• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

DennisM

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2016
Messages
87
Thameslink users adapted quickly enough

No they wouldn't as ASDO (automatic selective door operation) and CSDE (correct side door enabling) will sort that at all stations. ABDO is additional functionality to this for inner stations.

The 458s were retrofitted with ASDO, 707s came with ASDO. As a comparison the only stock at GTR without ASDO are the 313s 365 and 455s, everything newer has it there, SWT/SWR are a bit behind the curve.

Might I suggest researching ASDO before scaremongering?
The 458’s are the only ASDO stock at SWR that behave as such and this is due to it having a very basic system where each coach has to individually read the beacon before the doors will open. All Siemens’s stock at SWR will read the beacon at the start of the platform and release the number of doors the beacon has instructed, wherever the train happens stop.

No it wouldn't, ASDO will prevent that.
I must say I'm somewhat surprised you know about ABDO but not ASDO.
See above.

They also spend a significant amount of their time operating in underground tunnels, which is the same reason it's not a problem on the Thameslink core.


The ASDO technology that SWR uses on 444/450/707 will release the same number of doors no matter where the train stops.
This.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

DorkingMain

Member
Joined
25 Aug 2020
Messages
692
Location
London, UK
Also worth noting that the archaic system on the 458s is, to put it bluntly, rubbish.

Back in my time we had a diagram that was 458s over the Shepperton branch. You would be very very lucky to do one rounder without at least one instance of a coach not releasing because it didn't pick the beacon up on the way into the platform.
 

AverageTD

Member
Joined
13 Aug 2017
Messages
266
Location
West London
The irony of this is that the system is not connected to the signalling I believe, so if a driver is on a restriction they are not to accept ABDO as the train will not recognise a Red signal to slow down or stop for so will SPAD. Of course during the peaks more trains will mean more restrictive signalling so may even be a case ABDO is used more outside of the peaks.
That seems really stupid. So it drives according to the track taking into account track speeds etc but can't work with a red signal?
 

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,347
The 458’s are the only ASDO stock at SWR that behave as such and this is due to it having a very basic system where each coach has to individually read the beacon before the doors will open. All Siemens’s stock at SWR will read the beacon at the start of the platform and release the number of doors the beacon has instructed, wherever the train happens stop.
OK, accepted. But the fact remains that if the train does stop in the wrong place, it is the train crew's responsibility to correct this before the doors are released.
 

DennisM

Member
Joined
3 Apr 2016
Messages
87
That seems really stupid. So it drives according to the track taking into account track speeds etc but can't work with a red signal?
I don’t think it even takes into account speeds, although I’d be pleasantly surprised if anyone has information to the contrary. My understanding is the driver accelerates the train as normal and then activates ABDO as the train approaches the next station.
Would be interesting to know whether at a station like Wimbledon where the speed through the platform drops from 60 to 30mph, if the driver has to brake for the lower speed limit before letting ABDO take over.
 

AverageTD

Member
Joined
13 Aug 2017
Messages
266
Location
West London
I don’t think it even takes into account speeds, although I’d be pleasantly surprised if anyone has information to the contrary. My understanding is the driver accelerates the train as normal and then activates ABDO as the train approaches the next station.
Would be interesting to know whether at a station like Wimbledon where the speed through the platform drops from 60 to 30mph, if the driver has to brake for the lower speed limit before letting ABDO take over.
A lot further from ATO than I originally thought. One of the main problems I thought would be the activation of the system, you wouldn't want to turn it on too late. A sudden drop like you mentioned certainly complicates things.
 
Last edited:

pompeyfan

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2012
Messages
4,349
My understanding was the train would hit the ramp at a set speed (say 30mph) and if ABDO has not been disengaged the train will control itself to a stop and release doors when confirmed it has stopped.

if you’re approaching Clapham on the down Windsor and the signal is red (like it often is) so you crawl in at 15 it should still calculate the correct braking curve and door release
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,675
Perhaps I should have been a little clearer, I agree it could help where boarding a huge number of pax at once in very frequent traffic is critical, but where services (and passenger numbers) are less intense, not so much so.
As far as I am aware the sole reason for proposing ABDO is to help where boarding/alighting a huge number of pax at once in very frequent traffic is critical, eg Surbiton - Waterloo!

Taking in pre-covid terms the railway between these locations is full in the AM peak. Without introducing ATO and moving block signalling the only ways you can increase capacity are:
- standardising on high performance rolling stock with the same braking and acceleration curve.
- increasing passenger capacity in the same train length
- regularising the braking curve and door release
- opening all doors at the same time.
- countdown tImer linked to live train running to indicate to the driver when doors need to be closed.

All except the last point are achieved through the 701 standardised fleet and ABDO.
 

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,347
Are we any further forward regarding the cab issue resolution with the union? (not to mention what they might think of DCO/ABDO)
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,675
330 customers deserve better, rather than being slapped in the face with a higher chance of not getting access to a single toilet ad hoc.
As already explained all except the 458s have no toilet and with the 458s it's very unusual that both toilets in a unit are working (often neither are) and you can't walk between the units.

