Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[InvHst]

That was me! I think that’s died down now with the 170’s but I assure you, plans were being made…

Of all people to come across on here haha good chatting with you

 

[800001]

Looks promising, 810 test path activated for tonight out of Merchant Park.

 

[Archie810]

That was me! I think that’s died down now with the 170’s but I assure you, plans were being made…

4 car turbostars down to london again?

 

[Aspen90]

4 car turbostars down to london again?

Apparently so but I think it’s gone quiet.

 

[Bald Rick]

Which will be first:-

HS2 operational
All 701s in service
First 810 into passenger use

First 810 into passenger service.

 

[800001]

That hasn’t happened.

It has started this week according to sources from within EMR

 

[43066]

It has a small safety benefit. I've seen a potentially serious safety incident involving a drunk passenger on Merseyrail which could have resulted in a death had the driver not seen it in the monitors as they departed and stopped. This won't happen every day but a quick glance in them could avert the odd incident, so if they're there... after all a lot of Northern drivers on older stock with droplights look back as they take power just as another check.

I’m not familiar with how MerseyRail works, but that just sounds like an unsatisfactory fudge. If you’ve had traditional guard dispatch there should be no need for the driver to look at monitors - it just creates ambiguity as to responsibility. Most DOO monitors switch off almost as soon as the train starts moving. The traditional approach works fine at EMR and I’d be amazed if it changed.

More recently, full Driver open/Guard close was in effect on the 180s for the short time we had them. I'm led to believe the the SDO selection will be automatic, presumably with the associated "as long as", and "unless's", so not sure if that would affect the current agreement?

Yea good point re the 180s. With the 810s it should be the same for drivers in terms of responsibility. As things stand if you authorise the release and you’ve stopped short, it’s entirely on the driver anyway.

"SDO 4.5" signs! That would be something to see.
Strange thing is, the 180s were SDO 5 at Long Eaton due to the end doors being Crew only.

The whole situation with stop boards is a farce. A forest of them at every platform: 4 car 360s can use 4/5 car boards but can’t use RLU Thameslink boards, the VT SDO signs at Chesterfield etc.

It has started this week according to sources from within EMR

As someone with very intimate knowledge of one of the three depots who will be driving them, I’d be interested to know who has claimed that, and which drivers.

 

[baz962]

It has started this week according to sources from within EMR

Well it must be Derby only , because no London or Kettering drivers are. Unless they are being quiet about it. No one doing rest days either as no agreement.

 

[Aspen90]

I’m not familiar with how MerseyRail works, but that just sounds like an unsatisfactory fudge. If you’ve had traditional guard dispatch there should be no need for the driver to look at monitors - it just creates ambiguity as to responsibility. Most DOO monitors switch off almost as soon as the train starts moving. The traditional approach works fine at EMR and I’d be amazed if it changed.



Yea good point re the 180s. With the 810s it should be the same for drivers in terms of responsibility. As things stand if you authorise the release and you’ve stopped short, it’s entirely on the driver anyway.



The whole situation with stop boards is a farce. A forest of them at every platform: 4 car 360s can use 4/5 car boards but can’t use RLU Thameslink boards, the VT SDO signs at Chesterfield etc.



As someone with very intimate knowledge of one of the three depots who will be driving them, I’d be interested to know who has claimed that, and which drivers.

Couldn’t agree more about the stop boards! There’s so many it’s confusing, also why are they black? Great at night…

 

[irish_rail]

I’m not familiar with how MerseyRail works, but that just sounds like an unsatisfactory fudge. If you’ve had traditional guard dispatch there should be no need for the driver to look at monitors - it just creates ambiguity as to responsibility. Most DOO monitors switch off almost as soon as the train starts moving. The traditional approach works fine at EMR and I’d be amazed if it changed.



Yea good point re the 180s. With the 810s it should be the same for drivers in terms of responsibility. As things stand if you authorise the release and you’ve stopped short, it’s entirely on the driver anyway.



The whole situation with stop boards is a farce. A forest of them at every platform: 4 car 360s can use 4/5 car boards but can’t use RLU Thameslink boards, the VT SDO signs at Chesterfield etc.



