's operation. Is it just a design thing, you can't have a 387 without dual mode operation, as that would make it a Class 386 or something?

The shoegear unbolts, it doesn't need to be fitted.

The plan seems involve keeping them fitted, the dual voltage capability is certainly likely to come in useful in the next 10 or 12 years though.

So far the c2c 387 are the first 387s from the second order. All TL, GatEx and the first 8 GWR units were ordered by Govia as part of the 319 cascade.

Note it makes sense for the c2c units to be dual voltage as they don't have a home long term. Fact that most of the second batch of 387s are for GWR, then it seems reasonable that all of GWR units will be dual voltage.

Oh and for the record Tony Miles has said the restriction of ordering more 387s due to new regs no longer exists as the 387s meet the spec so 387s can continue to be ordered going forward. And rumours of a new order incoming....

 

[adc82140]

Any plans to clear them to Waterloo for diversionary work? Or even just to Wokingham for times of service disruption.


Edit: I think I may have already asked this before, but can't find the post. Apologies if I have.

 

[D365]

Oh and for the record Tony Miles has said the restriction of ordering more 387s due to new regs no longer exists as the 387s meet the spec so 387s can continue to be ordered going forward. And rumours of a new order incoming....

It's truly the Zonda of the railways Any beans you can spill are always appreciated...

 

[AM9]

I'm not talking about changes to orders or any of that complexity, I'm talking about simply unbolting the shoes after the testing has been completed and storing them. They do unbolt, there's no need for units operating exclusively on AC to retain them, but it seems they'll keep them. There's no modifications necessary to do this, they don't deviate from any standard specification or anything like that.

The Class 350/1 fleet retain their shoe-gear mounting brackets but don't actually carry their shoe-gear around in service all day, every day. It was re-fitted when Southern needed the units to operate the East Croyton to Milton Keynes run, and it was removed when they returned to exclusive WCML duties.

My point was to leomartin125 that there would be a cost penalty asking the supplier to provide units to a different functional spec.. It's not just a cost saving by asking the manufacturer to leave something off.

 

[absolutelymilk]

And rumours of a new order incoming....

Possibly for the East Anglia franchise?

 

[Class377/5]

It's truly the Zonda of the railways Any beans you can spill are always appreciated...

Possibly for the East Anglia franchise?

The rumours of a new order isn't linked to one particular franchise although possibility of one of the franchises puzzled me.

I thought East Anglia. With their 379s not being too different will help too. This could tie in nicely to the talk of extending the franchise another 9 months as issue with Brexit have derailed the new franchise.

Having a 379/Electrostar sim already means if East Anglia went down the 387 route, it would be a cheaper way of getting new stock with training package and resources already existing as well as experience. This is a significant fact in their favour.

If they do, can we have the 379 interior too folks as its the best interior on an Electrostar in my eyes.

 

[Harbon 1]

Oh and for the record Tony Miles has said the restriction of ordering more 387s due to new regs no longer exists as the 387s meet the spec so 387s can continue to be ordered going forward. And rumours of a new order incoming....

I heard the term "four years" batted around at work a month ago. But I have no idea of the actual timescale.

 

[Class377/5]

I heard the term "four years" batted around at work a month ago. But I have no idea of the actual timescale.

Makes you wonder how Bombardier feels about its Aventra line that supposed to be the full replacement for the Electrostar line.

 

[43096]

Makes you wonder how Bombardier feels about its Aventra line that supposed to be the full replacement for the Electrostar line.

It that's the case then perhaps c2c will order an extra 11 sets to add on to the initial 6 they are about to take delivery of, to give the total 17 set franchise commitment. It would make sense in terms of lower crew training costs and all the kerfuffle that would go with cutting over to a completely different type.

 

[D365]

It that's the case then perhaps c2c will order an extra 11 sets to add on to the initial 6 they are about to take delivery of, to give the total 17 set franchise commitment. It would make sense in terms of lower crew training costs and all the kerfuffle that would go with cutting over to a completely different type.

Is it still the case that c2c will have eight additional units delivered after the initial commitment is complete?

 

[Class377/5]

It that's the case then perhaps c2c will order an extra 11 sets to add on to the initial 6 they are about to take delivery of, to give the total 17 set franchise commitment. It would make sense in terms of lower crew training costs and all the kerfuffle that would go with cutting over to a completely different type.

That would make sense.

Is it still the case that c2c will have eight additional units delivered after the initial commitment is complete?

c2c have no such opition. They are renting 6 with the future order of 19 units to be announced in a few months. 43096 idea does have merit.