I agree that two toilets per 10 cars is low, but it's better than what's there now.
 

Bigfoot

Established Member
Joined
2 Dec 2013
Messages
1,265
The toilet tanks are not the same either as that is quite often the reason a toilet is out of use. Rather than being actually faulty there is just no where for the stuff to go and the toilet locks out.
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,675
The toilet tanks are not the same either as that is quite often the reason a toilet is out of use. Rather than being actually faulty there is just no where for the stuff to go and the toilet locks out.
That's right. I also understand that the door of the universal toilet is of a poor design (isn't everything on the 458s?) and frequently fails, locking the toilet out of use.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
16,718
As already explained all except the 458s have no toilet and with the 458s it's very unusual that both toilets in a unit are working (often neither are) and you can't walk between the units.

I agree that two toilets per 10 cars is low, but it's better than what's there now.
You’re assuming that the toilets in the 701s are any more reliable than what there is now. After an initial burst of enthusiasm from SWR, they appear to have given up on them. Why is that mindset going to change, especially when there will be many more to maintain?
 

Bigfoot

Established Member
Joined
2 Dec 2013
Messages
1,265
You’re assuming that the toilets in the 701s are any more reliable than what there is now. After an initial burst of enthusiasm from SWR, they appear to have given up on them. Why is that mindset going to change, especially when there will be many more to maintain?
Why don't we wait and see what the 701s bring eh?

As for toilets on 458s the doors are dodgy yes (had to rescue a few trapped inside in my time), but I haven't had any toilet problems when I've driven them for months now. Tempting fate probably, and very much off topic.
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,675
You’re assuming that the toilets in the 701s are any more reliable than what there is now. After an initial burst of enthusiasm from SWR, they appear to have given up on them. Why is that mindset going to change, especially when there will be many more to maintain?
In my experience the toilets on the 458s are still more reliable now than in SWT days, especially latterly when the y were as good as permanently locked out of use.

In fact the internal presentation of the 458s is better than it ever was under SWT.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
16,718
In my experience the toilets on the 458s are still more reliable now than in SWT days, especially latterly when the y were as good as permanently locked out of use.

In fact the internal presentation of the 458s is better than it ever was under SWT.
If you ignore the water in the windows!

Other than the toilets, which did improve when SWR took over (but have now gone backwards again), I’d say they were in better condition under Stagecoach.
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,675
If you ignore the water in the windows!

Other than the toilets, which did improve when SWR took over (but have now gone backwards again), I’d say they were in better condition under Stagecoach.
Internal cleaning every 30 days rather than every nine months for a start. You can see the colour of the floors now.

For some reason the interiors of the 458s were nearly always absolutely disgusting under SWT, even though the exteriors were largely immaculate. It was partly down to the original flooring attracting too much dirt, but latterly due to the inadequate "cleaning" regime introduced in conjunction with a number of other cuts as a result of the more onerous financial terms of the final SWT franchise.
 

444045

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2020
Messages
915
Location
Dorset
Does anyone know if a 701 is heading towards Eastleigh today, there is a pathway and 66703/709 allocated to train please ?


EDIT : Train departed Derby 263 mins late but has make up at a number of locations, not for 263 mins though,
still no idea of which 701 being moved today, if any kind soul could say that would be great.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:

Dibbo4025

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2018
Messages
607
Does anyone know if a 701 is heading towards Eastleigh today, there is a pathway and 66703/709 allocated to train please ?


EDIT : Train departed Derby 263 mins late but has make up at a number of locations, not for 263 mins though,
still no idea of which 701 being moved today, if any kind soul could say that would be great.

Thank you.
Reported elsewhere as 701014
 

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,347
Looks like they've started doing ffr on 011 now, just passed me on today's 5Q40.
Assume 006 has completed it now?
 

WWTownEnth

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2014
Messages
228
Any update on when the new Feltham depot will be ready? I am assuming that deliveries will not pick up again to twice a month until it is operational......
 

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,347
Thanks. Anyone got any idea if the deliveries will now accelerate?
Well today's run from Litchurch was cancelled. Noted the headcode was to be 6Z24 on it though, rather than the usual 6X24. My initial guess at the reason for that was possibly 701002 coming back, as its brakes are already operational? I could be wrong.

Edit: Appears it's been reinstated, but it's not on the system. Just passed over silkstream Jn. Reported elsewhere as just the 66s with barriers coming down.
 
Last edited:

WWTownEnth

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2014
Messages
228
Well today's run from Litchurch was cancelled. Noted the headcode was to be 6Z24 on it though, rather than the usual 6X24. My initial guess at the reason for that was possibly 701002 coming back, as its brakes are already operational? I could be wrong.

Edit: Appears it's been reinstated, but it's not on the system. Just passed over silkstream Jn. Reported elsewhere as just the 66s with barriers coming down.
So they are on their way to take another back up north?
 

Top