Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[wickham]

Visible at Eastleigh at 1530 today (19.03.24:
Depot Airport Sidings: 701005 701006 701057 701509:
Rear of Depot: 701003 701510 and another 7015x8 (obscured by bushes but must be 701508):

 

[OneTrackMinded]

And god help them, it’s always been a poor riding bogie since the days of the Voyager. But, when you combine all the issues with the Aventra and the fact that the 3rd largest fleet order from 2017 still isn’t entering traffic anytime soon, Clearly Alstom isn’t happy with its inherited legacy platform.

As I’ve said before, where Hitachi, CAF and Bombardier managed to get a smooth riding track friendly bogie wrong, Siemens managed somehow to nail it on the Desiro City.

What's your ranking of all of the lightweight bogies?

 

[gabrielhj07]

Heard for the first time today at Vauxhall a service announced as 'South Western Railway Arterio', just like LNER do with their Azumas. I hope it won't stick around, dounds very tedious.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Heard for the first time today at Vauxhall a service announced as 'South Western Railway Arterio', just like LNER do with their Azumas. I hope it won't stick around, dounds very tedious.

Yeah both the woman and male versions have it. I think it makes them a bit more unique.. not sure why you'd want it removed?

 

[DMckduck]

Yeah both the woman and male versions have it. I think it makes them a bit more unique.. not sure why you'd want it removed?

Is it necessary on a platform though? Next you will have onboard announcements saying welcome on board this Azuma or Arterio train.

Maybe there already is onboard LNER?...

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah both the woman and male versions have it. I think it makes them a bit more unique.. not sure why you'd want it removed?

Maybe because ‘Arterio’ is about the most stupid name for a train that anyone’s ever come up with?

In its favour it goes well with clogged or blocked though, if they ever get busy…

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

A couple of points to this position:

1. The leasing payments are not covered entirely by government subsidies. Pre-Covid some three quarters of the passenger TOC’s total costs were covered by fare income. In the meantime this proportion has fallen to about half which means that essentially government subsidies now cover about half the leasing costs.

The Class 701 trains will have an operating life of thirty years or more. Any predictions of future income are therefore fraught with uncertainty but it is a reasonable assumption that the proportion of the total TOC costs made up by fares income will increase as passengers return and under the changed circumstances the railways get better at improving the yield. In turn this implies that the government’s share of the leasing costs will continue to fall.

At no point will the government pay, as you suggest, all the leasing costs.

Fair enough that is actual situation but the govt is ultimately liable if fare revenue doesn't improve and are currently they are paying for virtually all the 701's whilst they aren't in commission unless the leasing contract contains suitable remedies for units that are unusable.

2. Under the financial constraints on the governments of the recent past - regardless of their political inclination - it is extremely unlikely that the Treasury would fork out £865 million to buy trains when there are other expenditures to be considered which are much more important to voters generally than a section of the railways.

In addition as you say, a government may well be able to borrow money at a lower rate of interest than a commercial company but it certainly does not have to pass on this lower rate of interest to the organisations to which it, in turn, lends the money. One of the perennial gripes of BR was that the rate of return charged by the Treasury for loans was higher than it could have obtained on the commercial market. But being a nationalised industry it could only borrow through the Treasury.

Thats a choice of the government of the day of course but as covid response showed loading up national credit card can be done when there is a political will not that i expect any change in policy should Labour gain power.

 

[fgwrich]

What's your ranking of all of the lightweight bogies?

I’ve not really had the pleasure / displeasure (delete as appropriate) of the CAF version yet other than under a Mk5 Sleeper, but so far it has to be in order of best to worst;

Siemens

Flexx Eco
CAF
Hitachi

The problem I find with the bottom three is that they can be quite twitchy depending on the track condition. Wheel flats on the Flexx Eco seem to travel into the body (the noise certainly does as, does any bearing issue), the CAF version has horrendously squealing brakes which wake you up when your trying to sleep, and the Hitachi version seems to give the worst oscillating experience I’ve ever had on the UK network - it’s the 80X vehicle with those underneath that seem to be the worst affected.

