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Commuting from st albans to st pancras

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j0hn0

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Mornin all

My experiences of commuting on the wcml are well documented, it is probably fair to say that I am an angry commuter.

Mitigating this, I am moving to st albans. Frying pan into the fire?

There are lots of trains, short journey times, and relatively cheap season tickets to london. However, fcc have a really poor satisfaction record, so is this related to the reliability of the route during thameslink upgrade and/or lack of information?

I have also heard the trains are crowded in peak (which ones aren't?) But its that you rarely get a seat. Are there any trains less crowded than others?

Your opinions are appreciated
 
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Failed Unit

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From St Albans the staff shortages last year have not really been forgiven. Which is on reason for the low rating. I don't use the route myself in the peak but my friend does. Before 0715 you stand a better chance of a seat. Look at the timetable for where the train starts. Typically if they start from Luton you chances are higher. Likewise the all stations services are typically not as full after St Albans.

One of the worse routes for crowding from what I understand as it is full. 8 cars and by frequency compared to great northern and Northampton routes which are now 12 cars on some trains.

Car parking isn't cheap or plentiful at St Albans either, but my friend typically walks.
 

j0hn0

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Thanks failed unit

I will be walking to the station luckily but will check the starting points as you say. Whilst my girlfriend and I both work in london, we will save 700quid a month taking everything into account

We tried to find something in Berkhamsted but failed. LM are having quite a few issues with cancelled trains due to driver shortages too, or is that lack of properly paid overtime :)

Are the fasts the electrostars?
 

bengley

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Thanks failed unit

I will be walking to the station luckily but will check the starting points as you say. Whilst my girlfriend and I both work in london, we will save 700quid a month taking everything into account

We tried to find something in Berkhamsted but failed. LM are having quite a few issues with cancelled trains due to driver shortages too, or is that lack of properly paid overtime :)

Are the fasts the electrostars?

It varies, there are more 319s around than electrostars so 319 is more likely.
 

John Webb

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Welcome to St Albans! You will, of course, fairly soon have the benefit of 12-car trains on the line to St Pancras which should ease the seating problem.

Some trains turn-back at St Albans, so you can be pretty certain of a seat - the downside is that they are the stopping at every station 'slow' train - the choice is yours.

(And don't forget to come and see the restored St Albans South signal box - you'll be passing it every day - see http://www.sigbox.co.uk for Open Day information.
 

Firestarter

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The 05:38, 05:58, 06:36, 07:26, 07:38, 08:00, 09:04, 09:32 Dep to Brighton are are booked 8 car 377's (Electrostar )unless theirs an operational reason why they can't be on that day. The trains that start from Luton or St Albans are you best bet in fact only bet if you want a guaranteed seat between 07:26 and 10:00.
 

bengolding

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As others have point out, it is a relatively short journey to St Pancras, but you will be packed in like sardines for that duration. I commuted First Class for 2 days a while back and even that compartment was full and standing on arrival at St Albans, the same for the return in the evening peak where at least there was the consolation of a RPI check with subsequent penalty fares handed out.

Has there ever been an intercity service stopping at St Albans? I know that MML never did so and it would be crazy to do so in the peak, but I'm sure fast expressed from the Midlands did stop there once.
 

jon0844

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FC is a joke on the TL side of FCC as everyone seems to upgrade themselves. On the GN side, you stand a pretty good chance of being caught.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk
 

Oswyntail

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...
Has there ever been an intercity service stopping at St Albans? I know that MML never did so and it would be crazy to do so in the peak, but I'm sure fast expressed from the Midlands did stop there once.
I used to catch an IC train to and from StP on Sundays in 1978ish - peaks and Mk2s. I couldn't say whether there were weekday services.
 

Bald Rick

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As someone who does it every day...

There are fast trains non-stop to St Pancras every 10 mins from 0618 - 0728, then roughly 2 fast trains every 15 mins (at 4/8 min intervals) until 0844. You will not get a seat on any of these after the 0658 unless it's a Friday, you stand at the back of the platform and/or you are lucky. They take 19/20 mins to St Pancras LL. Avoid the 0738 at all costs as that is the only high peak train via London Bridge and regularly leaves people behind.

To be sure of a seat get a semi-fast, calling Radlett, Elstree, Mill Hill (sometimes) and West Hampstead. These take 8 mins longer than the fasts, run every 20 mins from 0704, then 0800, 0816, 0834, 0908.

Then there are the all stations, 3 or 4 an hour, some of which start at St Abans, taking around 15 mins longer than the fasts. These are empty at St Albans. Between 30-50% of St Albans commuters take a semi-fast or slow as they would rather have a seat than 8 extra mins in bed.

