Hence why the WCML tends to win out - lots of space on the Trent Valley and from Stafford to Crewe. Pinch points at Rugby, Colwich and Stafford itself can be pathed out.I would have thought the ECML favourite for testing as they are being built at Newton Aycliffe... if paths could be found.
Presumably those bits being mainly 4 track makes it less risky than a test train sitting down on the ECML too.Hence why the WCML tends to win out - lots of space on the Trent Valley and from Stafford to Crewe. Pinch points at Rugby, Colwich and Stafford itself can be pathed out.
yes, although sitting down on the Trent Valley slows will be problematic if it did it in the wrong area and blocked a station or two off. WCML also has lots of places to turn around and sit about.Presumably those bits being mainly 4 track makes it less risky than a test train sitting down on the ECML too.
What hasn’t got an engine in? 810001 at Aycliffe?Not even got engines in it yet. It’s going to be months till you even see it off depot. EMR will not see one until early next year if they are lucky.
The operational model is that pairs of fives offer greater flexibility, and allow the busiest trains to fully occupy the platform at St Pancras.I don’t understand why they didn’t order fewer sets but made them 8-car. Surely the fact there are 33% fewer sets to staff, lease and maintain would be considerable.
I don’t understand why they didn’t order fewer sets but made them 8-car. Surely the fact there are 33% fewer sets to staff, lease and maintain would be considerable.
But having more than one formation in such a small fleet is an utter pig to manage. Matching train lengths to what needs what is a diagramming nightmare. Better a standard fleet of 5-car and running pairs where needed: you can always split an incoming pair to hold one set back for a later departure that needs a pair.There are trains where loads ideally need 7 or 8 cars which don't really fit this model. Stuck with 5 or 10 so overcrowded or wasting money, and staffing (ticket checking and catering) a second unit that only really needs to be extra 2-3 carriages is inefficient
No, Avanti needs stock which will fit at Liverpool South Parkway. You can't fit 2x5 or any pendolino there but a 7 car will fit and has equivalent capacity to a 9 car 390 while not having to use SDO.The class 807 order seems to be a very late recognition that 7car sets would be useful addition between 5car and full length.
A 5 car 810 has similar capacity to a 7 car 222 so I wouldn't be that concerned.
Four of the 33 are accounted for by replacing the 7-car units, so it is a bit more like 29 vs 27.There will also be 33 x 810 vs 27 x 222 so if fully utilised the MML will see a decent increase in capacity
Not sure I follow, unless you are counting 2 x 810 for replacing a 222/7. There are currently 23 x 222/5 and 4 x 222/7.Four of the 33 are accounted for by replacing the 7-car units, so it is a bit more like 29 vs 27.
Yes, that is what I am counting, that the 7-222 diagrams would be replaced by 10-810 rather than 5-810, although that is still admittedly a capacity increase.Not sure I follow, unless you are counting 2 x 810 for replacing a 222/7.
But having more than one formation in such a small fleet is an utter pig to manage. Matching train lengths to what needs what is a diagramming nightmare. Better a standard fleet of 5-car and running pairs where needed: you can always split an incoming pair to hold one set back for a later departure that needs a pair.
Agreed. But they’ve done the shunt out to Cricklewood for many years, so it’s nothing new in terms of pathing.You don't really want to be splitting and leaving a train for later departure at St Pancras, tend to need to shunt it to some sidings due to lack of platforms to leave it in. Then of course got to bring it back later when needed. So not exactly hassle free having all 5car either.
Yes makes a lot of sense to avoid doing splitting/joining at StPancras. Maybe possible in the early morning or late evening say, when two consecutive departures/arrivals only justify 5car. But generally I guess only feasible at the country end of a route. But then why do it there. Perhaps dropping a 5car at Derby while the rest continues North to Sheffield while the 5car awaits joining to a 5car from Sheffield.You don't really want to be splitting and leaving a train for later departure at St Pancras, tend to need to shunt it to some sidings due to lack of platforms to leave it in. Then of course got to bring it back later when needed. So not exactly hassle free having all 5car either.
Given that GWR haven't been able to reliably do country end splits/joins why risk it at EMR? Also screws up the timetable in the event of disruption, occupying platforms and importing delays all over the place!Yes makes a lot of sense to avoid doing splitting/joining at StPancras. Maybe possible in the early morning or late evening say, when two consecutive departures/arrivals only justify 5car. But generally I guess only feasible at the country end of a route. But then why do it there. Perhaps dropping a 5car at Derby while the rest continues North to Sheffield while the 5car awaits joining to a 5car from Sheffield.
What am I missing. Attach and detach happens during the day at st pancras.Given that GWR haven't been able to reliably do country end splits/joins why risk it at EMR? Also screws up the timetable in the event of disruption, occupying platforms and importing delays all over the place!
Some parts of the interior are already complete in other units. This one won't be done for a while as others have said. The internal photos (which sadly I can't share) look good.
The platform lengths at St Pancras are 240m. I’m not sure how you’d get two 6 car sets with 24m vehicles (=288m) in?6-car sets might have been better. Significantly more capacity than any 222 set and still the ability to couple two together if needed but something that would only be necessary in the peak and maybe for only half the trains.
Double 6 cars wouldn't fit, the carriages are smaller than the 80x to fit as 10 cars.6-car sets might have been better. Significantly more capacity than any 222 set and still the ability to couple two together if needed but something that would only be necessary in the peak and maybe for only half the trains.
Yes. Splitting/Joining just adds risk.Given that GWR haven't been able to reliably do country end splits/joins why risk it at EMR? Also screws up the timetable in the event of disruption, occupying platforms and importing delays all over the place!
Not yet with IETs or derivetives of IETs (so 810s).What am I missing. Attach and detach happens during the day at st pancras.
There is no news that 222s are going to CrossCountry. 810s won't be in service until part way through 2024. Previous postings have indicated that it won't be until late 2025 that EMR will have all 810s in service. I wouldn't get ahead of yourself with worrying about the 222s.when are the 810s entering service and replacing the 222s and are the 222s going over to CrossCountry?
... remembering that a 5x810 has 12 more standard class seats than a 7x222 and 60 more than a 5x222, so with the exception of where a 5x810 replaces a 7x222, passengers are going to see a significant capacity increase (although of course the thinning out of the EMR intercity fleet means some of these may have been downgraded recently).Yes, that is what I am counting, that the 7-222 diagrams would be replaced by 10-810 rather than 5-810, although that is still admittedly a capacity increase.
Yes, surely the reasoning behind the 810s as 5x24m units has surely been done to death?Double 6 cars wouldn't fit, the carriages are smaller than the 80x to fit as 10 cars.