• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

N

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
7,250
Location
Surrey
spark001uk said:
700 ato is in use in the core.
Click to expand...
not regularly from my journeys but perhaps should have clarified that whilst it was specified, installed and commissioned there unlikely ever to run a service frequency that will need it. So as i see it ABDO will fall into the same hole but happy to be proved wrong.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

B

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
31,992
Nicholas Lewis said:
not regularly from my journeys but perhaps should have clarified that whilst it was specified, installed and commissioned there unlikely ever to run a service frequency that will need it. So as i see it ABDO will fall into the same hole but happy to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...

Slightly OT, but around a third of my journeys through the core are now on ATO, and it is magnificent. Has the potential to knock a minute or two off the core transit time.
 
Minstral25

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,873
Location
Surrey
Bald Rick said:
Slightly OT, but around a third of my journeys through the core are now on ATO, and it is magnificent. Has the potential to knock a minute or two off the core transit time.
Click to expand...

How can you tell if you are not in the cab - I use the Core regularly and would be good to know what is ATO and what is driven.
 
B

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
31,992
Minstral25 said:
How can you tell if you are not in the cab - I use the Core regularly and would be good to know what is ATO and what is driven.
Click to expand...

three ways:

1) driving style. When entering a station, under ATO the train will usually be at linespeed (30mph) and then throw the anchors out about 2/3rds the way along the platform, braking at a consistent (and firm rate) to stop bang on the stopping point. Naturally, drivers will brake earlier, and modify their braking particularly in the last 30 metres or so. Sometimes, if the train under ATO is waiting a previous train to vacate the platform, when it gets movement authority you will find it accelerating hard into and along the platform to the braking point. Drivers don’t do that, they will typically coast at lower speed for a while. When leaving the platform, ATO basically lights up the afterburners and away you go.

2) doors. Under manual driving, the driver has to confirm the train is fully platformed before pressing the door release. This takes a couple of seconds. Under ATO, the train knows it is fully platformed and releases them straight away. If the doors open within a second of the train stopping, rather than 2-3 seconds, it’s ATO.

3) the easiest way. Sit in the first bay of seats behind the cab. If you can hear AWS pings and warnings, its not ATO! (You will hear the double chime of ATO updates coming through instead if the ATO is in).
 
Last edited:
N

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
7,250
Location
Surrey
Bald Rick said:
Slightly OT, but around a third of my journeys through the core are now on ATO, and it is magnificent. Has the potential to knock a minute or two off the core transit time.
Click to expand...
I did wonder yesterday whether we were on ATO as the train was quite rapid through the reverse curves at Farringdon before coming to a stop on a sixpence. You can tell on A320 when they've switched on autopilot if your up front as you hear two bleeps when they switch it on an off so other than faster running how can you tell?
 
Bessie

Bessie

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
264
How many 701 units have people seen stored at Feltham? I passed there the other day and saw the 3 x 10 car units. One of these was 701025; I couldn't make out the other unit numbers.
 
G

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,668
Bessie said:
How many 701 units have people seen stored at Feltham? I passed there the other day and saw the 3 x 10 car units. One of these was 701025; I couldn't make out the other unit numbers.
Click to expand...
I've only ever seen two, so the third one must be recent. At least one seems to go out on test daily.
 
D

Dr_Intoxicated

Member
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
504
Saw 2 in Feltham depot this morning and a third stopping on the up platform at Feltham station about 11:46 as I got off a Reading train. Sorry do not have any numbers to offer
 
Minstral25

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,873
Location
Surrey
Bald Rick said:
three ways:

1) driving style. When entering a station, under ATO the train will usually be at linespeed (30mph) and then throw the anchors out about 2/3rds the way along the platform, braking at a consistent (and firm rate) to stop bang on the stopping point. Naturally, drivers will brake earlier, and modify their braking particularly in the last 30 metres or so. Sometimes, if the train under ATO is waiting a previous train to vacate the platform, when it gets movement authority you will find it accelerating hard into and along the platform to the braking point. Drivers don’t do that, they will typically coast at lower speed for a while. When leaving the platform, ATO basically lights up the afterburners and away you go.