Somehow Siemens, the masters of design and engineering that they are, seem to have managed to make a smooth riding, very rarely noisy, track friendly bogie. Something that came about thanks to Bombardier refusing to sell the Flexx Eco bogie to them in the wake of the Thameslink project fallout.

 

[Fincra5]

And god help them, it’s always been a poor riding bogie since the days of the Voyager. But, when you combine all the issues with the Aventra and the fact that the 3rd largest fleet order from 2017 still isn’t entering traffic anytime soon, Clearly Alstom isn’t happy with its inherited legacy platform.

As I’ve said before, where Hitachi, CAF and Bombardier managed to get a smooth riding track friendly bogie wrong, Siemens managed somehow to nail it on the Desiro City.

Nailed the ride on a Desiro City?

 

[Mikey C]

The only CAF type I've been on was a Northern 331, and the ride was horrendous! Worse than any IET type I've been on (and they're not brilliant).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Heard for the first time today at Vauxhall a service announced as 'South Western Railway Arterio', just like LNER do with their Azumas. I hope it won't stick around, dounds very tedious.

It was announced that way on Day One, when I joined the first 701 there.

 

[Goldfish62]

Apologies for the poor photo, but I've just spotted this at Feltham. It says "Arterio 701 training course".

I imagine if you open the door there's just a brick wall behind it.

 

[45076]

Apologies for the poor photo, but I've just spotted this at Feltham. It says "Arterio 701 training course".

I imagine if you open the door there's just a brick wall behind it.

the door is locked and the key has been lost

 

[Goldfish62]

the door is locked and the key has been lost

Or it takes you through to an alternative universe where the 701s entered service.

 

[MotCO]

Apologies for the poor photo, but I've just spotted this at Feltham. It says "Arterio 701 training course".

I imagine if you open the door there's just a brick wall behind it.

I think the room behind is too small, and you can't sit comfortably, and I don't think it has been decided who opens and who shuts the door

 

[3141]

Yeah both the woman and male versions have it. I think it makes them a bit more unique.. not sure why you'd want it removed?

It's a silly and unnecessary name. I doubt whether the majority of passengers know or care that someone has decided that the train should have a name or what it is. Announcing that the next train was an SWR Juniper or Desiro would be equally pointless. It's faintly possible that the use of the name might serve to inform passengers that new trains were entering service, but only for a short while. Once most of them are in service (whenever that might be) and they are the only rolling stock on many routes, why on earth would anyone think the name should continue to be used?

 

[Mikey C]

Southeastern do use "City Beam" on their platform displays. I can't remember whether the announcements (on or off train) also include this silly name.

 

[KT550]

Southeastern do use "City Beam" on their platform displays. I can't remember whether the announcements (on or off train) also include this silly name.

I doubt passengers care about the names.
It's just a train, or if late or cancelled a ******* train.

 

[Peter Sarf]

the door is locked and the key has been lost

No, of course it isn't locked. The door will fall open as soon as you sneeze near it .

Of course the sign of a training course is positive news.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Or.. it could have been there for years and this was the one used for depot drivers all those months ago

 

[Goldfish62]

Or.. it could have been there for years and this was the one used for depot drivers all those months ago

Indeed. I only noticed it yesterday because I was at the front of the train whereas I usually travel towards the rear.

 

[Warrior2852]

Heard for the first time today at Vauxhall a service announced as 'South Western Railway Arterio', just like LNER do with their Azumas. I hope it won't stick around, dounds very tedious.

I hope not too, this increasing trend of named train announcements when it's a large proportion of your fleet is weird, surely putting in names should be reserved for more unique circumstances? Particularly with LNER announcing their Azumas, every diagram minus a couple York/Leeds will be an Azuma!

 

[LambicHedgehog]

Looks like there may be two more Guildford return trips planned for tomorrow. Same headcodes as last week, 5Q30-5Q33.

Realtime Trains | 5Q30 1507 Clapham Yard Sidings to Guildford | 22/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q30 1507 departure from Clapham Yard Sidings to Guildford on 22/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[norbitonflyer]

I hope not too, this increasing trend of named train announcements when it's a large proportion of your fleet is weird, surely putting in names should be reserved for more unique circumstances? Particularly with LNER announcing their Azumas, every diagram minus a couple York/Leeds will be an Azuma!