 

[D365]

c2c have no such opition. They are renting 6 with the future order of 19 units to be announced in a few months. 43096 idea does have merit.

Ah ok, just another case of false/outdated information on wikipedia then. Yeah I would agree with that.

 

[Harbon 1]

Makes you wonder how Bombardier feels about its Aventra line that supposed to be the full replacement for the Electrostar line.

I assume with it being modular, the design can be altered to make it more of an express design for longer distances for places like East Anglia that will be looking for new trains in the future.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah ok, just another case of false/outdated information on wikipedia then. Yeah I would agree with that.

I think the wiki author has double counted. The franchise agreement has the 17 units delivered as 3 batches, i.e. 9 in 2019, and then 4 each in 2022 and 2024.

That's been entered in the article wrongly as 17, 4, and 4...

 

[Class377/5]

I assume with it being modular, the design can be altered to make it more of an express design for longer distances for places like East Anglia that will be looking for new trains in the future.

Indeed. Earlier concept images shown interiors much more suited to longer trips.

 

[AM9]

I assume with it being modular, the design can be altered to make it more of an express design for longer distances for places like East Anglia that will be looking for new trains in the future.

Surely it is just a generic replacement for the Electrostar family. The body can be provided with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 twin sliding doors in a 23m 'ish shell as for Class 345. No doubt they can also supply that length with 1/3, 2/3 doors or even end single doors if given an RFQ (the illusive class 344?). 20m bodies would also be easy if there was demand *.

* Is that what the class 710s are?

 

[Class377/5]

Surely it is just a generic replacement for the Electrostar family. The body can be provided with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 twin sliding doors in a 23m 'ish shell as for Class 345. No doubt they can also supply that length with 1/3, 2/3 doors or even end single doors if given an RFQ (the illusive class 344?). 20m bodies would also be easy if there was demand *.

* Is that what the class 710s are?

The class 710 are 20m Aventra bodyshells.

 

[leomartin125]

Some photos and a video from today's visit to Paddington to check out this new GWR 387:

Photo 1: http://flic.kr/p/JHGG7W

Photo 2: http://flic.kr/p/KuMNJm

Photo 3: http://flic.kr/p/KxgT3H

Photo 4: https://flic.kr/p/KuMN9d

Video: http://youtu.be/hYHqvQEi21I

Leo

 

[Domh245]

I'd never noticed that little aerofoil shaped protrusion underneath the egress handle at the cab end. A quick bit of research reveals that it has been around since the 379s, but I can't find out what on earth it is for?

 

[Class455]

I caught a glimpse of a couple (maybe 4 or 5) 442's stored at Three Bridges depot whilst leaving the BML en route to Portsmouth Harbour. Which 442's are these and are these ones which have been stood down?
Also, are all of the GatEx 387's now in service or are the last few still at Bletchley?

 

[Class377/5]

I caught a glimpse of a couple (maybe 4 or 5) 442's stored at Three Bridges depot whilst leaving the BML en route to Portsmouth Harbour. Which 442's are these and are these ones which have been stood down?
Also, are all of the GatEx 387's now in service or are the last few still at Bletchley?

As previously stated, all 27 387/2 now in service.

201-203/206/222/223 are with Thamelink for a few more weeks with the rest being used by GatEx services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd never noticed that little aerofoil shaped protrusion underneath the egress handle at the cab end. A quick bit of research reveals that it has been around since the 379s, but I can't find out what on earth it is for?

It's the light for the drivers steps.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I think the wiki author has double counted. The franchise agreement has the 17 units delivered as 3 batches, i.e. 9 in 2019, and then 4 each in 2022 and 2024.

That's been entered in the article wrongly as 17, 4, and 4...

I have corrected the wiki article

 

[RobShipway]

As previously stated, all 27 387/2 now in service.

201-203/206/222/223 are with Thamelink for a few more weeks with the rest being used by GatEx services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's the light for the drivers steps.

I noticed at Blackfriars that some class 387/2 where being used still with class 387/1's. I presume that this will still be the case until the full fleet of class 700's have been introduced?

 

[physics34]

I noticed at Blackfriars that some class 387/2 where being used still with class 387/1's. I presume that this will still be the case until the full fleet of class 700's have been introduced?

"class 377/5" knows more but the 319s will be the last to go i believe (on the Wimbledon loop). 387/1s will be needed by GN from the autumn and gatwick will need all their 387/2s soon, so the 387s will be gone before ALL the 700s are delivered.