Class 390

[SuperVoyager]

Why does everyone hate the 390??

There is nothing wrong with it

 

[90019]

I don't.
I quite like them

 

[SuperVoyager]

I don't.
I quite like them

Good!

 

[jonhewes]

Aside from people disliking the Pendolini because they replaced their beloved Class 86/87/90 MKIII/DVT combos, a lot of people criticise the train for it's tilt-profile orientated interior, cramped seating, and lack of seats lining up to Windows.

I've only travelled on a Pendolino once, and didn't really find it an unpleasant experience, though it was only between Birmingham New Street and International.

One thing I do remember reading is that the OHLE and power supply equipment on the WCML had to be upgraded as the Pendolini consume more electricity than the old loco hauled trains, though they do at least feed some regenerative energy back into the power supply. Could the techies on this forum confirm this for me please?

I personally see nothing wrong with the concept of a long distance EMU. With the current way the railways are run, TOCs are not encouraged or incentivised to share assets or traction, so there is no advantage to having a loco or coaches in the equation.

Obviously if things were different, a loco and coaches would probably be more desireable.....

 

[SuperVoyager]

Yes they put power back when they brake

 

[GNERman]

yeah problem is that 86, 87 and 90 with Mk 2/3 and DVT were replaced and are popular...

 

[me123]

My only problem with the Pendolino is the seat alignment with the windows; if I'm going Glasgow-London, I don't want to look at plastic for over 4 hours. However, otherwise, I do like them. They've revolutionised travel on the WCML, and may well play a part in future improvements.

London-Manchester in about 2 hours is great for both cities and the whole of England's economy. The Pendolino has allowed this and other improvements to happen and, for that reason, I do believe that it's one of the most important train purchases in the UK.

 

[MCR247]

i find that most dislike them 'cos they have poor window/seat alignment. People say they are 'plastic'. But how are they much more plastic than MK3s??

But most have nothing (barely anything) against the train, but what it replaced, like thats why lots hate 66s!

 

[westcoaster]

its all that tilting, makes me feel quesey+ as everyone says the seats do not line up with the windows?

 

[SuperVoyager]

Well dispite the window problem, i rekon they are good trains

 

[CCF23]

I like the Pendolino's probably because i don't remember what they replaced, although i can understand people's dislike for them because of the cramped seating arrangement and lack of good window seats. Another reason could be some of the stations served London Euston, Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street are all extremely unpopular with passengers.
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And i love the tilting features, i find it fun

 

[SuperVoyager]

I like the Pendolino's probably because i don't remember what they replaced, although i can understand people's dislike for them because of the cramped seating arrangement and lack of good window seats. Another reason could be some of the stations served London Euston, Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street are all extremely unpopular with passengers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And i love the tilting features, i find it fun

Yeah! I don't remember what they replaced either.

 

[Bittern]

The Pendolinos are sexy! I'm getting a model of one for my birthday!

 

[jopsuk]

Most newer electric stuff drains more power than what went before it- look at all the trouble they had down south with the Desiros. More powerful aircon, seat power sockets etc draw more power, as does (on a pendo versus the LHCS) faster acceleration.

 

[Bittern]

Didn't they replace HSTs and loco hauled trains?

 

[33056]

Well I can remember what the Pendolinos replaced, but that has nothing to do with me hating the things. They are cramped, uncomfortable and make me feel queasy, I will only go on one as a last resort.

If you want to see what a decent modern EMU should be like try the various ICEs in Germany or some of the Spanish stuff.

 

[O L Leigh]

Most newer electric stuff drains more power than what went before it- look at all the trouble they had down south with the Desiros. More powerful aircon, seat power sockets etc draw more power, as does (on a pendo versus the LHCS) faster acceleration.

Not a fair comparison.

The problems with newer stock "down south" was to do with the 3rd rail electrification system. It went from supporting stock that simply needed juice to run traction motors, air compressors, heat and light to stock that had a much higher demand for power due to the additional electrical systems on-board and less tolerance of running off lower voltages because of the computerised train management systems.

Where Desiros and Electrostars were introduced onto the 25kV AC electrification system they ran almost faultlessly straight out of the box (save for the normal "new train" teething troubles). Certainly these units required no electrification upgrades.

To drag this back "on topic", there is little on a Pendo that wasn't on a LHCS rake. If anything, the use of modern technology should make them more energy efficient rather than less.

O L Leigh

 

[SuperVoyager]

Well I can remember what the Pendolinos replaced, but that has nothing to do with me hating the things. They are cramped, uncomfortable and make me feel queasy, I will only go on one as a last resort.

