Cobbs historical rail atlas

[Justin Smith]

How many of you have the Cobbs rail atlas ?
Do you think it is as fantastic as I do ?
When did you buy your copy and how much did it cost ?
Can you still buy the Cobbs atlas ? Research seems inconclusive as to if an expensive limited edition version is still available. If Cobbs is NLA I think that's very sad.

I love my Cobbs, it is my favourite book. I bought it in Aug 04 for £100, apparently the price was subsidised to the tune of a quarter of a million pounds by Sir James Colyer-Ferguson as a contribution to the history of railways.
I use it so much I have had it rebound in 2020 to stop the most used pages pulling out of the bindings.
Possibly sacrilegiously I have added all new lines and stations as they are opened / reopened (all in pencil, obviously...), plus, even more sacrilegiously, the motorways and other roads of interest with their opening dates. One of the most interesting projects was researching (and adding to my Cobbs) the opening dates - and varying course of - The Great North Rd / the A1. Round Newcastle was the most interesting. It originally went through the centre of Newcastle, then, on the opening of the Tyne Tunnel it diverted to the east in 1967. Finally, in 1990, when the DC Newcastle western bypass was opened, the A1's route changed to the West of Newcastle !
In fact I put loads of historical geographical info on it (e.g. the Rivelin tunnel supplying water from Derwent reservoir to Sheffield) so I can find it easily.
I would not sell my annotated copy of Cobbs even for £1000s.
Attached is a pic of my annotated Cobbs (area west of Edinburgh) :

 

[Cowley]

I can’t say I’ve ever owned one of these but I think that may have to change soon…

This from @Adrian Barr from this thread is relevant here:

From the colliery history page linked earlier it sounds like production started in 1916, and according to the South Yorkshire Joint Railway and the Coalfield book coal shipments started in 1917. Having looked at that book again, on another page it does refer to the colliery being connected to the ECML in 1913 and to a 1913 NER act. For some reason (maybe because it wasn't in regular use yet) the colliery branch is not shown on the 1914 Railway Clearing House map, which is on this wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Yorkshire_Joint_Railway

To compare, there's currently a listing on Ebay for a 1928 RCH map of Doncaster, which shows the GNR branch but not the LMS one (which makes sense if it didn't open until 1931).
If you hover over the image you can get a better zoomed-in view: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254542896814?&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

Justin Smith said:
I love my Cobbs, it is my favourite book. I bought it in Aug 04 for £100, apparently the price was subsidised to the tune of a quarter of a million pounds by Sir James Colyer-Ferguson as a contribution to the history of railways.
I use it so much I have had it rebound in 2020 to stop the most used pages pulling out of the bindings.
Possibly sacrilegiously I have added all the motorways and other roads of interest (in pencil obviously ! ) with their opening dates.

Definitely sacrilegious! It says in the introduction that the maps used were deliberately chosen because they didn't have the motorways and other roads on them which often obscured the route of the railways they were built over. I bought the 2nd edition which I think was £120. It might seem a lot for an atlas, but when I think how much I use it, it's very good value and was a sound purchase. As far as I know there was a third (and final?) edition in 2015 (maroon covers, ISBN 0993101305) but surely that must have sold out by now, even at £295 plus postage!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Never actually seen one. Looks like an outlay of several hundred pounds would be required to do so.

 

[mailbyrail]

Took a deep breath when it was first published and decided to splash the cash - turned out to be well worth it. Apparently there was a second, updated edition in an orange cover but I've never seen it.
I was very tempted to annotate it but decided not to. Seeing the price second hand copies go for, just as well I didn't do anything to it.
The absence of industrial lines can be puzzling at times - particularly when you can see them on the base map.

 

[bramling]

How many of you have the Cobbs rail atlas ?
Do you think it is as fantastic as I do ?
When did you buy your copy and how much did it cost ?
Can you still buy the Cobbs atlas ? Research seems inconclusive as to if an expensive limited edition version is still available. If Cobbs is NLA I think that's very sad.

I love my Cobbs, it is my favourite book. I bought it in Aug 04 for £100, apparently the price was subsidised to the tune of a quarter of a million pounds by Sir James Colyer-Ferguson as a contribution to the history of railways.
I use it so much I have had it rebound in 2020 to stop the most used pages pulling out of the bindings.
Possibly sacrilegiously I have added all new lines and stations as they are opened / reopened (all in pencil, obviously...), plus, even more sacrilegiously, the motorways and other roads of interest with their opening dates. One of the most interesting projects was researching (and adding to my Cobbs) the opening dates - and varying course of - The Great North Rd / the A1. Round Newcastle was the most interesting. It originally went through the centre of Newcastle, then, on the opening of the Tyne Tunnel it diverted to the east in 1967. Finally, in 1990, when the DC Newcastle western bypass was opened, the A1's route changed to the West of Newcastle !
In fact I put loads of historical geographical info on it (e.g. the Rivelin tunnel supplying water from Derwent reservoir to Sheffield) so I can find it easily.
I would not sell my annotated copy of Cobbs even for £1000s.
Attached is a pic of my annotated Cobbs (area west of Edinburgh) :

View attachment 108242

I bought one from Ian Allan Waterloo when it first came out. It’s an excellent piece of work. I wouldn’t take its accuracy as gospel though - for obscure stuff further research does have a habit of uncovering discrepancies, but as a starting point it’s brilliant.