Coming home it gets slightly trickier - the only way to be sure of a seat regardless of the stopping pattern is to board at Blackfriars or City, or the very front of the train at Farringdon on the second fast one of a pair 4 mins apart. Again, avoid the 1746 off St Pancras as this is the one peak London Bridge train.

12 car trains are due this December, however as there are no new trains I believe that they will only operate on the 0728, 0738 and 0800 in the morning, not sure in the pm. Given that these all have comfortably more people standing than extra seats available with 4 more cars on, there will still be standing, and of course those who currently get a slower train are more likely to migrate to them.

A tip - with 4 minute headways through the core section, when something goes wrong it goes wrong badly and quickly, particularly in the evening. For example a problem down in Brighton will stop a couple of peak trains coming through and that is enough to cause gross overcrowding. In these circumstances the best bet is to let a couple go (you won't be able to get on anyway) and get on the third or fourth train. You may not get a seat but you will be able to breathe.

By the way season tickets are not relatively cheap. Nearly £3k for 20 miles, which I think is the most expensive per mile ticket into London. If you think about doing a self-upgrade to first class, the RPIs go into first class about 1:10 trips, primarily because they physically can't get into standard. They have recently started charging twice the FC single fare to the next stop (£32 for St Albans - STP) as a penalty plus the fist class fare for the rest of the journey, rather than the £20 everyone was used to. There are a surprising number of people with first class tickets, and I don't mean free staff passes!

Finally, welcome to St Albans. The pubs are great, particularly in the older part of town.

Good luck!
 
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GarethW

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As others have point out, it is a relatively short journey to St Pancras, but you will be packed in like sardines for that duration. I commuted First Class for 2 days a while back and even that compartment was full and standing on arrival at St Albans, the same for the return in the evening peak where at least there was the consolation of a RPI check with subsequent penalty fares handed out.

Has there ever been an intercity service stopping at St Albans? I know that MML never did so and it would be crazy to do so in the peak, but I'm sure fast expressed from the Midlands did stop there once.

Yes, there were the Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield semi-fasts from late 70s through to at least 83 (poss later?), first stop St Albans usually Peak plus a rake of Mk 1s.
 

mwmbwls

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Mornin all

My experiences of commuting on the wcml are well documented, it is probably fair to say that I am an angry commuter.

Mitigating this, I am moving to st albans. Frying pan into the fire?

There are lots of trains, short journey times, and relatively cheap season tickets to london. However, fcc have a really poor satisfaction record, so is this related to the reliability of the route during thameslink upgrade and/or lack of information?

I have also heard the trains are crowded in peak (which ones aren't?) But its that you rarely get a seat. Are there any trains less crowded than others?

Your opinions are appreciated

When you get to London do walk or use the tube for the final leg of your journey?
 

John Webb

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Yes, there were the Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield semi-fasts from late 70s through to at least 83 (poss later?), first stop St Albans usually Peak plus a rake of Mk 1s.

I haven't got the timetables for that period, but I recall that St Albans lost the fast stopping expresses running to/from North of Bedford when the electric service started in 1982, on the grounds that you could catch a frequent electric train to Luton and get the express there.
 

Firestarter

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12 car trains are due this December, however as there are no new trains I believe that they will only operate on the 0728, 0738 and 0800 in the morning, not sure in the pm.

Not sure about the 0728 cause it currently go via Tulse Hill which can't handle 12 cars unless they use SDO at this station. I think the 0827 will be 12 cars.
 

asylumxl

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I commute on this route all the time. My advice for commuting from SAC to STP would be this.

Do not be afraid to be rude or forceful, the vast majority of commuters are anyway. Push your way through if there is an empty seat and if people will not move their legs even after being asked politely.

If you can, board the train somewhere further south on the return journey. The train generally is quiet until City Thameslink, then is crammed by Farringdon.

LiKe folk have said, look for the 4 and 8 car stops, and place yourself at the far ends on the train (front is usually quiet) as many people will just stand near the entrances.
 

GarethW

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I haven't got the timetables for that period, but I recall that St Albans lost the fast stopping expresses running to/from North of Bedford when the electric service started in 1982, on the grounds that you could catch a frequent electric train to Luton and get the express there.

A quick Google search doesn't tell me the date of Bedpan electrification - but I remember an 86 being named by John Betjeman in late May/June 83 at St Pancras, which iirc was to celebrate the "official" energisation of the wires.

