Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[AverageTD]

Noticed engineering works on the WAML this weekend, there's some rather interesting Cheshunt to Liv Street fasts. I assume 317s and 379s but any chance of 745s on these diagrams?

 

[Abbo]

Noticed engineering works on the WAML this weekend, there's some rather interesting Cheshunt to Liv Street fasts. I assume 317s and 379s but any chance of 745s on these diagrams?

Sorry , yet again , for adding a irrelevant reply but I am still in the dark about how to start a new thread. Hopefully somebody will tell me !!

Anyway my posting is as follows.

A friend has told me of an experience when arriving at LST the driver apologised for not being able to open the doors as his computer had gone down. This message was repeated a couple of minutes later and he had summoned the fitter's attention. The question was / is 'Do these units have an emergency door release that could have been used and what would happen if the driver had been incapacitated ?

I look forward to an answer to both questions.

 

[Shwam3]

A friend has told me of an experience when arriving at LST the driver apologised for not being able to open the doors as his computer had gone down. This message was repeated a couple of minutes later and he had summoned the fitter's attention. The question was / is 'Do these units have an emergency door release that could have been used and what would happen if the driver had been incapacitated ?

I look forward to an answer to both questions.

There is an override option on the ASDO screens themselves (evacuate mode) as well as a more classic isolation switch on the cab back wall, these both allow all doors to be released. The former requires the screens working however and the latter I believe requires a fitter or permission from control to be operated.

In case of driver incapacitation there are internal and external egress handles for every set of doors for use in emergencies, as well as service switches at selected doors for traincrew use.

 

[Chiltern006]

What is the seat type seen on the flirts? cheers

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is the seat type seen on the flirts? cheers

It's FISA LEAN in both classes. The one other UK application of these I know of is First Class on refurbished Class 444s.

For the passenger's backside experience (!) they are almost identical to the Grammer E3000 "Desiro seat" but with a slightly bigger headrest.

 

[dk1]

Out testing 745102 today. 745008 is next.

 

[Energy]

The one other UK application of these I know of is First Class on refurbished Class 444s.

Will also be used on the new WMR 196s.

 

[Chiltern006]

cheers all, hopefully we see a similar product on emr 810s, as they are also owned by Aberlour

on a separate note- is there a reason why GA split the order of trains, and not have one manufacturer e.g. every train was a Stadler train/Bombardier train?

 

[samuelmorris]

cheers all, hopefully we see a similar product on emr 810s, as they are also owned by Aberlour

on a separate note- is there a reason why GA split the order of trains, and not have one manufacturer e.g. every train was a Stadler train/Bombardier train?

No suitable bi-mode product from Bombardier, minimum (first) order quantity from Stadler (that resulted in the 745s. GA were only explicitly after the 755s but that wasn't a large enough order to commence Stadler's UK multiple unit business)

 

[Chiltern006]

No suitable bi-mode product from Bombardier, minimum (first) order quantity from Stadler (that resulted in the 745s. GA were only explicitly after the 755s but that wasn't a large enough order to commence Stadler's UK multiple unit business)

ah makes sense, cheers

 

[jopsuk]

I do wonder if Stadler could have configured a FLIRT variant that would have met the "never mind the comfort, we're after seats" spec of the Essex/Herts/Cambs commuter unit. Given that a 745/1 has 767 seats, and a pair of 720/5 has 1080 seats (both including tip-up seats).

 

[samuelmorris]

I do wonder if Stadler could have configured a FLIRT variant that would have met the "never mind the comfort, we're after seats" spec of the Essex/Herts/Cambs commuter unit. Given that a 745/1 has 767 seats, and a pair of 720/5 has 1080 seats (both including tip-up seats).

Possibly but 3+2 seating may have caused issues with the raised floors and the single door per vehicle would potentially have caused dwell time issues with crush-laden peak time commuter services. I also don't know if 24m vehicle length was available.

 

[Rick1984]

I wonder if Greater Anglia would've gone for an InterCity version of the Aventra then if the 745 were only ordered to appease Stadler?
Would've been interesting as we've only had commuter type Aventras built so far.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

I think Bombardier didn't have a viable bi-mode offering at the time of order which meant they had to look elsewhere for those units. I think Bombardier do have an offering now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if Greater Anglia would've gone for an InterCity version of the Aventra then if the 745 were only ordered to appease Stadler?
Would've been interesting as we've only had commuter type Aventras built so far.

