Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Peter Mugridge]

You were very lucky then, as there seems to be only one out today, working a Windsor diagram

Looks to be 701 031?

 

[Mainsideman]

Something to do with guard avaliablity apparently. But of course this might change when nationalisation happens in May. Again, I believe SWR will be given a little more treatment as they're the first of the operators under Labour to be nationalised and therefore you'd expect them to want it to look like it's working so people are supportive of further franchise transfers

Swr would not have a problem retaining guards if it wasnt for god awful fact you need to wait about 18 months before you get the full salary as a new guard. Hopefully labour will come in and fix this then maybe these extra trains can run!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

god awful fact you need to wait about 18 months before you get the full salary as a new guard

These are the type of issues the unions should really be focusing on....

 

[43096]

0633 Waterloo - Windsor is 4-450 vice 10-701 this morning. Not going well.

 

[SWT_USER]

0633 Waterloo - Windsor is 4-450 vice 10-701 this morning. Not going well.

Yes, I saw that heading towards Windsor from Ashford this morning. Looks like it is being swapped later though as only that round trip appeared on journey check as a short form. I see the 07:53 Windsor to Waterloo was already 7 minutes down by Whitton and skipped Twickenham and Richmond.

Any update on training resuming yet? SWR should be working on this night and day to get it sorted..

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, I saw that heading towards Windsor from Ashford this morning. Looks like it is being swapped later though as only that round trip appeared on journey check as a short form. I see the 07:53 Windsor to Waterloo was already 7 minutes down by Whitton and skipped Twickenham and Richmond.

Any update on training resuming yet? SWR should be working on this night and day to get it sorted..

The Windsor lines have been rubbish so far this week. My usual train that started from Reading yesterday morning was late for unknown reasons and managed to get later and later during the journey.

 

[nctd2306]

There was also an 8 455 vice 701 on Windsors at one point earlier this week, meaning repeated skipping of Datchet

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Any update on training resuming yet? SWR should be working on this night and day to get it sorted..

Funny how just a few weeks ago people here were asking if the rollout would speed up and others would respond “well it can’t get any slower”

It’s now not only managed to get slower but come to a complete halt entirely. At some point the pure level and consistency of incompetency becomes an impressive feat…

 

[Goldfish62]

Funny how just a few weeks ago people here were asking if the rollout would speed up and others would respond “well it can’t get any slower”

It’s now not only managed to get slower but come to a complete halt entirely. At some point the pure level and consistency of incompetency becomes an impressive feat…

SWR never fail to disappoint in this respect. I suppose the natural next step is to withdraw what few diagrams are managing to operate. Then the circle will be complete ready for handover over to DfT Operator to try to sort out the trail of destruction left by FirstGroup and MTR.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

withdraw what few diagrams are managing to operate

Nothing would surprise me at this point..!

 

[SWT_USER]

Funny how just a few weeks ago people here were asking if the rollout would speed up and others would respond “well it can’t get any slower”

It’s now not only managed to get slower but come to a complete halt entirely. At some point the pure level and consistency of incompetency becomes an impressive feat…

You are right there, guilty as charged! Somehow I managed to over estimate how competent SWR are, which is pretty amazing really.

Agree with @Goldfish62 - rollout is likely to go backwards now with no further staff being trained, sickness annual leave and staff turnover will see available staff decline and more cancellations and short forms.

 

[norbitonflyer]

0633 Waterloo - Windsor is 4-450 vice 10-701 this morning. Not going well.

The Sheppoerton diagram that starts 2H08 (0543 teddington- Waterloo) is also 2x455 this morning (the blue/grey one).

 

[willontrains]

Hi all, first post over here so please let me know if you have any feedback/questions.

SWR released a bulletin for Operational Staff about 701 Operations.

Guards on the 701s now can operate from the rear cab in /0s and /5s. However they will have to wear a Hivis Jacket and this can only be used if the train is full and standing. This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station. This raises concerns on trains per hour during peak times, as I've seen rammed 701s this new procedure could lead to more runfast calls at short stations.

Also, discussions with Guards suggest that they may be planning to have a guard office onboard 701s. Absolutely unbelievable to me.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes, I saw that heading towards Windsor from Ashford this morning. Looks like it is being swapped later though as only that round trip appeared on journey check as a short form.

Swapped out after one round trip for 701039 (which had worked the morning Shepperton via Richmond diagram)

Progress appears to be running all six diagrams, albeit two of them not with 701s, rather than cancelling them

Guards on the 701s now can operate from the rear cab in /0s and /5s. This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station.

So the train will not stop when it will inconvenience the most passengers.

And it should not be necessary on a 2x 701/5 anyway, as the guard can use one of the middle cabs. (and if it's a solo 701/5 the train won't be too long)

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Also, discussions with Guards suggest that they may be planning to have a guard office onboard 701s.

What….?? Talk about moving backwards… I thought that was an idea of the past

 

[Goldfish62]

Hi all, first post over here so please let me know if you have any feedback/questions.

SWR released a bulletin for Operational Staff about 701 Operations.

Guards on the 701s now can operate from the rear cab in /0s and /5s. However they will have to wear a Hivis Jacket and this can only be used if the train is full and standing. This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station. This raises concerns on trains per hour during peak times, as I've seen rammed 701s this new procedure could lead to more runfast calls at short stations.

Also, discussions with Guards suggest that they may be planning to have a guard office onboard 701s. Absolutely unbelievable to me.

Welcome to the thread and thanks for this very interesting first post!