2) doors. Under manual driving, the driver has to confirm the train is fully platformed before pressing the door release. This takes a couple of seconds. Under ATO, the train knows it is fully platformed and releases them straight away. If the doors open within a second of the train stopping, rather than 2-3 seconds, it’s ATO.

3) the easiest way. Sit in the first bay of seats behind the cab. If you can hear AWS pings and warnings, its not ATO! (You will hear the double chime of ATO updates coming through instead if the ATO is in).
Click to expand...

Thank you - that makes sense
 
Fincra5

Fincra5

Established Member
Joined
6 Jun 2009
Messages
2,584
Bald Rick said:
three ways:

1) driving style. When entering a station, under ATO the train will usually be at linespeed (30mph) and then throw the anchors out about 2/3rds the way along the platform, braking at a consistent (and firm rate) to stop bang on the stopping point. Naturally, drivers will brake earlier, and modify their braking particularly in the last 30 metres or so. Sometimes, if the train under ATO is waiting a previous train to vacate the platform, when it gets movement authority you will find it accelerating hard into and along the platform to the braking point. Drivers don’t do that, they will typically coast at lower speed for a while. When leaving the platform, ATO basically lights up the afterburners and away you go.

2) doors. Under manual driving, the driver has to confirm the train is fully platformed before pressing the door release. This takes a couple of seconds. Under ATO, the train knows it is fully platformed and releases them straight away. If the doors open within a second of the train stopping, rather than 2-3 seconds, it’s ATO.

3) the easiest way. Sit in the first bay of seats behind the cab. If you can hear AWS pings and warnings, its not ATO! (You will hear the double chime of ATO updates coming through instead if the ATO is in).
Click to expand...
Well.... Its about 50% down the Platform a 700 (Both RLU and FLU) will apply 80% Brake. It will ease off on the approach to the appropriate stop mark. It does accelerate about 100%.

You also don't get AWS Pings on ETCS Level 2 when driven manually :) The "Double Chime" is all the same tone for Movement Authority too.

ATO is a good performance tool but it's not perfect!

Goldfish62 said:
What's degraded working?
Click to expand...
Camera's fail etc.
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,347
Any more news on whether RMT are happy with the driving cabs now (with latest mods)?
 
Fincra5

Fincra5

Established Member
Joined
6 Jun 2009
Messages
2,584
Goldfish62 said:
Thanks. Well, that makes perfect sense given there'll be a guard on every train.
Click to expand...
Seems similar to GA Guards, who retain PTS/ Competencies if there's issues with the Stadler Units. (Which use DOO Camera's to Dispatch).
 
Wokingham

Wokingham

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2019
Messages
71
Location
Wokingham
t
Nogoohwell said:
Software development is a mine-field. If you took the exact same software from one Aventra and put it on a new build which had 1 or two different components and I guarantee it will not work. Its not as simple as changing a line of code as each piece of code is dependent on another, thats why so many companies dont change computer systems of components. Cash machines still use 20 year old Windows NT and components that are the size of old TV's because they know it works. Trains however, we want new things, new PIS, wifi, aircon, powersaving lighting, CCTV, USB and plug sockets, power management, anti slip, remote monitoring and lower costs. Thats a lot of things to be integrated into one system. Thats a lot more than is going on in your PC and Windows is about 3GB of code and supported by a team of thousands. I could go on for hours, but give the Derby guys a break, software development and testing is hard which is why it pays well!
If I'm right, the 701's are the sole DC only variant of the family, which if so, could easily be the source of the problem.
Click to expand...
thats a interesting thought maybe that is the problem, atleast that silly rumour of binning them of has lapsed
 
G

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,668
Towers said:
The RMT's problem with the 701s is a rather wider issue - the long-running dispute over Guards operating doors!
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm going mad but that been settled hasn't it? Or has the RMT now unagreed what was voted on and accepted by members?

Are you confusing it with Southern where they're still officially in dispute?
 
T

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
2,527
Location
UK
Goldfish62 said:
Perhaps I'm going mad but that been settled hasn't it? Or has the RMT now unagreed what was voted on and accepted by members?

Are you confusing it with Southern where they're still officially in dispute?
Click to expand...
No, was just referencing it; sorry! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top