Class 458/5 conversion a mistake?

[cjmillsnun]

The 442's were primarily used on the Weymouth line before they were withdrawn.

Piggies regularly did Pompey runs prior to the slammers going.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Why on earth would GX need these again? They've just got a brand new fleet of Class 387's! Likewise with Southern. They've got the 377/5's returning from Thameslink, so have enough stock. The only thing I could see moving to Southern are the 455's (not the whole fleet though) for an increase in capacity on the Metro lines.
They have the potential (apart from 458531-536) to have a pantograph added so they could move to the Welsh Valleys I suppose when thats electrified?

Again, as on another thread. GatEx had not that long had 460s before they were withdrawn and replaced with 442s. History has a funny way of repeating itself, and another operator may take the 387/2s to go with their 387s allowing them to take an older class off-lease.

That said, there will be a fleet of Leccystars that are specifically designed for airport runs becoming available soon. If they can be converted to 3rd rail for a reasonable outlay I suspect that GTR would have those in a heartbeat over Junipers.

 

[spark001uk]

The 458s are not unsuitable for the duties they do now, nor their future planned use on the Reading line. Quite the opposite, in fact: they are a very nice train for those duties.

This is true. They have good acceleration, and the doors shut reasonably quickly too unlike the 450s.
In fact, I got on one this morning on the Staines Weybridge branch and noticed they'd hastily re-fitted antimacassers and first class signs. My question of it was answered when I then saw a reading go up as a pair of 458s.
I'm guessing they've pinched a few 450s for mainline strengthening during the Waterloo works? (and to strengthen some of the Readings with 2 extra coaches)

 

[Bletchleyite]

That said, there will be a fleet of Leccystars that are specifically designed for airport runs becoming available soon. If they can be converted to 3rd rail for a reasonable outlay I suspect that GTR would have those in a heartbeat over Junipers.

They are only "specifically designed for airport runs" in terms of the seating layout and luggage racks. Interiors are modular so it'd be dead easy to fit those to any other type of modern unit and rejig the seats a bit, cost per unit probably a couple of grand. Far easier than converting a non third rail unit to third rail.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

This is true. They have good acceleration, and the doors shut reasonably quickly too unlike the 450s.
In fact, I got on one this morning on the Staines Weybridge branch and noticed they'd hastily re-fitted antimacassers and first class signs. My question of it was answered when I then saw a reading go up as a pair of 458s.
I'm guessing they've pinched a few 450s for mainline strengthening during the Waterloo works? (and to strengthen some of the Readings with 2 extra coaches)

Yes I noticed the return of 1st class to these units on Saturday. They have not installed doors which I think the original units had before conversion?

It is ironic that during the works to increase 10 car operation they seem to have reverted to 8 car operation on the Windsor and Eaton services by replacing the 458s with 455s

 

[spark001uk]

Yes I noticed the return of 1st class to these units on Saturday. They have not installed doors which I think the original units had before conversion?

It is ironic that during the works to increase 10 car operation they seem to have reverted to 8 car operation on the Windsor and Eaton services by replacing the 458s with 455s

Yes it does seem a bit rushed, the reading light panels haven't been reinstalled either by the looks.
I was about to say about the 455s too, I passed at least 2 Windsors on my way to town which were both 8/455. However after Clapham I noticed quite a few 10/455, so they must be taking advantage of the ability already, which is good cos at least they can keep it that way when they return to p1-4 at Waterloo when finished.

 

[HSTEd]

How about third rail electrification of the Aylesbury line, complete with conversion of the Met to earthed-fourth rail?

Then you could put them on the Chiltern.

I'll get my coat.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes it does seem a bit rushed, the reading light panels haven't been reinstalled either by the looks.
I was about to say about the 455s too, I passed at least 2 Windsors on my way to town which were both 8/455. However after Clapham I noticed quite a few 10/455, so they must be taking advantage of the ability already, which is good cos at least they can keep it that way when they return to p1-4 at Waterloo when finished.

AIUI from discussions elsewhere, P1 - P4 aren't completed during this blockade. I suspect all the track alterations and signalling will be done, but there are reports that the platform structures will not be ready - and were not planned to be ready.

 

[MartinB1]

Just a thought regarding the new South Western franchise.

If First MTR had proposed their wholescale metro fleet replacement plan a few years back, do you think that this would have meant that the Class 458/5 conversion would not have needed to go ahead? To me it's looking like a big mistake was made, because where are those units going to end up now? Definitely not back at Gatwick Express.

On a similar note, maybe the now-unnecessary Class 707 order could have been avoided as well.

I think the 455 AC conversion project can also be added to this, along with the 456 units (which someone else has mentioned). I think that stagecoach have had a muddled approach to rolling stock, trying to do everything on the cheap. 455's are horrendous for passengers especially during the summer, and it really is barmy that Stagecoach would have kept them if they had won the franchise.

Hopefully train presentation and onboard toilet maintenance will also improve under the new franchise.



Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[TheNewNo2]

The only thing I dislike about 458/5s (apart from the look) is the provision of a quiet carriage. I like quiet carriages, but when the train stops every two minutes and the door chimes are the loudest noise in the universe, it's a bit silly.

Could the 458s not be cascaded to help with Southeastern services? They run a fair few 10 coach trains which are currently 465+465+466.

 

[EMD]

How about third rail electrification of the Aylesbury line, complete with conversion of the Met to earthed-fourth rail?

Then you could put them on the Chiltern.

I'll get my coat.

Chiltern could buy all available for sale 66's from DBS and use them in push-pull configuration.

One can only dream.

 

[Clansman]

The only thing I dislike about 458/5s (apart from the look) is the provision of a quiet carriage. I like quiet carriages, but when the train stops every two minutes and the door chimes are the loudest noise in the universe, it's a bit silly.

Could the 458s not be cascaded to help with Southeastern services? They run a fair few 10 coach trains which are currently 465+465+466.

Having ridden a few when I was in Staines last week, they don't look like they have aged well internally - rather tatty compared to their sisters up here in Scotland.

The Juniper line isn't the greatest design in the world in terms of maximising capacity, so whether or not they'd work on SouthEastern, I'm not too sure.
I'd expect SouthEastern to be the next London TOC to get a major exodus of its rolling stock in the next few years, given how the rest are panning out.

 

[CosherB]

Chiltern could buy all available for sale 66's from DBS and use them in push-pull configuration.

One can only dream.

Er, source of ETS? 75 mph top speed?

 

[swt_passenger]

Could the 458s not be cascaded to help with Southeastern services? They run a fair few 10 coach trains which are currently 465+465+466.

Perhaps dozens of posters have suggested that, across a wide range of 458 related threads. It's about as likely as anything else that comes up...

 

[EMD]

Er, source of ETS? 75 mph top speed?

It was just a tongue in cheek response.

 

[ScotGG]

The only thing I dislike about 458/5s (apart from the look) is the provision of a quiet carriage. I like quiet carriages, but when the train stops every two minutes and the door chimes are the loudest noise in the universe, it's a bit silly.

Could the 458s not be cascaded to help with Southeastern services? They run a fair few 10 coach trains which are currently 465+465+466.

It would be a short term thing to send them to Southeastern. Network Rail spent millions since 2010 extending platforms and power supplies for 12-car running. It doesn't need more 5 car stock but 4 car units like 377s