Given how short the route is, wouldn't a 2+2 seated version of the normal one with 2+1 First and a buffet area have done?

 

[AverageTD]

FLIRTs are well known for being configurable to various standards. A 2 door per car unit would definitely be viable but probably more expensive than going on Bombardier's relatively standard platform

 

[supervc-10]

I'm sure that someone said that the sides between the bogies are basically totally configurable, and you can have whatever configuration you need.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FLIRTs are well known for being configurable to various standards. A 2 door per car unit would definitely be viable but probably more expensive than going on Bombardier's relatively standard platform

Both TfW and Merseyrail have units on order with 2 doors per coach.

 

[supervc-10]

The Merseyrail units aren't FLIRTS, they're on a different platform called METRO. Weirdly, the 777s have two doors on the shorter inner cars, and one door for the longer driving cars.

The TfW units, going by the diagrams on Wiki, are the other way round, with two doors per side for the longer driving cars and one door for the shorter inner cars, but are otherwise laid out like a 755

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Merseyrail units aren't FLIRTS, they're on a different platform called METRO. Weirdly, the 777s have two doors on the shorter inner cars, and one door for the longer driving cars.

They are very similar, though. But if you want more FLIRTs with two doors per coach side, the Swiss ones do.

The reason, as an aside, for the layout you describe, is that all doors will fit on the current platforms (with the back end hanging off) as a double unit is slightly longer than a double 507/508.

 

[trebor79]

I doubt even the Norwich route justifies catering in the post Covid world. We will have to see what kind of passenger numbers return in the longer term.

I wouldn't be so sure. Catering on trains is a loss-leader anyway. It's something that will encourage passengers back to the train when the hysteria over COVID recedes. In fact, the people who are more likely to avail themselves of a catering offer are probably amongst the first to return. Those who tend not to use the buffet anyway will probably keep driving or working remotely for longer. So even if passenger loadings never fully recover, that doesn't necessarily mean the catering operation will be losing more money.

 

[supervc-10]

@Bletchleyite that's a fairly nifty way of getting around expensive platform lengthening!

Regarding catering- I would imagine that it's more commonly purchased by leisure travellers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding catering- I would imagine that it's more commonly purchased by leisure travellers?

On-train it has more to do with journey length, I'd think. I've used on-train catering (primarily for a cup of tea or coffee) on both business and leisure travel.

Commuters are probably the least likely to use it, I'd think, as they'll either have a regular station outlet they use or they'll bring a flask.

 

[chubs]

I wouldn't be so sure. Catering on trains is a loss-leader anyway. It's something that will encourage passengers back to the train when the hysteria over COVID recedes. In fact, the people who are more likely to avail themselves of a catering offer are probably amongst the first to return. Those who tend not to use the buffet anyway will probably keep driving or working remotely for longer. So even if passenger loadings never fully recover, that doesn't necessarily mean the catering operation will be losing more money.

As a leisure traveller,strongly disagree. I used to always use the buffet on the journey but nowadays the options in the two terminus stations and around them are immense. I can get a decent beer or bottle of wine, a tasty sandwich or something else to eat on the train, a cold soft drink, a speciality coffee etc all for a lot less than a warm beer / can of coke and a disgusting lavazza on the train.

 

[dk1]

As a leisure traveller,strongly disagree. I used to always use the buffet on the journey but nowadays the options in the two terminus stations and around them are immense. I can get a decent beer or bottle of wine, a tasty sandwich or something else to eat on the train, a cold soft drink, a speciality coffee etc all for a lot less than a warm beer / can of coke and a disgusting lavazza on the train.

Blimey I love Lavazza. It's proper strong morning coffee onboard & unlimited in any Spoons too.

 

[St. Paddy]

745008 is at Hornsey today for tyre turning. Some very bad flat spots where it has been in store for so long.

 

[43096]

745008 is at Hornsey today for tyre turning. Some very bad flat spots where it has been in store for so long.

You don't get wheelflats by sitting in a siding for a few months. Wasn't this the set that got wheelflats during delivery?

 

[Class 170101]

You don't get wheelflats by sitting in a siding for a few months. Wasn't this the set that got wheelflats during delivery?

Was this unit used for heavy braking and acceleration testing?

 

[dk1]

Was this unit used for heavy braking and acceleration testing?

I don't think it's had any testing. It's having that now. Just dragged with the parking brakes on like a few others.

 

[St. Paddy]

I don't think it's had any testing. It's having that now. Just dragged with the parking brakes on like a few others.

Thanks for the correction