I was up in town to retake A levels just round the corner, one paper in the morning, one in the afternoon, a happy coincidence, so popped in to take a few snaps of the 86 at Pancras. :D
 

j0hn0

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Wow thanks for all the great info, very much appreciated, pubs too! :)

My onward journey is to gt portland st on the circle so in terms of the return journey, i may continue to farringdon and change there.
I agree that it helps to be assertive with such busy routes, I shall apply the Haarlem to Amsterdam method I learned whilst working over there :)

This thread is bookmarked, thanks again all
 

muug1982

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I occasionally do this journey and whenever I need the Circle, I always stay on as for as Farringdon. By the time you've come up from the Thameslink platforms in the crush, walked the length of St Pancras and then joined the Tube crush at KC it can feel like you've done a day's work already (I appreciate the regular commuters will get used to it) The platforms at Farringdon are adjacent so it's about 5 steps between trains.

Not sure what impact that would have on ticket validity though. There are lots of threads on that.
 

jon0844

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Whenever I've needed to get to St Albans (if the GN side is buggered) it has often been very busy, but I've never had to let a train go.

Of course, during disruption (or where trains are cancelled), the residual delays mount up and of course you now have two 8-cars trying to get into 1 8-car.. so the advice to just wait a bit is very good.

However, it's also worth considering that just as I will use the TL route to get home to Hatfield (via St Albans) when there's disruption, there's nothing to stop you walking over to King's Cross and taking a train to Hatfield and then a bus/taxi to St Albans. If the disruption is bad enough, they may lay on coaches. Otherwise you may just get them letting you exit with a St Albans ticket and you are on your own - but a cab isn't too much and buses are fairly regular. Sometimes you'll just want to get home!

By comparison, the GN side is amazing - and you'll nearly always get a seat.
 

PTF62

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FC is a joke on the TL side of FCC as everyone seems to upgrade themselves. On the GN side, you stand a pretty good chance of being caught.

Maybe on the southern part of the GN route, but for those of us travelling further north (i.e. first stop Stevenage trains) you are lucky to see an RPI twice a year.

I noticed recently as well, FCC seemed to have given up enforcing the evening peak, as at both Kings Cross and their destination, people with off-peak tickets were just being waved through the barriers. It made for some quite crowded half-term trains.
 

jon0844

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Elaine Holt did say on the FCC online forum when she was still there that if they managed to reduce overcrowding they would review the evening peak. Few believed it, and I'm not convinced that's the reason, but perhaps FCC is going to ditch it now they've got the extra trains/strengthened carriages?

One advantage is that the trains immediately after the evening peak will be a lot emptier, as these can be more crowded than any peak train as a result of people having to wait.

Personally, I wonder what's going on as in the last few days I've not seen gateline staff at Potters Bar (0935), WGC (1915) or Hatfield (1930). However, I have had a few people checking on trains (on their own, so probably not that effective against groups).
 

PTF62

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I'm not convinced that's the reason, but perhaps FCC is going to ditch it now they've got the extra trains/strengthened carriages?

I think the gateline staff have just got fed up with the arguments with parents with small children, either at Kings Cross telling them that they have to hang around for 2 1/2 hours before being able to travel, or at their destination when they are told that they have to pay the difference for peak tickets.

And during half-term the majority of people on the 16:40 Peterborough service seemed to be made up of 'off-peak' passengers, so lots of potential arguments.
 

MikeWh

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They have recently started charging twice the FC single fare to the next stop (£32 for St Albans - STP) as a penalty plus the fist class fare for the rest of the journey, rather than the £20 everyone was used to.

That's correct. The penalty fare is £20 or twice the full single fare to the next stop, whichever is the more expensive. Then it's the full fare for the rest of the journey, unless you want to get off at the next stop and take advantage of any reductions you might be entitled to.
 

jon0844

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I can't believe they weren't doing this before. I trust the FCC RPIs on the TL side knew the rules (£20 or twice the fare, whichever is the greater) given it's written all over the stickers and warning posters!

They have the power to properly penalise those upgrading themselves (and plenty seem to do so) and then wimp out. It's a wonder anyone bothers to actually get a first class ticket/season!
 

causton

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Potters Bar has never had any people on the gateline at the times I have been there in the last few weeks (last experience was 10am this morning!)

And whilst waiting for a friend there have been lots of people at the self-serve ticket machines for a while, glance over at the barriers, press the 'Cancel' button and nip through!


But in any case... you may wish to consider going to Hatfield and using the buses/taxis to St Albans. (Try and catch the 724 - it skips half the stops. If not the T5 is always deserted, being a latecomer to the Hat-St A corridor)
 

b0b

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I can't believe they weren't doing this before. I trust the FCC RPIs on the TL side knew the rules (£20 or twice the fare, whichever is the greater) given it's written all over the stickers and warning posters!

wonder if you could get out of the 20 quid PF by arguing it was incorrectly issued? :D
 

jon0844

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wonder if you could get out of the 20 quid PF by arguing it was incorrectly issued? :D

Now that would be funny! I'd almost be tempted to do this just to appeal and demand a higher penalty, then publish the results!
 
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