Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[MotCO]

Interesting to compare the "legacy" fleet at franchise start with what it is now. A reduction of well over 200 vehicles, which should leave plenty of stabling space for the 701s, even before considering that stabling space has increased (e.g. 10 x 10-car roads at Feltham).

	Franchise Start Vehicles	Vehicles Now	Change
158	20	20	+0
159	90	87	-3
442	90	0	-90
444	225	225	+0
450	508	508	+0
455	364	320	-44
456	48	0	-48
458/4	0	112	+112
458/5	180	35	-145
	1,525	1,307	-218

Do SWT currently have any 707s, or have they all transferred to South Eastern?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Do SWT currently have any 707s, or have they all transferred to South Eastern?

SWR was down to two 707s quite a while back so presumably gone now.
I was going to let someone else with a better memory reply but :-

Do SWT currently have any 707s, or have they all transferred to South Eastern?

Interesting to compare the "legacy" fleet at franchise start with what it is now. A reduction of well over 200 vehicles, which should leave plenty of stabling space for the 701s, even before considering that stabling space has increased (e.g. 10 x 10-car roads at Feltham).

	Franchise Start Vehicles	Vehicles Now	Change
158	20	20	+0
159	90	87	-3
442	90	0	-90
444	225	225	+0
450	508	508	+0
455	364	320	-44
456	48	0	-48
458/4	0	112	+112
458/5	180	35	-145
	1,525	1,307	-218

Those 707s were on SWR before any of the other classes shrank iirc ?.
So even more space ?.
At its peak we could assume SWR had an extra 150 coaches (30 x 5car units) making 1,675 and falling by 368 coaches !.

Add in the 10 sidings at Feltham and there should be space for 46 x 10car 701s.
But I recall (up thread) a snag is not all the sidings on SWR can take 10car units !.
Even so that is a fair chunk (50%) of the 701 fleet.

 

[Wyrleybart]

SWR was down to two 707s quite a while back so presumably gone now.
I was going to let someone else with a better memory reply but :-


Those 707s were on SWR before any of the other classes shrank iirc ?.
So even more space ?.
At its peak we could assume SWR had an extra 150 coaches (30 x 5car units) making 1,675 and falling by 368 coaches !.

Add in the 10 sidings at Feltham and there should be space for 46 x 10car 701s.
But I recall (up thread) a snag is not all the sidings on SWR can take 10car units !.
Even so that is a fair chunk (50%) of the 701 fleet.

In addition to that, have the entire fleet of 2 car 456s gone for the chop from SWR and maybe the entire SN fleet of 455s

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do SWT currently have any 707s, or have they all transferred to South Eastern?

They've all gone; the last pair ( 707 024 + 707 030 ) went several months ago.

 

[Bigfoot]

In addition to that, have the entire fleet of 2 car 456s gone for the chop from SWR and maybe the entire SN fleet of 455s

Why on earth would you include Southern rolling stock on a SWR vehicle count?!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In addition to that, have the entire fleet of 2 car 456s gone for the chop from SWR

Yes, all gone about three years ago.

 

[pompeyfan]

It’s a bit disingenuous to include the 159 and 442s in that list (although I can appreciate it’s for completeness), from memory all the ones that were in service started out of Fratton and Bournemouth so no use for the 701 project, and the missing 159 even more of a red herring.

If Fratton is usually near capacity then it might mean a Desiro cascade has occurred freeing up space in suburban locations but I don’t have the numbers to confirm that.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Brilliant thank you very much

These were posted in good faith yesterday but today things seem to have changed, at least for the remainder of this week. All of the Shepperton peaks trains (those starting with 2H90 & 2H93) have been deleted from the timetable. The Dorking (1D05/1D14) is a pair of 455 that were doing 2J92 0752 Surbiton - Waterloo with 2J92 deleted from the timetable for today and tomorrow.

 

[03_179]

These were posted in good faith yesterday but today things seem to have changed, at least for the remainder of this week. All of the Shepperton peaks trains (those starting with 2H90 & 2H93) have been deleted from the timetable. The Dorking (1D05/1D14) is a pair of 455 that were doing 2J92 0752 Surbiton - Waterloo with 2J92 deleted from the timetable for today and tomorrow.

Fair Enough.
It'll give me a base with which to work.

 

[norbitonflyer]

These were posted in good faith yesterday but today things seem to have changed, at least for the remainder of this week. All of the Shepperton peaks trains (those starting with 2H90 & 2H93) have been deleted from the timetable. The Dorking (1D05/1D14) is a pair of 455 that were doing 2J92 0752 Surbiton - Waterloo with 2J92 deleted from the timetable for today and tomorrow.

