Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[pompeyfan]

Because the RMT spent three years (or more?) going on strike on the SWR over DOO before accepting it, but now SWR isn't going to use DOO on the 701s. Union members voted to accept the following:

Is it a fact that SWR will not use any form of DOO? Or is that speculation in this thread?

 

[Towers]

So why didn't SWR plan it that way in first place and then add functionality at a future point rather than wasting years of software development leaving nearly a Billion pounds worth of rolling stock sitting idle and no doubt degrading as its been off the juice for so long. This has been one of the industries worst rolling stock introductions although not the only one and its about time the transport select committee teed up an enquiry.

Because, bluntly, there were very few options left on the table. Strengthening SWR suburban trains to 10 car had been done by acquiring the 456 fleet, bringing spare capacity at Waterloo had done by bringing the Eurostar platforms back into use, there really weren’t many places left to turn. Speeding up dwell times as much automation as possible in order to squeeze in extra services was about all that was left on the list of options! Covid meant of course that ultimately it wasn’t necessary.

 

[Dan G]

Is it a fact that SWR will not use any form of DOO? Or is that speculation in this thread?

True. Apart from the RMT letter suggesting something has... changed (no indication what) it's only rumours on here.

 

[Western Sunset]

701021 on 5Q50 this morning.

Here you go...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Because, bluntly, there were very few options left on the table. Strengthening SWR suburban trains to 10 car had been done by acquiring the 456 fleet, bringing spare capacity at Waterloo had done by bringing the Eurostar platforms back into use, there really weren’t many places left to turn. Speeding up dwell times as much automation as possible in order to squeeze in extra services was about all that was left on the list of options! Covid meant of course that ultimately it wasn’t necessary.

I get all that my point is the best strategy was to get trains in use then add the clever bits as a follow on upgrade and when proven move to the tighter timetable. Anyhow all irrelevant now and actually sensible to bin off all the clever stuff now but doesn't take away what an utter fiasco this has been from train builder through to operator which is why a Transport Select Committee enquiry would expose the background and expose the issues so they aren't repeated in the future.

 

[LUYMun]

Because, bluntly, there were very few options left on the table. Strengthening SWR suburban trains to 10 car had been done by acquiring the 456 fleet, bringing spare capacity at Waterloo had done by bringing the Eurostar platforms back into use, there really weren’t many places left to turn. Speeding up dwell times as much automation as possible in order to squeeze in extra services was about all that was left on the list of options! Covid meant of course that ultimately it wasn’t necessary.

Whilst this is true SWR's franchise plans always looked ambitious to put it mildly. The network already struggled to run as many trains as timetabled, peak time services were consistently a few minutes late. But SWR planned to both increase and speed up services. Covid probably saved them somewhat, the trains were already full but trying to run more never really looked achievable.

Surely, as demand is expected to return to pre-pandemic levels by the mid-to-late-2020s (as mentioned in NR's Waterloo Approaches report), these short-term reversions must've bitten SWR in the backside, given that train capacity would still persist a problem when a sense of normality returns? More importantly, if it is vital to reduce the overcrowding on the Waterloo lines, wouldn't this be a stronger case for Crossrail 2 more than ever?

 

[St. Paddy]

701506/511 were hauled from Worksop to Wembley this morning by 47727

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely, as demand is expected to return to pre-pandemic levels by the mid-to-late-2020s (as mentioned in NR's Waterloo Approaches report),

I think that prediction can be looked back on now as hopelessly optimistic.

 

[Carlisle]

I think that prediction can be looked back on now as hopelessly optimistic.

Yes, nobody I know who’s doing hybrid working is in any hurry to return to the office full time.

 

[bb21]

Apologies but what does a door guard do? Do they just stand by the doors and press the button to open them? Seems a little silly...

701 GOPs are not equipped with door open buttons, so door release has to be done by driver. Dispatch only by guard.

The timetable pre-2020 was simply unworkable without the additional technology as the network did not have sufficient capacity to accommodate the number of services at the time with their booked lengths. Additional services had been specified and implemented without anyone really understanding what can be accommodated in reality. This had been proven by repeated simulation exercises. It (together with reduced infrastructure reliability) explains a significant part of why punctuality continued to decline for many years and ended up in a prolonged period of what can only be described as "abysmal".

Unfortunately from what I understand this recent development was caused by a massive clusterf*** by the company. The less said the better. If heads are being knocked together to bring the new trains into service, then I am glad at least some people are finally seeing sense.

 

[fgwrich]

There seems to be some movement tonight, coming up from Southampton I travelled past 2 x 10 car 701s almost following each other towards Eastleigh. Both in testing with full interior lights on.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Imagine having the fun job to ring up Mick Lynch and say "Sorry Mick bit awkward but you know that agreement we signed two years ago after all that suffering, can we pretend it didn't happen !"