 

[pdeaves]

I have the first edition. It's good in having the background maps in it. My one disappointment was the lack of loop line through Liverpool. Other more up-to-date developments are shown; I wonder how a non-obscure line managed to evade the compiler and checkers (if any)!

 

[Justin Smith]

I bought one from Ian Allan Waterloo when it first came out. It’s an excellent piece of work. I wouldn’t take its accuracy as gospel though - for obscure stuff further research does have a habit of uncovering discrepancies, but as a starting point it’s brilliant.

I find it accurate the vast majority of the time. As and when I find certain errors I correct them, in pencil obviously !

Took a deep breath when it was first published and decided to splash the cash - turned out to be well worth it. Apparently there was a second, updated edition in an orange cover but I've never seen it.
I was very tempted to annotate it but decided not to. Seeing the price second hand copies go for, just as well I didn't do anything to it.
The absence of industrial lines can be puzzling at times - particularly when you can see them on the base map.

But what is more important, getting full use out of it for the rest of our lives, or the fact it might be worth less after we've got the chop ?

 

[S&CLER]

I was left a copy by a friend with whom I used to go walking, when he died. I went up on the train to Nethertown to collect it from his widow, who told me that she had bought it for him as a wedding anniversary present . It is a prized possession.

 

[Justin Smith]

I was left a copy by a friend with whom I used to go walking, when he died. I went up on the train to Nethertown to collect it from his widow, who told me that she had bought it for him as a wedding anniversary present . It is a prized possession.

A free copy of Cobbs, you lucky man, particularly as it has memories for you. Bet you'd never sell it !

 

[WesternLancer]

I've got one, certainly a prized possession. Given to me by my late uncle and my mum as a present for a special birthday.

Obviously a truly impressive work but I've always been surprised it was not printed on better quality paper with better quality binding - though it is heavy enough as it is so I suspect to do that would have required breaking it down into more volumes, so may have been easier said than done.

I am extremely pleased to have a copy.

 

[Justin Smith]

I agree the bindings could have been better. Did I hear later (more expensive) editions had better bindings ? As I said earlier I had mine rebound in 2020. The bookbinder stripped it all down, used bookbinder tape to strengthen the gutter on the most used pages and re-stitched it all using more stiches and stronger thread. It doesn't look as good, it no longer has the original covers and the re-stitched sections are no longer perfectly aligned at the outside edge, but it's much more durable now. I kept worrying how long it'd stay in one piece before, it gets that much use !

It is also a bit unfortunate it's "split" where it is because one volume is significantly bigger than the other, I assume it was done there (in a line about where Northallerton is) because are fewest lines were in that area ?

I had the pleasure of helping Col Cobb in the year or two after I first got my book by sending him corrections I had noticed needed rectifying, which he received most gratefully. I remember one was the originally incorrect reinstated curve from Swinton to Mexborough. Was that updated in the reprints ?

I've got one, certainly a prized possession. Given to me by my late uncle and my mum as a present for a special birthday.

Was that new ? I only ask because I am trying to find out (just out of interest ! ) if one can still buy Cobbs.

 

[WesternLancer]

Was that new ? I only ask because I am trying to find out (just out of interest ! ) if one can still buy Cobbs.

Yes, it was new when I got it (green cover edition) - was probably not that long after publication as I recall I read a review of it in the Friends of the NRM journal - if you have not seen that they always do a good and robust review of newly published railway books - or a fair number of them anyway - and the review convinced me it must be a good book.

So that probably does not help too much with your question on whether it is still published new.

I think I would have liked a less grey base mapping, as I very much enjoy the colours of the OS edition used. However, I say 'think' because I assume Col Cobb and publishers would have played about with various options prior to printing and found that not desirable.

 

[EveningStar]

How many of you have the Cobbs rail atlas ?
Do you think it is as fantastic as I do ?
When did you buy your copy and how much did it cost ?
Can you still buy the Cobbs atlas ? Research seems inconclusive as to if an expensive limited edition version is still available. If Cobbs is NLA I think that's very sad.