All adds to the increasing unnecessary verbiage making it harder to pick out the necessary information, especially if English is not your native language.
"The next train on..." [which other train are they likely to be talking about?]
"Platform 8" [necessary only if the announcement is audible on more than one platform, or in the ticket hall
"is the 12:17" [necessary only if there are Advance tickets valid only on some services from the station: otherwise it is irrelevent when it is - or was - due
"South Western Railway" [Most SWR stations have been served by no other TOC for seven years, and never by more than one company at once: necessary only at stations served by more than one company, and then only if there are tickets available that are limited to one operator]
"Arterio" [meaningless word, and the type of rolling stock is only of interest to enthusiasts, who know what it is anyway]
"service to Shepperton, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Raynes Park etc etc" - [even that would be clearer if it said "all stations via Kingston except Earlsfield" - the "except Earlsfield" being the bit that might otherwise catch people out]

Likewise the habit of guards on trains who would "like to" welcome us aboard this SWR train to Woking / Guildford/ wherever- well, I'm not stopping you.

Reel off the litany of stations as we leave Waterloo ,

ending with "due to arrive at Woking (or Guildford, or Basingstoke) at 12:34"
1. The "due to " anouncenment is made whether or not the train left on time, and may therefore be a lost cause before we start.
2. This obsession with the end of the line. If "due at" times are necessary, why only for that one station?
3. If this is a stopper, there are faster trains to Woking/ Guildford/ Basingstoke, so only two people on the train should be going all the way, and one of them obviously already knows because s/he is making the announcement, and we should hope the other one does too because s/he is driving the thing.

And, worst of all, station nameboard clutter - "[insert name of TOC] Welcome to Anytown, home of [insert name of obscure company no-one has heard of] [insert meaningless slogan which gives no clue as to what the company does]"

 

[CarrotPie]

"The next train on..." [which other train are they likely to be talking about?]
"Platform 8" [necessary only if the announcement is audible on more than one platform, or in the ticket hall

Ever heard of island platforms?

"is the 12:17" [necessary only if there are Advance tickets valid only on some services from the station: otherwise it is irrelevent when it is - or was - due

Not strictly - my friend is on the 1217 and the 1217 has the right stopping pattern for me too.

1. The "due to " anouncenment is made whether or not the train left on time, and may therefore be a lost cause before we start.

Not if you know you're 15 minutes down.

2. This obsession with the end of the line. If "due at" times are necessary, why only for that one station?

It's often (Waterloo) an important interchange or destination in its own right.

3. If this is a stopper, there are faster trains to Woking/ Guildford/ Basingstoke, so only two people on the train should be going all the way, and one of them obviously already knows because s/he is making the announcement, and we should hope the other one does too because s/he is driving the thing.

Enthusiasts? People wanting to try something different? People meeting others along the way? Not everyone travels in strictly the most efficient way.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Ever heard of island platforms?

As I said - more than one platform

It's often (Waterloo) an important interchange or destination in its own right.

And often (Chessington South, Shepperton) it's a sleepy station with very low usage stats compared with other calling points en route: you know, the ones they skip in order to get to the end of the line on time.

 

[DMckduck]

I'm sure firstgroup will put to bed any suspected confidence issues they have with these units on bank holiday Friday and Monday by still running these services?

Maybe then we might get one close to a full compliment of passengers?

Or will they have a pre planned excuse for an inevitable last second cancellation I do wonder...

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I'm sure firstgroup will put to bed any suspected confidence issues they have with these units on bank holiday Friday and Monday by still running these services?

Maybe then we might get one close to a full compliment of passengers?

Or will they have a pre planned excuse for an inevitable last second cancellation I do wonder...

Engineering works in the Staines area on those days so they won't be running

 

[DMckduck]

Engineering works in the Staines area on those days so they won't be running

Damn I was really hoping for the inevitable excuse, I'm sure they are cleared for hounslow so could run on the loop?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

News regarding ABDO on the 701s https://twitter.com/champs707007/status/1770776646997479659?s=46&t=kphVyOEY-vS6OJ42tlUgpg