Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[H&I]

Imagine if they introduced the Class 701 into passenger service on the evening of New Year's Eve!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I guess we can all stand down, then... *sigh*

 

[PG]

Imagine if they introduced the Class 701 into passenger service on the evening of New Year's Eve!

Yeah but which year...

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Well there we go. SWR will most likely have to pay that fine everyone’s been talking about to the DfT if they don’t manage to do it before new years

 

[MasterSpenny]

Yeah but which year...

I’m betting New Years Eve of 2038…

 

[SWT_USER]

Well there we go. SWR will most likely have to pay that fine everyone’s been talking about to the DfT if they don’t manage to do it before new years

What is the point? It's all effectively taxpayer money.

What a complete fiasco this is.

 

[Vanmanyo]

What an absolute embarrassment the 701 project has been. Must go down as one of the worst stock introduction ever.

 

[SWT_USER]

What an absolute embarrassment the 701 project has been. Must go down as one of the worst stock introduction ever.

Agree - if I were a TOC looking to order it certainly wouldn't be from Derby.

 

[H&I]

Well there we go. SWR will most likely have to pay that fine everyone’s been talking about to the DfT if they don’t manage to do it before new years

There is still a chance that the first train may enter passenger service on 27, 28, 29, 30 or 31 December.

 

[bramling]

Agree - if I were a TOC looking to order it certainly wouldn't be from Derby.

In context, Derby have produced decent trains in recent years - large numbers of Electrostars and Turbostars have given many years of good service, likewise the 09 and S stocks on LU have proven pretty trouble-free once settled down.

It’s not like other suppliers have been perfect. The class 700 fleet never seems to have quite performed to the levels expected, Stadler have had trouble getting the Merseyrail fleet into service, and then of course there’s the IETs.

That said, Derby will need to quickly demonstrate that they are on top of things.

 

[SWT_USER]

In context, Derby have produced decent trains in recent years - large numbers of Electrostars and Turbostars have given many years of good service, likewise the 09 and S stocks on LU have proven pretty trouble-free once settled down.

It’s not like other suppliers have been perfect. The class 700 fleet never seems to have quite performed to the levels expected, Stadler have had trouble getting the Merseyrail fleet into service, and then of course there’s the IETs.

That said, Derby will need to quickly demonstrate that they are on top of things.

You're only as good as your last order.. I wouldn't be risking it. This is monumentally bad.

Stadler - not 4 years late with so sign of entering service
Hitachi - terrible but at least they are in service.

 

[Vanmanyo]

You're only as good as your last order.. I wouldn't be risking it. This is monumentally bad.

Stadler - not 4 years late with so sign of entering service
Hitachi - terrible but at least they are in service.

I would definitely side with Stadler being the best manufacturer right now

 

[Class15]

I would definitely side with Stadler being the best manufacturer right now

Indeed - look at the GA trains they have delivered.

 

[Fazaar1889]

https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1737094664396656717

SWR confirms it won’t be running the first long-delayed Class 701 Arterio train this side of Christmas. So a Department for Transport promise to get the four-years-late £1bn trains running “this calendar year” is unlikely to be kept.

IDK who this guy is but he claims that SWR said that they're not releasing it this side of Christmas. Does anyone have a source?

Repeat of previous posts. Ignore

 

[swt_passenger]

IDK who this guy is but he claims that SWR said that they're not releasing it this side of Christmas. Does anyone have a source?

He’s a fairly well known BBC transport correspondent, for BBC South. Does he count as a trusted source, or do the BBC just make stuff up?

 

[Goldfish62]

He’s a fairly well known BBC transport correspondent, for BBC South. Does he count as a trusted source, or do the BBC just make stuff up?

He seems to have a good relationship with the industry and is clearly interested in it. I'd say he's as trusted a source as we're going to get right now.

 

[Fazaar1889]

He’s a fairly well known BBC transport correspondent, for BBC South. Does he count as a trusted source, or do the BBC just make stuff up?

Apologies, I didn't know, which is why I asked. Always good to check!

 

[Clarence Yard]

Well there we go. SWR will most likely have to pay that fine everyone’s been talking about to the DfT if they don’t manage to do it before new years

There is no fine - SWR are on a standard NRC.

 

[DelW]

There is still a chance that the first train may enter passenger service on 27, 28, 29, 30 or 31 December.

I would temper your optimism. The original deadline for the first of these units to enter service was September 2019, since when multiple further deadlines have come and gone with no effect. Why would this one be any different, especially if, as Clarence Yard states, there will be no financial sanctions on SWR?

 

[JonathanH]

Why would this one be any different, especially if, as Clarence Yard states, there will be no financial sanctions on SWR?

Why is there some hunt to make SWR a scapegoat? Where would the financial penalty go even of there were one?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Even Chris Grayling is now indulging in the sort of humour that we have on the forum and on Twitter...

Image is a screenshot of part of an exchange of e-mails between myself and him today in which he replies "2025?" to my passing him the news that this month's attempts at an introduction have now been officially abandoned.

 

[Qwerty133]

I mean does this news make any real difference to the average passenger as long as the wider rollout isn’t being pushed back due to the publicity stunt working no longer taking place?
A unit running a one off service while there is only 3 drivers trained on the units may technically met a deadline but it wouldn’t have boosted service levels or actually been beneficial to anyone other than those who had a deadline to meet.

 

[Vanmanyo]

I mean does this news make any real difference to the average passenger as long as the wider rollout isn’t being pushed back due to the publicity stunt working no longer taking place?
A unit running a one off service while there is only 3 drivers trained on the units may technically met a deadline but it wouldn’t have boosted service levels or actually been beneficial to anyone other than those who had a deadline to meet.

True - but it would've meant we've finally reached a milestone of them in service; and that would probably lead to a more swift introduction than we're facing now.

 

[DelW]

Why is there some hunt to make SWR a scapegoat? Where would the financial penalty go even of there were one?

What's the point of imposing deadlines on a company if there's no penalty whatsoever when they (repeatedly) fail to meet them? It doesn't seem that SWR management give a toss about their company's dismal record of failure (not just in 701s), and why would they when DfT is paying them a nice profit no matter how badly they perform?

 

[Dan G]

Well there we go. SWR will most likely have to pay that fine everyone’s been talking about to the DfT if they don’t manage to do it before new years

Can anyone point to a source for this claim?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There is no fine - SWR are on a standard NRC.

Indeed although i believe they may benefit under the performance fee if certain deliverable's are achieved and certainly 701's was in the broad range of improvements they signed up to.

 

[Dan G]

There is no fine - SWR are on a standard NRC.

Ah, I see

 

[Sam 76]

Indeed - look at the GA trains they have delivered.

Even the 777s are good despite the reliability issues with the doors which in time will be fixed

 

[Goldfish62]

Even Chris Grayling is now indulging in the sort of humour that we have on the forum and on Twitter...

Image is a screenshot of part of an exchange of e-mails between myself and him today in which he replies "2025?" to my passing him the news that this month's attempts at an introduction have now been officially abandoned.


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I'm in the unusual position of agreeing with Grayling on this one (who, incredibly, hasn't turned out to be the worst Transport Secretary ever, given the overwhelming competition from his two successors).

 

[norbitonflyer]

I'm in the unusual position of agreeing with Grayling on this one (who, incredibly, hasn't turned out to be the worst Transport Secretary ever, given the overwhelming competition from his two successors).

Grayling's constituents are, of course, directly affected by SWR's shortage of rolling stock, as he is MP for Epsom & Ewell - many stations in his cnstituency only have 50% of the services they had when SWR were awarded the contract (whilst he was Transport Secretary, as it happens)