Collecting a ticket but paid using a virtual card

[Watershed]

That still doesn't explain the purpose of requiring a card to be presented for "any card collection". The card is obviously not being used to verify anything, so why require it to be presented at all?

How exactly does requiring any card to be presented, and then blindly accepting whatever card it is without anything being verified, prevent the scam you described?

It doesn't. Like many things in the rail industry, it's a hangover from the past. But retailers can't set bookings to "don't require a card" - they can only set "allow any card" or "require this specific card".

The industry isn't going to change that though, as TOD will soon be retired. I don't think that's a good idea, as e-tickets aren't a full, proper replacement (not least as you can't print out a copy of your e-ticket at the machine) - but it will likely happen regardless.

 

[Argyle 1980]

Might be wrong but think it was one of the reasons Trainline only accepts Klarna for Etickets.
I used to use the Zilch app when it was 5% cashback for using the virtual Mastercard and had same problem with collection though ticket offices never had an issue printing them for me. The GWR machines wouldn't allow any card collection but Southeasterns always did.

 

[Dent]

It doesn't. Like many things in the rail industry, it's a hangover from the past. But retailers can't set bookings to "don't require a card" - they can only set "allow any card" or "require this specific card".

I don't think this can really be described as a hangover from the past, as there was never any good reason for requiring some random card to be presented if that card was not used to verify anything.

 

[Ediswan]

I don't think this can really be described as a hangover from the past, as there was never any good reason for requiring some random card to be presented if that card was not used to verify anything.

Maybe it was easier to change the TVM system to allow 'any card' than it was to add support for 'no card required'.

 

[ModernRailways]

I seldom use the rail service, so am I just out of touch and this is how things are and I'm wasting my time? Or do you feel my complaint has sufficient substance so that it’s worth continuing?

Thanks for any assistance and input you can provide.

Do you have Twitter? If so, contact Lumo, publicly, on there. I would also advise tweeting their MD who is pretty active and is pretty good with trying to resolve issues https://twitter.com/NEMartijn/

I would also try giving them a call, you will have a Lumo case reference, if the person you speak to cannot assist you then ask for a manager. You will need to push for a manager, be assertive, as they are told not to put managers on.

The booking can be changed to any card collect but it is restricted for fraud prevention so they won't typically do it.

When you initially got advised to buy new tickets and refund them, did you do this by phone, live chat, or was it via email? If it was a phone call, or live chat, put in a SAR request to them for the call recording, or live chat transcript - this info is held for quite some time in the system they use. If it was email, then simply copy that email and quote it to Lumo.

Did you use the Lumo refund portal to claim for your refund or did you do it via their customer experience team? If the latter, fill in the form linked below, they will likely reject it, however, then you can log a further complaint and appeal the refund decision. If they do reject it, it may be best to call them with the refund reference, advise them of the full situation and then they can push it forward, again speaking to a manager can help here. When doing the refund form make sure you put in the tickets you ended up using, and the booking code for the tickets that remained unused.

Link to refund form: https://refunds.lumo.co.uk

All in, this should take around a week or two to be sorted, if you still don't get anywhere and it just goes back to square one drop me a PM with your case ref with Lumo and I'll shoot it across to a friend and see if they can do anything

 

[SussexMan]

I don't think this can really be described as a hangover from the past, as there was never any good reason for requiring some random card to be presented if that card was not used to verify anything.

I use an "any card" retailer but I have always assumed that the presentation of a card provides a track of which card has been used to collect which could be used if there was some criminal activity in the purchasing/collection of tickets.

 

[charlie04]

As an update, some ‘good’ news - the Ombudsman has informed me Lumo is offering to refund the second ticket I had to purchase. This is all I was originally seeking when I made the complaint, so I’ve accepted it despite all that Lumo has made me go through to get to this point.

As in the earlier post, my previous response was sending the video of me going through the booking journey and asking where the terms and conditions and warning were that prohibits using a virtual card (which Lumo was saying was there).

They obviously can’t find it given their response is offering to refund me the ticket.

The only other information I was given in the response was that Lumo doesn’t control the booking portal when someone clicks through to buy a ticket from the NR website, as that booking journey is managed by a third party company. I suspect they’re trying to suggest the terms/warning not to use a virtual card isn’t present during that boking journey, as they have no control over it. This seems extraordinary - how can you not be in control of your own booking journey? - but there we go.

@ModernRailways thanks for your comments. I’ve replied below to your questions as the information may help someone who finds themselves in a similar situation in the future, or might simply be useful information for others:

• Yes I had already used the refund form, and then submitted a complaint when they rejected the refund. I don’t have Twitter but I probably will sign up just to send the MD a message and let him know how they’ve conducted themselves with this complaint.
  
  
• It was on live chat when I was advised to buy a second ticket and then seek a refund for it. I saved the transcript at the time and submitted it as part of the refund request and then complaint with Lumo, and also as part of the complaint with the Ombudsman. Still Lumo pushed back the entire time up until now. I didn't ask to speak to a manager or someone more senior, but I will bear that in mind should I encounter such a situation in the future (although most likely with another operator, as I'll never go near Lumo again).

 

[richw]

just to send the MD a message and let him know how they’ve conducted themselves with this complaint.

Martijn Gilbert is an excellent leader in transport, he hasn’t long taken over the Lumo job in September. I can be confident he will be making many improvements and wouldn’t tolerate your experiences

 

[ModernRailways]

@ModernRailways thanks for your comments. I’ve replied below to your questions as the information may help someone who finds themselves in a similar situation in the future, or might simply be useful information for others:

• Yes I had already used the refund form, and then submitted a complaint when they rejected the refund. I don’t have Twitter but I probably will sign up just to send the MD a message and let him know how they’ve conducted themselves with this complaint.
  
  
• It was on live chat when I was advised to buy a second ticket and then seek a refund for it. I saved the transcript at the time and submitted it as part of the refund request and then complaint with Lumo, and also as part of the complaint with the Ombudsman. Still Lumo pushed back the entire time up until now. I didn't ask to speak to a manager or someone more senior, but I will bear that in mind should I encounter such a situation in the future (although most likely with another operator, as I'll never go near Lumo again).

Firstly, glad to hear it's been sorted, but obviously a right pain and the amount of time and effort isn't good so definitely get it sent across. As @richw says Martijn is pretty on the ball with this kind of thing, and will want to ensure it doesn't happen again so throw him a quick message with your case reference and issues you've had getting it resolved and I'm sure he'll look into it.

Definitely in future give them a lot of push back and escalate it further, the call centre they use is fairly useless (same place as Avanti, and TPE iirc) with training seemingly non-existent. The lack of reply to you for a complaint is the biggest thing here and really needs raising. I know for cases that are given a reference 'ECTL-WEB-XXXXXX' that they tend to get a reply pretty quick in the first instance but then if you reply back they just seem to vanish, and you're actually better filling another form in and adding in the previous reply from them. You might get a reply, but it could be a couple months later. If you get a reference 'ECTL-CR-XXXXXX' then usually it takes a while for the first reply, but once the dialogue is open they tend to be quite quick at getting back.