Have my own copy of Cobbs, second edition. Was expensive, although not the most expensive book in my library as I do have a few limited print run specialist books for work ... and money spent on a good book is never money wasted! Actually got it with lecturer 10% discount as a special order from our bookshop on campus. Picked it up and on way back to office dropped into see psychology lecturer friend who remarked I was stroking the book while making Gollum type 'my precious' noises about my latest acquisition. She also thought me insane for spending so much money on a rail atlas, yet was gracious enough to concede if I think it money well spent, that is reason enough.

Remembering reading Colonel Cobb's obituary a good few years ago. Gather he got his PhD from Cambridge for research into the atlas, which gets my respect.

 

[John Hunt]

The Atlas is still available at a discounted price of £295 to Cambridge alumni.

The Railways of Great Britain: A Historical Atlas

The only railway atlas to Great Britain in existence and the definitive historic guide to all the railways in Britain, both existing and lost. All train lines in operation between 1807 and 1994 are dramatically set in colour against an Ordnance Survey grid, alongside the names of the companies...

www.alumni.cam.ac.uk

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does the embedded link within the above still work?

 

[etr221]

Does the embedded link within the above still work?

Checking, no it doesn't. And following the 'Buy on line' link to Heffers/Blackwell's leads to an 'out of stock' message.

 

[20Man]

I have a first edition, a very useful edition to the collection.

 

[Busaholic]

It would appear that if any stock was still available it would only be through Col Cobb's son. Patrick, even assuming he is still alive. He then seems (or seemed) to sell them through the Alumni, probably the only practicable way to purchase one. It appeared to gain a third edition, but how limited the print run was I do not know. It sounds a fascinating atlas, and if I had an abiding interest in the subject I'd say well worth the price, even for the impecunious. There's no such thing as having too many books.

 

[Justin Smith]

It would appear that if any stock was still available it would only be through Col Cobb's son. Patrick, even assuming he is still alive. He then seems (or seemed) to sell them through the Alumni, probably the only practicable way to purchase one. It appeared to gain a third edition, but how limited the print run was I do not know. It sounds a fascinating atlas, and if I had an abiding interest in the subject I'd say well worth the price, even for the impecunious. There's no such thing as having too many books.

Space !

Last year when, just out of interest, I researched if Cobbs was still available, there were hints that a very expensive edition (in red with better quality bindings ?) was obtainable. But, as I say, it wasn't beyond doubt.

A Cobbs was for sale on E Bay in Nov last year :

Ended:15 Nov, 2021 17:52:16 GMT
Price:£450.00
Best Offer accepted

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324758807673

 

[Justin Smith]

Unusually there a couple of Cobbs Atlases on E Bay at the moment.

One at £140 1st Edition, 2003, apparently very good condition.

One at £199 "as new"

 

[Western Sunset]

A disident voice here, I'm afraid.
If your interests are in the South West and the South of England, I find "An Atlas of the Railways in South West and Central Southern England" by Stuart Malthouse (Crecy, 2019) to be a more accurate and comprehensive resource.

 

[Matey]

How well does Cobb's Atlas compare with Jowett's Railway Atlas?

 

[Western Sunset]

How well does Cobb's Atlas compare with Jowett's Railway Atlas?

I don't think I would be able to be diplomatic if I gave an honest answer...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How well does Cobb's Atlas compare with Jowett's Railway Atlas?

I don't think I would be able to be diplomatic if I gave an honest answer...

Whh not? Presumably one is superior to the other?

 

[Western Sunset]

Different audience I think.
Pros and cons of both. I find the cartography of the Jowett atlases very crude. Think I'll leave it at that...

 

[mailbyrail]

Cobb got a PhD for his work, Jowett didn't..............

 

[Sunil_P]

I bought a copy of Cobb about 10 years ago. Very pricey, but worth it!

 

[Revaulx]

Different audience I think.
Pros and cons of both. I find the cartography of the Jowett atlases very crude. Think I'll leave it at that...

I was perusing Jowett with a genuine intention to buy it in the old Ian Allan shop on Manchester Piccadilly Approach many years ago. It went back on the shelf when I saw that Standedge and Summit tunnels were mixed up

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I was perusing Jowett with a genuine intention to buy it in the old Ian Allan shop on Manchester Piccadilly Approach many years ago. It went back on the shelf when I saw that Standedge and Summit tunnels were mixed up

That's poor, unless it was a deliberate mistake ("map trap") that had been introduced in an attempt to guard against unauthorised use / copyright infringement.

 

[Western Sunset]

To Jowett's credit, his volume on railway centres with maps showing how they grew (and declined) is interesting and worth getting. His style is based on the RCH maps; but those were finely drawn. If Jowett was a touch neater...

I think there is a place for hand-drawn maps; I find those created by computer often lack any style. This is one I did of Derby canals in the centre of the town a few years ago, but they might not be everyone's cup of tea...