My initial reaction is, "oh dear, what an absolute mess".

 

[43066]

Also, discussions with Guards suggest that they may be planning to have a guard office onboard 701s. Absolutely unbelievable to me.

This sounds unlikely when they have access to intermediate/rear cabs?

Guards on the 701s now can operate from the rear cab in /0s and /5s. However they will have to wear a Hivis Jacket and this can only be used if the train is full and standing. This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station. This raises concerns on trains per hour during peak times, as I've seen rammed 701s this new procedure could lead to more runfast calls at short stations.

In what circumstances does that instruction apply? I wonder whether anyone could quote the bulletin.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

This sounds unlikely when they have access to intermediate/rear cabs?

Probably related to this part of the post:

This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station.

 

[willontrains]

And it should not be necessary on a 2x 701/5 anyway, as the guard can use one of the middle cabs. (and if it's a solo 701/5 the train won't be too long)701/5s are

701/5s are destined for single or split work. Similar to some of the 458/4 plans which went down the drain. Originally it was planned for 458/4s to bring back four trains per hour to Epsom, and split and one to Dorking and one to Guildford. It seems likely, according to my sources, that /5s will be used for this as well as other double work

This sounds unlikely when they have access to intermediate/rear cabs?

Hi, as I've explained this isn't possible at certain stations due to visibility and short platform issues.

Welcome to the thread and thanks for this very interesting first post!

My initial reaction is, "oh dear, what an absolute mess".

Cheers, I've spoken to so many Metro Guards who are commercialising or even moving to driving due to these changes...

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Cheers, I've spoken to so many Metro Guards who are commercialising or even moving to driving due to these changes...

Sounds like the perfect storm is brewing. I foresee an upcoming crisis

 

[dingdinger]

Hi all, first post over here so please let me know if you have any feedback/questions.

SWR released a bulletin for Operational Staff about 701 Operations.

Guards on the 701s now can operate from the rear cab in /0s and /5s. However they will have to wear a Hivis Jacket and this can only be used if the train is full and standing. This also means that if their is a short platform (eg Motspur Park & Thames Ditton) and it is full and standing the Guard will not be able to safely alight to the platform from the cab which means the train will not stop at the station. This raises concerns on trains per hour during peak times, as I've seen rammed 701s this new procedure could lead to more runfast calls at short stations.

Also, discussions with Guards suggest that they may be planning to have a guard office onboard 701s. Absolutely unbelievable to me.

Interesting reading.

However, Thames Ditton and Motspur Park do not have short platforms.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not that familiar with the mainline suburban side, but I thought all platforms (expect Kingston bay) could take 10 coach trains as that was a requirement to allow 455-455-456 formations.

The Windsor lines are a different matter.

 

[SWT_USER]

I wonder if it's worth going back to proper DCO now and to the previously agreed training course. Trying to agree a shorter course has clearly made things worse.

 

[willontrains]

Sounds like the perfect storm is brewing. I foresee an upcoming crisis

What does worry me is late night services for guards. It could be extremely dangerous with drunk/disorderly passengers.

Interesting reading.

However, Thames Ditton and Motspur Park do not have short platforms.

I agree, they don't have short platforms for Passengers but as the announcements say they do as the rear cab doors overhang the platform.

 

[43066]

Probably related to this part of the post:

But if short formed they won’t be too short to be accommodated in any platform? It sounds more like something where the intermediate cabs can’t be used for dispatch to a fault of some sort. Would be interesting to see the full text (I understand why people are unwilling to quote directly).

Hi, as I've explained this isn't possible at certain stations due to visibility and short platform issues.

I suppose if the fixed 10 car units need to be dispatched from midpoint then they might need a location to dispatch from - is that what’s meant by “guards office”? Perhaps @Monty or someone else could confirm.

 

[dingdinger]

I'm not that familiar with the mainline suburban side, but I thought all platforms (expect Kingston bay) could take 10 coach trains as that was a requirement to allow 455-455-456 formations.

The Windsor lines are a different matter.

Yes the suburban side can -certainly the suburban platforms have been able to accommodate 10 coach trains for a number of years as you said to accommodate the 455 ×2, 456 x1 formations.

 

[SWT_USER]

Sounds like the perfect storm is brewing. I foresee an upcoming crisis

Would it make a difference if everything came to a head and there was a crisis? Or given that SWR have one foot out the door they just don't care anymore and nothing will change

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes the suburban side can -certainly the suburban platforms have been able to accommodate 10 coach trains for a number of years as you said to accommodate the 455 ×2, 456 x1 formations.

Thanks, as I thought.

The main problem then appears to be the Hounslow loop, where there are a number of short plans with very busy trains calling in the peaks.

There are short platforms at the western ends of the Windsor and Reading lines, but unless there's major service disruption or events such as Royal Ascot or Twickenham rugby trains are not rammed at these locations. Likewise on the Chertsey line, but these services operate via the Hounslow loop..

 

[43096]

I suppose if the fixed 10 car units need to be dispatched from midpoint then they might need a location to dispatch from - is that what’s meant by “guards office”? Perhaps @Monty or someone else could confirm.

Or they should all have been built as 5-cars in the first place as that would avoid the problem? Whatever, the entire project is an utter fiasco from start to finish (assuming there is a finish…).

 

[43096]

Thanks, as I thought.

The main problem then appears to be the Hounslow loop, where there are a number of short plans with very busy trains calling in the peaks.

Is that the logical use for the 5-cars, then?