School holidays? - Whether that is because it reduces the demand for peakbusters, or the supply of drivers, i wouldn't know

 

[Siemens Staines]

School holidays? - Whether that is because it reduces the demand for peakbusters, or the supply of drivers, i wouldn't know

I have suspected in the past that whilst driver training was suspended, those driving instructors that were not training were helping out with operating the existing six diagrams. If training is about to be re-started, those driving instructors will no longer be available. They may also wish to take leave now during school holidays, and before the training resumes? That all said, if this was the case, then I would expect the changes shown for the remainder of this week, to apply next week. As yet they don't, so I could be completely wrong.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have suspected in the past that whilst driver training was suspended, those driving instructors that were not training were helping out with operating the existing six diagrams. If training is about to be re-started, those driving instructors will no longer be available. They may also wish to take leave now during school holidays, and before the training resumes? That all said, if this was the case, then I would expect the changes shown for the remainder of this week, to apply next week. As yet they don't, so I could be completely wrong.

Fair assumptions and just likely next weeks cancellations have not been "decided" yet.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Fair assumptions and just likely next weeks cancellations have not been "decided" yet.

next week will be unusual anyway because of Good Friday

 

[Nogoohwell]

Stabling a fixed length 200m train must be an issue for SWR.
Consider this, all suburban services were made up of multiples of 4. If you have a siding that held 2x8 trains, it now can only hold 1x701, leaving space for 6 more coaches.
Even the longest of yard for 2x12 450’s can only hold 2x701’s. Its not an issue of storage space, its about having the right space to accommodate the trains.

 

[43096]

Stabling a fixed length 200m train must be an issue for SWR.
Consider this, all suburban services were made up of multiples of 4. If you have a siding that held 2x8 trains, it now can only hold 1x701, leaving space for 6 more coaches.
Even the longest of yard for 2x12 450’s can only hold 2x701’s. Its not an issue of storage space, its about having the right space to accommodate the trains.

But that is what SWR get paid to manage. Given the original fleet plan and the significant reduction in fleet size since, and the increase in stabling space, they shouldn’t have a problem.

Then again, it is SWR…

 

[swtrains]

Today's testing:

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Clapham Yard - Goes to Kingston via Richmond, reverses, goes to Shepperton, heads back to Clapham Junction, reverses, does a Hounslow loop via Hounslow, before heading back to the Yard.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q38269/2025-04-09/detailed

Why are they testing here if the route has been cleared?

 

[Snow1964]

Today's testing:

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Clapham Yard - Goes to Kingston via Richmond, reverses, goes to Shepperton, heads back to Clapham Junction, reverses, does a Hounslow loop via Hounslow, before heading back to the Yard.



Why are they testing here if the route has been cleared?

Kingston bay can only take 8car or a 5car 701, although one of the through platforms is signalled for reversals towards Hampton Wick.

Might be testing unusual crossovers used for engineering or unplanned emergency reversals, to ensure stopping places are correctly marked etc

 

[wickham]

This is odd: 5Q89 1234 Long Marston to Eastleigh (Wed 09.04.25) has started from Worcester at 1325 according to RTT. Another site reports the consist as 701517 and 701519 which I had recorded as being stored at Bicester. Have they been moved from Bicester to Worcester at some stage, although I can not find a recent move on RTT ?

This is odd: 5Q89 1234 Long Marston to Eastleigh (Wed 09.04.25) has started from Worcester at 1325 according to RTT. Another site reports the consist as 701517 and 701519 which I had recorded as being stored at Bicester. Have they been moved from Bicester to Worcester at some stage, although I can not find a recent move on RTT ?

Should have checked before I posted this, but looking back I see I am in error and 701517/519 DID go to Long Marston and not Bicester. But the question still remains, why did the train start from Worcester, or indeed, is RTT incorrect.

 

[800001]

This is odd: 5Q89 1234 Long Marston to Eastleigh (Wed 09.04.25) has started from Worcester at 1325 according to RTT. Another site reports the consist as 701517 and 701519 which I had recorded as being stored at Bicester. Have they been moved from Bicester to Worcester at some stage, although I can not find a recent move on RTT ?


Should have checked before I posted this, but looking back I see I am in error and 701517/519 DID go to Long Marston and not Bicester. But the question still remains, why did the train start from Worcester, or indeed, is RTT incorrect.

Brake issues yesterday so terminated at Worcester.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Stabling a fixed length 200m train must be an issue for SWR.
Consider this, all suburban services were made up of multiples of 4. If you have a siding that held 2x8 trains, it now can only hold 1x701, leaving space for 6 more coaches.
Even the longest of yard for 2x12 450’s can only hold 2x701’s. Its not an issue of storage space, its about having the right space to accommodate the trains.

No, not all suburban services were 8car. Indeed the most suburban of them all were 10car. Outer suburban (loosley) are 450s and will remain so. A lot (maybe all) of the trains the 701s are replacing were 10 car => 4+4+2 (455+455+456 although the 2 car 456s went a long time ago) or 5+5 (707s) so not a multiple of 4cars. So for them its a like for like replacement.
Granted there are some sidings where a 10 car formation had to be split to use them and that was, iirc, one of the reasons why there are 30 5car 701s.
If there is an issue then it looks very bad if SWR did not predict that !.