As someone with very intimate knowledge of one of the three depots who will be driving them, I’d be interested to know who has claimed that, and which drivers.

I used to be very anti and think like you before driving 80x, but now I find it reassuring checking the monitors as I pull away, they literally only stay illuminated for about 3 seconds, and don't really provide any distraction. It's an extra line of safety and I for one wouldn't go back to not having them when they are available. But to be clear, it is only as an additional aid , a nice to have, that I agree with them, definitely not a replacement for proper guard dispatch.

 

[rmHawk765]

Couldn’t agree more about the stop boards! There’s so many it’s confusing, also why are they black? Great at night…

Most mainland European countries just have standardised metre boards, I really don't know why we still use our inferior system.

 

[800001]

Well it must be Derby only , because no London or Kettering drivers are. Unless they are being quiet about it. No one doing rest days either as no agreement.

Driver train the trainer has started, I don’t know from which depot, or who these people are, but it has started.

 

[AJDesiro]

Couldn’t agree more about the stop boards! There’s so many it’s confusing, also why are they black? Great at night…

Veering off-topic, but the new stop boards found all around the south WCML, West Midlands and quite a bit of TfW land are now blue, rather than black. They look far better and are probably easier to see at night.

 

[londonmidland]

Veering off-topic, but the new stop boards found all around the south WCML, West Midlands and quite a bit of TfW land are now blue, rather than black.

Leicester has recently had these new blue stop boards put up on all platforms. Not sure if this is anything to do with the 810s or just a replacement of the existing black ones?

 

[Steddenm]

Tyne & Wear Metro Class 555 stop boards are blue as well. The older stock have a black diamond wirh a white S in, or markers on the actual platform edge, depending on which station it is. Always bugged me though as why Stadium of Light when it first opened had 2 Car and 4 Car markers with "NR" underneath. They've gone now though.

 

[sprinterguy]

Always bugged me though as why Stadium of Light when it first opened had 2 Car and 4 Car markers with "NR" underneath. They've gone now though.

Was that definitely Stadium of Light and not St Peter's? As St Peter's was used as a turnback for Northern Spirit services for a short while during the reconstruction of Sunderland Central for the Metro, circa 2001, so it would make some sense there.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Veering off-topic, but the new stop boards found all around the south WCML, West Midlands and quite a bit of TfW land are now blue, rather than black. They look far better and are probably easier to see at night.

This is going to be really off topic but Retford have had them years! The 373 stop signs were blue and have been left (since I last checked anyway)

 

[baz962]

Driver train the trainer has started, I don’t know from which depot, or who these people are, but it has started.

Maybe the ops trainers possibly. I'm a mentor for EMR and I haven't heard anything.

 

[43066]

Driver train the trainer has started, I don’t know from which depot, or who these people are, but it has started.

This must be ops standards as Baz says - there still isn’t even a training agreement in place for the wider driver population. Last info was that it was expected to commence in the summer with entry into service in the autumn.

Most mainland European countries just have standardised metre boards, I really don't know why we still use our inferior system.

Stock specific boards make sense as different stock types can have different length coaches - Meridian coaches are longer than 360 coaches, for example. It’s easier (and less error prone) to simply stop at a board for stock type and number of vehicles than to memorise the length of every train you drive

The issue is where there are too many of them, and where none are produced for some formation lengths (eg 4 car 360s), but instructions are issued to ignore Thameslink stop boards. It all adds up to a confusing mess.

Leicester has recently had these new blue stop boards put up on all platforms. Not sure if this is anything to do with the 810s or just a replacement of the existing black ones?

Blue is supposedly now the standard colour for stop boards, and the 5/7 stop board at Leicester P2 has been combined to reduce station stopping incidents (7s stopping on the 5 has happened several times) although quite a few people have commented that the new combined board isn’t particularly well sighted.

Loughborough on the down is another location where there have been issues. Once the 7 car Meridians are gone only 5 and 10 will be relevant, of course.

 

[Aspen90]

It’s confirmed - backwards and forwards Bedford to Kettering. Over the next two weeks. Derby driver will be first.

