Closure of Broad Street station - Why?

[70014IronDuke]

Thread title says it all, really. I'd never really thought about it until recently, when I was outside Liverpool Street and thought about what used to be next door. So why did Broad Street close? Was closure controversial at the time? Surely, the ability to get from the LNW directly to the city was a seriously useful transport link?

Of course, it (the North London Line) was extended further east, and probably served more people as a result, but did Broad Street have to be closed to do this?

I could not help wondering that the real reason for closure was the very nice value of real estate - or at least the land - in the area, and that this took priority over any real thought for transport needs. But happy to be persuaded otherwise.

 

[rebmcr]

Very low usage, IIRC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very low usage, IIRC.

I'd imagine so. You'd only really have got passengers from south of Harrow, as using the DC line would have really slowed journeys down, making going into Euston and using the Circle/Met/H&C to Liverpool St a lot quicker.

If there were mainline platforms at Primrose Hill, even on the slow, things could have been *very* different - but was it worth the cost (and unrealised real estate money) if going into Euston and taking the Tube is perfectly adequate for that journey?

 

[TheEdge]

I do wonder if it was still there today if it could be used to help relieve some of the pressure on Liverpool Street.

 

[mwmbwls]

I do wonder if it was still there today if it could be used to help relieve some of the pressure on Liverpool Street.

By the time it closed Broad Street was very run down with limited services from Richmond and Watford. Fortunately during the period the line was closed the alignment was preserved In part, Shoreditch High Street now fills Broad Street's former role for a wider catchment area and the Dalston area is revitalised.

 

[sheff1]

Thread title says it all, really. I'd never really thought about it until recently, when I was outside Liverpool Street and thought about what used to be next door. So why did Broad Street close? Was closure controversial at the time? Surely, the ability to get from the LNW directly to the city was a seriously useful transport link?

I don't recall any great controversy. The route was not really any quicker for the majority of LNW passengers than changing onto the underground at Euston (taking into account the limited number of services to Broad St). A replacement service to Liverpool St from the LNW was introduced, but this only lasted a few years as it took even longer than the old Broad St service.

I do recall that selling the prime site for office accommodation was seen as a good thing at a time of booming property prices.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The history of Broad Street is a classic example of how stations can outlive their usefulness. When it was opened in the 1860s there was virtually no Underground, no trams, no motor buses, etc. So a classic heavy rail line was the only way to access The City. Trains ran from east (Poplar and thriving Docklands), west and north (Great Northern 'overspill' and City access).

Over the years many faster or more frequent alternatives developed. To some extent potential local demand was affected by the decline of industry, end of shift work, de-population through slum clearance, bomb damage during WW2 and so forth. Services from the east were suspended during the war and remaining GN services went with electrification and integration of the Finsbury Park-Moorgate line in the 1970s.

The station had become predominantly commuter orientated and I suspect that many City workers no longer lived on the remaining North London Line areas served.

The station had also had a major goods terminal but again modern methods of distribution had completely overtaken the requirement to have one handy for horse and cart delivery.

 

[Master29]

May dad always used to tell me about it when I was a kid. I thought he was joking until I went there. I can remember it was empty then and this was the late 70`s. That was on a Saturday afternoon though.

 

[Busaholic]

It was a classic case of making the service so unappealing, and making sure it was never advertised or promoted, that no-one would be surprised when its closure gets announced. The reason for its closure can be summarised as ££££££££££££££ in B.R. Property Board coffers plain and simple.

 

[deltic]

It was a classic case of making the service so unappealing, and making sure it was never advertised or promoted, that no-one would be surprised when its closure gets announced. The reason for its closure can be summarised as ££££££££££££££ in B.R. Property Board coffers plain and simple.

Wasnt the money raised used to pay for redevelopment of Liverpool Street?

 

[Busaholic]

Wasnt the money raised used to pay for redevelopment of Liverpool Street?

I can't give you a direct answer to that question, but with interest rates as they were then whatever sum they earned from the sale of Broad Street would have increased substantially before they started to pay for anything at Liverpool Street. An ordinary punter could get 12%!

 

[Ianno87]

I do wonder if it was still there today if it could be used to help relieve some of the pressure on Liverpool Street.

Only if you could also punch an extra pair of tracks through from Bethnal Green. Good luck.

 

[Bevan Price]

I think the decline started when Finsbury Park to Moorgate was transferred from LT to BR, with through running from the GN suburban network to Moorgate. The peak GN services to/from Broad St then finished.

And with some North London services diverted to Stratford, Broad Street had a much reduced service. A curve (Graham Road) was built to enable trains to run from Liverpool Street to the NL line, enabling Broad St. to be closed. In practice, I believe the diverted service was very unreliable and traffic almost disappeared.