What a circus this all is!

 

[Goldfish62]

701 GOPs are not equipped with door open buttons, so door release has to be done by driver. Dispatch only by guard.

Exactly the same method of operation as per Electrostars, IEPs, Pendolinos, etc.

 

[Sun Chariot]

There seems to be some movement tonight, coming up from Southampton I travelled past 2 x 10 car 701s almost following each other towards Eastleigh. Both in testing with full interior lights on.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on RTT information

 

[Towers]

Exactly the same method of operation as per Electrostars, IEPs, Pendolinos, etc.

80x (IETs) at least are fitted with door open buttons at the guards’ panels, which although the doors are intially released by the driver does mean that they can be swiftly reopened by the guard if needed during the dispatch process. This is a very sensible bit of design that seems to be overlooked all too often; the person pressing the door close button really ought to have the facility to quickly reopen them again if something develops.

 

[Goldfish62]

80x (IETs) at least are fitted with door open buttons at the guards’ panels, which although the doors are intially released by the driver does mean that they can be swiftly reopened by the guard if needed during the dispatch process. This is a very sensible bit of design that seems to be overlooked all too often; the person pressing the door close button really ought to have the facility to quickly reopen them again if something develops.

Are right. Well, the Southern Electrostars at least definitely do not have door open buttons on the guards panel, not that the guards panel is used anymore except for local door operation by the OBS.

Anyway, risking going OT here..

 

[Versa274]

Can’t believe this forum is 199 pages in and not 1 701 is in service yet

 

[Milo T.K]

Probably 400 by the end of it

Can’t believe this forum is 199 pages in and not 1 701 is in service yet

 

[TRXsouth]

And while the 701 saga continues, a week of very high temperatures for passengers to endure on 455s without air conditioning…..

 

[Goldfish62]

And while the 701 saga continues, a week of very high temperatures for passengers to endure on 455s without air conditioning…..

Hopefully by next summer we can say different...

 

[Hophead]

Hopefully by next summer we can say different...

Is that a weather forecast?

 

[Goldfish62]

Is that a weather forecast?

If it is then hopefully it's more accurate than BBC Weather.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Today's Eastleigh to Marchwood ran far earlier than booked and I arrived too late for photos. So here's 029 being shunted about the transfer/reception area. The other units were not being moved about.

I wonder at what point these can be treated as a "barn find"?

 

[wickham]

Regarding post 5947: Realtime Trains shows Monday's Worksop to Wembley movement as cancelled and the loco returning to Leicester. So presumably 701506/511 are STILL at Worksop.

 

[Peter Wilde]

Hopefully by next summer we can say different...

Not likely to happen on all lines, surely? Those slated for early introduction of 701s may be OK (or sometimes OK?) by next summer. But those of us further down the queue may be sweltering … again. The 455s have been good trains and will be sorry to see them go, but not in hot weather. Toilets on the new stock are long awaited too - if they prove to be working when needed.

 

[St. Paddy]

Regarding post 5947: Realtime Trains shows Monday's Worksop to Wembley movement as cancelled and the loco returning to Leicester. So presumably 701506/511 are STILL at Worksop.

You’re correct, my apologies for missing the update

 

[TRXsouth]

Hopefully by next summer we can say different...

If the delays continue a full year to next September, it will be autumn!

 

[Snow1964]

Another charge has been registered by Rock Rail South West
Unit 701 054

List of 701s with charges to Deutche Bank Luxembourg is now

004, 006, 011, 012, 013, 014, 015, 016, 017, 018, 019, 022, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030, 031, 032, 033, 034, 035, 037, 038, 040, 041, 042, 043, 044, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 050, 051, 052, 054, 508, 509, 510, 512,

(41 units 10car, 4 units 5car)
430 vehicles of 750 (which is 57.33%)

Missing units are :
001-003, 005, 007-010, 020-021, 036, 039, 053, 055-060,
501-507, 511, 513-530

 

[spark001uk]

Another charge has been registered by Rock Rail South West
Unit 701 054

Which happens to be the unit that was dragged to Bicester mod for storage this morning !!

 

[GeoffS]

Another charge has been registered by Rock Rail South West
Unit 701 054

List of 701s with charges to Deutche Bank Luxembourg is now

004, 006, 011, 012, 013, 014, 015, 016, 017, 018, 019, 022, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030, 031, 032, 033, 034, 035, 037, 038, 040, 041, 042, 043, 044, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 050, 051, 052, 054, 508, 509, 510, 512,

(41 units 10car, 4 units 5car)
430 vehicles of 750 (which is 57.33%)

Missing units are :
001-003, 005, 007-010, 020-021, 036, 039, 053, 055-060,
501-508, 510-511, 513-530

According to post 5,893 unit 053 was registered too: was this incorrect? May I point out also that 508 and 510 appear in BOTH the registered and missing lists above.