 

[rmHawk765]

Stock specific boards make sense as different stock types can have different length coaches - Meridian coaches are longer than 360 coaches, for example. It’s easier (and less error prone) to simply stop at a board for stock type and number of vehicles than to memorise the length of every train you drive

The issue is where there are too many of them, and where none are produced for some formation lengths (eg 4 car 360s), but instructions are issued to ignore Thameslink stop boards. It all adds up to a confusing mess.

I do agree, stock boards do make it easier for the driver and make some sense with different coach lengths but as you said it turns into a mess quickly. And to memorise the lengths, you could just have it displayed somewhere in the cab, like the 700s which have their FLU/RLU signs plastered all over the place.

 

[Kneedown]

The whole situation with stop boards is a farce. A forest of them at every platform: 4 car 360s can use 4/5 car boards but can’t use RLU Thameslink boards, the VT SDO signs at Chesterfield etc.

With the exception of Wellingborough on the Down Fast, where a 4 car 360 has to go to 8 car 360 board, and not the SDO 5 board.
Totally agree re the Thameslink boards.
It's a farce and a half mate!

 

[InTheEastMids]

It’s confirmed - backwards and forwards Bedford to Kettering. Over the next two weeks. Derby driver will be first.

Looking at RTT for Kettering next week (15/4), it looks like the plan is Old Dalby - Bedford - Kettering - London - Leicester - Bedford - Old Dalby. Fingers crossed.

 

[Aspen90]

Think it’s 810008 doing the runs.

 

[800001]

Think it’s 810008 doing the runs.

That is the plan yes. When it moves south from Merchant Park is unknown.

 

[alm37]

That is the plan yes. When it moves south from Merchant Park is unknown.

There’s a path in for Monday afternoon.

 

[800001]

There’s a path in for Monday afternoon.

Ah, hadn’t seen that. Thanks

 

[AndrewJM70]

On August 31st 1835 the Great Western Railway Act was passed and permission for the construction of the new live was formally granted On June 30th 1841 the completion of the Box Tunnel marked the end of the works and trains started to run between Paddington and Bristol. By my calculations that is 5 years and 10 months. In fact actual works didn’t start until 1836.

The 810 contract was announced on 30th July 2019, so 31st May 2025 will the equivalent end date. You can bet your life savings that the new trains won’t be running between St Pancras and Nottingham/Sheffield anywhere near that date.

Yes that’s right folks, almost 200 years later it has taken these jokers longer to build a few coaches than it took for Brunel to build an entire railway!

The management of Hitachi (and EMR) need to be hanging their heads in shame.

 

[800001]

On August 31st 1835 the Great Western Railway Act was passed and permission for the construction of the new live was formally granted On June 30th 1841 the completion of the Box Tunnel marked the end of the works and trains started to run between Paddington and Bristol. By my calculations that is 5 years and 10 months. In fact actual works didn’t start until 1836.

The 810 contract was announced on 30th July 2019, so 31st May 2025 will the equivalent end date. You can bet your life savings that the new trains won’t be running between St Pancras and Nottingham/Sheffield anywhere near that date.

Yes that’s right folks, almost 200 years later it has taken these jokers longer to build a few coaches than it took for Brunel to build an entire railway!

The management of Hitachi (and EMR) need to be hanging their heads in shame.

Can hardly blame EMR!

 

[james_the_xv]

On August 31st 1835 the Great Western Railway Act was passed and permission for the construction of the new live was formally granted On June 30th 1841 the completion of the Box Tunnel marked the end of the works and trains started to run between Paddington and Bristol. By my calculations that is 5 years and 10 months. In fact actual works didn’t start until 1836.

The 810 contract was announced on 30th July 2019, so 31st May 2025 will the equivalent end date. You can bet your life savings that the new trains won’t be running between St Pancras and Nottingham/Sheffield anywhere near that date.

Yes that’s right folks, almost 200 years later it has taken these jokers longer to build a few coaches than it took for Brunel to build an entire railway!

The management of Hitachi (and EMR) need to be hanging their heads in shame.

Did the same red tape and unionisation exist at the time of Brunel?

Sorry, but this isn't a fair comparison. Regardless of your thoughts around current regulations.