My first trips into Broad St. were in 1963/64, with Class 31s and loco hauled stock (on saturday mornings) with GN suburban services. At that time, Broad St. looked OK as a medium sized terminus - unlike the sad near-dump it became in its final years.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wasnt the money raised used to pay for redevelopment of Liverpool Street?

It was, and what a jolly good job was done; A quarter of a century on and it still looks great.

It also, effectively, paid for electrification to Norwich and Cambridge. A good deal for rail users don't you think? Trading a ramshackle station that is barely used (with better alternative routes available) for a completely new and customer friendly major terminii concourse plus vastly improved services across a whole swathe of the region?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Bear in mind that there were very few trains (3 or 4 max in each peak?) from Watford Junction in the final years: the main service to Broad Street was the NLL from Richmond - which frankly for most places on the line provided a convoluted and slow route to the city; with better options either on the tube or BR for such a journey available for many of the places along the route.

It really had outlived its use. Yes, Broad Street, like the services and trains to it, and the stations they served, had been run down quite severely, but in the scheme of things it was no great loss. Selling off the land for the Broadgate development must have brought in a pretty penny for BRB - as well as helping to substantially revitalise an area of the City of London quite substantially.

 

[Busaholic]

Bear in mind that there were very few trains (3 or 4 max in each peak?) from Watford Junction in the final years: the main service to Broad Street was the NLL from Richmond - which frankly for most places on the line provided a convoluted and slow route to the city; with better options either on the tube or BR for such a journey available for many of the places along the route.

It really had outlived its use. Yes, Broad Street, like the services and trains to it, and the stations they served, had been run down quite severely, but in the scheme of things it was no great loss. Selling off the land for the Broadgate development must have brought in a pretty penny for BRB - as well as helping to substantially revitalise an area of the City of London quite substantially.

Now parts of Broadgate are themselves being redeveloped. They were in line for award of the Carbuncle Cup 2016, which goes to the worst new building of the year!

 

[AndrewE]

It was, and what a jolly good job was done; A quarter of a century on and it still looks great.

Really? I thought most of the platform length at Liverpool St was a gloomy claustrophobic hole reminiscent of Birmingham New St, apart from the absence of diesel traction. Oh for a redevelopment like Basel SBB where there is (or was) still a decent-height airy train-shed... I suppose our lot just couldn't resist the allure of that extra floor of offices!
A

 

[306024]

The East side (platforms 11-18) is indeed nothing special, but the West Side (platforms 1-10) has a magnificent trainshed. No comparison to the old Liverpool St with all its rat runs and conflicting flows.

Hamilton House and Harwich House were old railway offices off Bishopsgate which were demolished as part of Liverpoool St redevelopment. A new Hamilton House for staff was built in Appold St on the other side of the station, but that too has since been demolished.

Of course some of the old trackbed from Broad St to Dalston Jn forms part of the East London Line. The area around Shoreditch High St station is now being regenerated with some decent hotels. A far cry from some of the more dubious pubs that used to be in the area.

 

[Taunton]

Services from the east were suspended during the war .

Although public services were indeed, little known was a morning and evening unadvertised service from Broad Street to Poplar, principally for railway staff at Devons Road (Bow) depot. It ceased in the mid 1960s with the closure of the loco depot there. At the end a D80xx and a couple of carriages.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Really? I thought most of the platform length at Liverpool St was a gloomy claustrophobic hole reminiscent of Birmingham New St, apart from the absence of diesel traction. Oh for a redevelopment like Basel SBB where there is (or was) still a decent-height airy train-shed... I suppose our lot just couldn't resist the allure of that extra floor of offices!
A

The East side (platforms 11-18) is indeed nothing special, but the West Side (platforms 1-10) has a magnificent trainshed. No comparison to the old Liverpool St with all its rat runs and conflicting flows.

AndrewE, have you even been to Liverpool Street? Yes the east side is a little "Eustonian" on the platforms but the west side still looks great and the modern concourse, and its various entrances, is way better than what existed previously. Apart from a few rail enthusiasts I have never come across anyone who misses Broad Street.

 

[ac6000cw]

The East side (platforms 11-18) is indeed nothing special, but the West Side (platforms 1-10) has a magnificent trainshed. No comparison to the old Liverpool St with all its rat runs and conflicting flows.