If you want to see what a decent modern EMU should be like try the various ICEs in Germany or some of the Spanish stuff.

Look i was asking people what they thinked of pendolinos... not asking people to tell me what to and not to like

 

[33056]

Look i was asking people what they thinked of pendolinos... not asking people to tell me what to and not to like

Not telling you what to like , just to point out that (IMO) there are much nicer modern long distance units around if you want to go and compare! In fact a Meridian or a 185 is better than a 390, the only thing that lets them down is those wretched underfloor engines.

 

[Bittern]

The 334s and 318s are nice EMUs.

 

[mumrar]

I, like many people, remember fondly what they replaced. But I also know what 47s replaced, and I like them too. From a business point of view they are great. Faster journeys than ever before. I travelled on the Railway Magazine special from Glasgow to London and it was surreal how quick the journey went. Not stopping was odd too. But whether liked or not their place in the modern railway business is cemented by performance and reliability.

 

[Daimler]

It's because their 'passenger experience' so to speak is the worst out of any modern train. Appalling design of window/seat alignment, flimsy feeling everything, smelly toilets, rattly at certain speeds, stupid wasted space at the end of half the coaches, and general claustrophobic feel caused by the combination of high seat backs and tapering sides.

In this fortnight's Rail Magazine, there's a story on a Passenger Focus survey of intercity train amenities. The Pendolino came last in the categories 'windows', 'seating accessories', 'comfort of seating', 'on-train environment', 'vestibule area', and (drawing with 220/221/EMT 222s) 'luggage provision'. They're badly designed!

EDIT: Ooh, I'm now a 'Ticket Seller' 8)

 

[37401]

Aside from people disliking the Pendolini because they replaced their beloved Class 86/87/90 MKIII/DVT combos, a lot of people criticise the train for it's tilt-profile orientated interior, cramped seating, and lack of seats lining up to Windows.

Thats why i hate them, But i hate 221`s more!

 

[BlythPower]

Plus points - they seem pretty reliable and the air-con's lovely in summer.

Big minus points - the incredibly small, widely spaced, poorly aligned windows. Imagine going from London to Glasgow and all you see for 4 hours is a lump of off-white plastic while people around you are going 'Oooh look at the Lake District fells over there, ooh the Pennines', etc. The toilets don't seem to be a problem too often now, but when they stink they really stink. Also the rattles and buzzes seem to be getting steadily worse.

 

[Geezertronic]

I think the Pendolino's are great. Yes people can moan about the Window/Seat alignment and to be honest that is my only bugbear with them. I have had the pleasure of travelling from Brum to Euston in Standard and First Class and I enjoyed both - pre and post WCML upgrade (at Rugby especially). The tilting takes a bit of getting used to but I hardly notice it now.

You can have a look at the Virgin Trains Wikipedia entry to get a bit of knowledge on what the Pendolino's replaced, or look out for the loco hauled service currently replacing a Pendolino between Euston and Brum in the short term.

I would hope that when the new Pendolino sets (4) and coaches are ordered (to extend existing sets to 11 coaches), they could possibly consider looking at the interior and changing the layout?

 

[devon_metro]

If they are anything like Voyagers, they have those uncomfortable seats, stink of the toilet when you get on, don't have enough leg room and have seats with nothing to look at other than a bit of plastic. Voyagers are awful trains internally so it fits that the Pendos with a very similar design internally are the same.

However, structurally they are very safe and faster than conventional mk3/2.

 

[delt1c]

I have 2 constracting opinions of Peno's. travelled 1st class London to Manchester and also london Birmingham on several occasions and have to say the 1st class is among the best I have used and that includes Eurostars and the GNER Mallards.
Moving on to standard class trips for the same journeys they qualified as among the worst journeys, where I wads lucky enough to get a seat it was back to travel, no window and exceedingly cramped due to the side profile of the coach, among the worst journeys I have made.

 

[ukrob]

If they are anything like Voyagers, they have those uncomfortable seats, stink of the toilet when you get on, don't have enough leg room and have seats with nothing to look at other than a bit of plastic. Voyagers are awful trains internally so it fits that the Pendos with a very similar design internally are the same.

However, structurally they are very safe and faster than conventional mk3/2.

So basically you have no idea at all and are speculating? That is what gives things a hard time to start with!

 

[devon_metro]

I'm led to believe pendolinos are even worse than Voyagers... so...

 

[ukrob]

I'm led to believe pendolinos are even worse than Voyagers... so...

Point proven. 'Led to believe'.