Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[DMckduck97]

Not that I agree with it but is it safe to say BR will have had the South Western suburban DOO long ago.

If the DFT/SWR are so obsessed with DOO on the south western, why don't they just impose it and get on with it then? They apparently now have the the trains to facilitate it...

 

[OneTrackMinded]

If the DFT/SWR are so obsessed with DOO on the south western, why don't they just impose it and get on with it then? They apparently now have the the trains to facilitate it...

It's not that simple. The easiest would be DCO since that's what was agreed a long time ago, and that's what I expect to happen as it's what is discussed.

 

[3973EXL]

701503/504

Realtime Trains | 5Q52 1049 Derby Litchurch Lane to Worksop Down Yard | 23/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q52 1049 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Worksop Down Yard on 23/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[185143]

Any passenger 701s running today?

 

[JonathanH]

Any passenger 701s running today?

Realtime Trains | 2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 2U19 0903 departure from London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701043 on the 0903 Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside

 

[norbitonflyer]

Any passenger 701s running today?

Just the usual 2U09/16/19/26/29/36

Currently near Staines according to RTT

701043 (no surprise there)

 

[185143]

Just the usual 2U09/16/19/26/29/36

Currently near Staines according to RTT

701043 (no surprise there)

Much appreciated.

That's the only 701 I've had, so I'll give it a miss.

 

[PG]

Much appreciated.

That's the only 701 I've had, so I'll give it a miss.

Maybe they should name it Thomas as it's doing nearly all the work

 

[3973EXL]

701059

Realtime Trains | 5Q20 0855 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 26/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q20 0855 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 26/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q20 Virginia Water

 

[norbitonflyer]

Maybe they should name it Thomas as it's doing nearly all the work

Not sure 53% is "nearly all", but it is more than half. 701037 has done quite a bit too (31%).

 

[Goldfish62]

In this month's Modern Railways they've tried asking SWR why the rollout has stalled. Got absolutely nowhere. Just the usual hogwash from SWR about rolling out the fleet later this year. Despite being pressed SWR offered no explanation about the ongoing delay.

As usual all very mysterious.

 

[D365]

In this month's Modern Railways they've tried asking SWR why the rollout has stalled. Got absolutely nowhere. Just the usual hogwash from SWR about rolling out the fleet later this year. Despite being pressed SWR offered no explanation about the ongoing delay.

Does anyone have an explanation?

 

[Andy1673]

Does anyone have an explanation?

Yes. SWR doesn`t want and possibly is not able to roll out the new class normally and in due course

 

[OneTrackMinded]

In this month's Modern Railways they've tried asking SWR why the rollout has stalled. Got absolutely nowhere. Just the usual hogwash from SWR about rolling out the fleet later this year. Despite being pressed SWR offered no explanation about the ongoing delay.

As usual all very mysterious.

One of the most confusing rollouts of all time.

 

[norbitonflyer]

View attachment 157134
One of the most confusing rollouts of all time.

I don't know when that interview took place, but unless it was in the past two weeks (and I've already had my copy since Monday) they have at least managed to "extend the number of journeys" - now three round trips a day as of April 15th.

 

[Waterlemon]

People (I imagine staff) on here have said what delayed the transition from soft launch to WTT circuit. Picking out the facts from the wibble is up to you

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve been told the drivers training package has been agreed between the TOC and ASLEF (no word on RMT) but training can’t / won’t begin until July. If this is true then at least ASLEF are now reasonably satisfied.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Good news but the DfT still need to approve it

 

[43096]

I’ve been told the drivers training package has been agreed between the TOC and ASLEF (no word on RMT) but training can’t / won’t begin until July. If this is true then at least ASLEF are now reasonably satisfied.

If true, it's only about five years later than it should have been.

But there's been claim and counter-claim on this before: frankly I'll believe it when the things start appearing in traffic in increasing numbers.

 

[Goldfish62]

People (I imagine staff) on here have said what delayed the transition from soft launch to WTT circuit.

Have they? There's been nothing absolutely definitive stated on this thread, just conjecture and educated guesses.

Good news but the DfT still need to approve it

So another lengthy delay?

 

[Snow1964]

Good news but the DfT still need to approve it

If it not a naive question, can anyone explain how in 2017 DfT sanctioned a fleet of 750 vehicles, costing nearly a billion without also authorising cost of training to use them as part of the deal.

Were they bought as ornaments to stand around, or to be use.

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't know when that interview took place, but unless it was in the past two weeks (and I've already had my copy since Monday) they have at least managed to "extend the number of journeys" - now three round trips a day as of April 15th.

Moving from two to three return trips in three months is virtually zero progress.

If it not a naive question, can anyone explain how in 2017 DfT sanctioned a fleet of 750 vehicles, costing nearly a billion without also authorising cost of training to use them as part of the deal.

Were they bought as ornaments to stand around, or to be use.

Well indeed. How have other TOCs managed to train staff on new trains? Again, SWR seems to be unique in this respect.

 

[Bigfoot]

If it not a naive question, can anyone explain how in 2017 DfT sanctioned a fleet of 750 vehicles, costing nearly a billion without also authorising cost of training to use them as part of the deal.

2017 was a franchise costs fell on the shoulders of the toc. We are now in the era of management contracts and funding is very different, even fairly small things need to be authorised by the dft.

Well indeed. How have other TOCs managed to train staff on new trains? Again, SWR seems to be unique in this respect.

Training a new traction and a new method of operation are completely different things.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

This image probably provides one of the best comparisons of the 701 and 455. What a difference it is, which is to be expected when they're over 40 years apart.
I really like the look of the 701s, very sleek and modern

 

[Goldfish62]

Training a new traction and a new method of operation are completely different things.

Which was known to the DfT almost seven years ago. They've obviously been behind the push for DCO so why are they now apparently stalling on authentication of training?

 

[Bigfoot]

Which was known to the DfT almost seven years ago. They've obviously been behind the push for DCO so why are they now apparently stalling on authentication of training?

The toc had the costs previously, now the dft have them.

 

[PG]

Moving from two to three return trips in three months is virtually zero progress.

You'd half expect SWR to claim it as a 50% increase

 

[Goldfish62]

You'd half expect SWR to claim it as a 50% increase

True.

 

[Dan G]

Does anyone have an explanation?

No they don't. Over the years suggestions have been poor design that needed to be rectified, manufacturing faults, software faults, union interference and resistance, SWR reluctance to introduce the trains they ordered. Precious little evidence for any of them, although SWR continues to point to software:

“The last significant issue is the stability of the train control and management system (TCMS),” explains SWR Engineering Director Neil Drury. Back in 2017, he placed the order with the manufacturer (then called Bombardier).

Why are the 'Arterios' more than four years late?

Failure to introduce new trains ordered seven years ago by SWR has become a painful symbol of a struggling industry.

www.railmagazine.com

 

[45076]

Class 701 not entering service, class 442 being partly refurbished then scrapped, class 458 refurbished with an unknown future.
The common denominator is SWR management