Today's testing:

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Clapham Yard - Goes to Kingston via Richmond, reverses, goes to Shepperton, heads back to Clapham Junction, reverses, does a Hounslow loop via Hounslow, before heading back to the Yard.



Why are they testing here if the route has been cleared?

I suppose it could be testing of the unit, but if it is not then maybe a new piece of infrastructure.
I can dream it is DOO vs lighting tests !.

 

[Bald Rick]

No, not all suburban services were 8car. Indeed the most suburban of them all were 10car. Outer suburban (loosley) are 450s and will remain so. A lot (maybe all) of the trains the 701s are replacing were 10 car => 4+4+2 (455+455+456 although the 2 car 456s went a long time ago) or 5+5 (707s) so not a multiple of 4cars. So for them its a like for like replacement.

To be fair, the main suburban side was only a 10 car railway for a little over two years.

 

[Peter Sarf]

To be fair, the main suburban side was only a 10 car railway for a little over two years.

I knew it was short - but that short !.

 

[Bald Rick]

I knew it was short - but that short !.

Waterloo suburban platforms were only lengthened in August 2017. 10 car operation started later that year. But then stopped shortly after Covid got going in 2020.

 

[tomuk]

My feeling is the worry of damp creeping into everywhere. Structure and wiring.

Do they only operate when its not raining? Travelling at 75mph+ in the rain is going to drive more moisture into where it shouldn't be than sitting in a siding. Plus the AC motors on the new stock aren't as susceptible to damp anyway.

Presumably the insistence on DCO training has now been dropped by the company side? Good news agreement has been reached. Although, once again, frustrating that there had to be yet another delay before this was agreed.

So not an agreement just management has caved.

 

[Towers]

Do they only operate when its not raining? Travelling at 75mph+ in the rain is going to drive more moisture into where it shouldn't be than sitting in a siding. Plus the AC motors on the new stock aren't as susceptible to damp anyway.

But being in use, with systems up and running and the interior climate being managed, is a far healthier state for a machine to be in than sat idle for weeks or months, with little or no airflow and the electronics and equipment not powered up.

I suppose it could be testing of the unit, but if it is not then maybe a new piece of infrastructure.
I can dream it is DOO vs lighting tests !.

Again; how would additional, needless DOO testing & training be of any help here? 701s are very highly unlikely to operate DOO any time in the near to medium term future I would think, it simply doesn’t offer any worthwhile benefit at this stage.

Do they only operate when its not raining? Travelling at 75mph+ in the rain is going to drive more moisture into where it shouldn't be than sitting in a siding. Plus the AC motors on the new stock aren't as susceptible to damp anyway.


So not an agreement just management has caved.

Or seen sense. There were clearly ongoing issues with the DCO element, and in a post-Covid landscape it would be nothing but pragmatic to accept that it is not a good use of anyone’s time or funds, nor a worthy reason for yet more delay, in proceeding onwards with something which is no longer required. It’s simply common sense, surely?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Do they only operate when its not raining? Travelling at 75mph+ in the rain is going to drive more moisture into where it shouldn't be than sitting in a siding. Plus the AC motors on the new stock aren't as susceptible to damp anyway.
...........

If a vehicle is left to get cold then damp air builds up inside. Without keeping the insides dry (by heating) eventually the moisture level inside gets to the point that condensation forms. This then gets into wiring and other components. Eventually carpets etc grow mould.

Some of these 701s are getting left cold for an alarmingly long time.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

If a vehicle is left to get cold then damp air builds up inside. Without keeping the insides dry (by heating) eventually the moisture level inside gets to the point that condensation forms. This then gets into wiring and other components. Eventually carpets etc grow mould.

Some of these 701s are getting left cold for an alarmingly long time.

Lucky these trains don’t have carpet. I worry about the seat material though

 

[800001]

If a vehicle is left to get cold then damp air builds up inside. Without keeping the insides dry (by heating) eventually the moisture level inside gets to the point that condensation forms. This then gets into wiring and other components. Eventually carpets etc grow mould.

Some of these 701s are getting left cold for an alarmingly long time.

Hitachi had a 9 car set sat outside at Aycliffe for nearly 18 months, train is in use now with no issues.

 

[D365]

Lucky these trains don’t have carpet. I worry about the seat material though

Just don't sit on em . That's if you ever get a chance to .

It’s a good job that ’silica bags’ exist.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Hitachi had a 9 car set sat outside at Aycliffe for nearly 18 months, train is in use now with no issues.

Nearest big body of water to Aycliffe is not for some miles, compared to Marchwood. Also must add that unit 801001(now 801201, assuming you're referring to that) actually ran in service and was running till that extensive length of sit-down, most faults or issues by then would have been rectified due to actual running, where as these are units that haven't even become passenger ready or had the faults fully explored yet ontop of the long storage in salt water environment. Eastleigh units I'd assume would be first ones moving back to metro depots when required as conditions over there would be somewhat better.