I agree, a far better station than the old one. Without the money from redeveloping the Broad Street site (and the 'air rights' above part of Liverpool St) BR would never have been able to afford the rebuilding of Liverpool St. Personally I think it's the best major station rebuild done by BR.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I agree, a far better station than the old one. Without the money from redeveloping the Broad Street site (and the 'air rights' above part of Liverpool St) BR would never have been able to afford the rebuilding of Liverpool St. Personally I think it's the best major station rebuild done by BR.

Agreed - the old Liverpool Street was a dingy and dark hole on a Winter's evening - with atrocious access to the Tube. Today's station has much better ambience and longer platforms etc. Some bits could do with a good heavy clean though.

Broad Street lost most of it's traffic as early as the 1920's with direct bus , tram and tube links from the inner suburbs. It rolled on in an increasing slumber until it was put out of it's misery. Deserted for most the time - and a scary place late evening. (workmate was a supervisor there , who locked himself into the office after the last train has gone of a night shift)

 

[NSEFAN]

In hindsight, it was a much better idea to have done away with Broad Street and instead create a connecting route from Dalston Junction to Surrey Quays with the Overground service, even though that probably wasn't the original plan!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In hindsight, it was a much better idea to have done away with Broad Street and instead create a connecting route from Dalston Junction to Surrey Quays with the Overground service, even though that probably wasn't the original plan!

London was a very different city then - falling population and job markets - considerable urban decay in what are now "reborn" inner suburbs - (much of Hoxton and Shoreditch was semi- derelict) ...the London Overground service does much more than the old Broad Strreet did ...

 

[steamybrian]

Although public services were indeed, little known was a morning and evening unadvertised service from Broad Street to Poplar, principally for railway staff at Devons Road (Bow) depot. It ceased in the mid 1960s with the closure of the loco depot there. At the end a D80xx and a couple of carriages.

Interesting- as my research cannot find any trace of this unadvertised service. Please advise me of your source of this information.?

I used Broad Street several times including travelling on the last train in 1986.
I agree with previous statements that the station had been rundown for many years so if kept open would have needed a massive injection of investment. The station was in a prime location so in my opinion BR took the best option to take the money for the site and use it for redevelopment of the adjacent Liverpool Street.

 

[glbotu]

I think Broad Street's true downfall came because it never had a main line of its own. It was, I guess, the North London Line's terminus, but the means of getting to Broad Street were always reasonably convoluted. It's predominant services were to

a) Richmond via NLL
b) The Watford DC, via NLL and Primrose Hill
c) GN Inners via Caledonian Curve
d) Bow and Poplar.

All of which reasonably have faster ways of getting to the city, once modern-ish trains are taken into account. In 1900, when Broad Street was the busiest station in the country, that was because the fastest way of getting to the city from all these locations was a direct train, even if that train trundled along the NLL, because all the other trains also trundled along their respective routes too, especially the Metropolitan Railway.

Just 30 years later, you've already got an electrified and frequent Met from Euston, electrified and frequent District from Richmond and West London, an established Central London Railway, all of which go in much more direct routes from their origins than the North London Line. Increases in speed of trains also means that it now takes less time to get from a GN Inner station to Kings Cross or Moorgate via the Widened lines (or later to Moorgate via the GN&C) and from a LNW station to Euston, change for the Met.

All these things mean Broad Street realistically lost its purpose as a station pretty quickly.

All the other terminus stations had their main line, even if that main line was less important (like the LT&S or the Chiltern), which meant that their purpose was set. While the North London Line has obviously now seen a massive revival, it's with an entirely different purpose of making orbital links easier, not funnelling more people into the financial district(s) and behaves like an S-Bahn, rather than a main line.

 

[Taunton]

Interesting- as my research cannot find any trace of this unadvertised service. Please advise me of your source of this information.?

It's the very first entry in this PDF of unusual passenger services in 1963. N = Not Advertised.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/24htv5in4e03o6i/1963 Summer.pdf?dl=0

 

[70014IronDuke]

Fascinating thread. Thanks to all.

I did go there a couple of times (66 and 67 I think) and yes, it was pretty shabby even then.

If the money from the sale of the site was put to good use, as some note here, on the GE and at Liverpool Street, then it seems to have been a very good move indeed.

 

[steamybrian]

It's the very first entry in this PDF of unusual passenger services in 1963. N = Not Advertised.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/24htv5in4e03o6i/1963 Summer.pdf?dl=0

Thanks for the gen.
As far as I know there was no station or platform at Devons Road so it would have been interesting to understand how "passengers" boarded and alighted there.

 

[Busaholic]

Broad Street was a bit of a dump, no doubt, but then I can remember St Pancras when it was totally unloved by the railway hierarchy and left to crumble (I worked directly opposite it for a few years in the 1970s). If only Broad Street had been designed by George Gilbert Scott then it might survive today!