Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[alex397]

My guess is only large flagship pubs/bars will survive along with the little micro brewery outlets that have popped up over the last few years. Anything else is doomed.

CJ

I hope that won’t be the case. But who knows what will happen. Even in the worst case scenario, I think some independent places will survive.

Despite people talking about the ‘death of the High Street’, it’s still easier than I thought to find independent places. I just hope the trend isnt accelarated and we end up with high streets mostly chain pubs, chain coffee shops and supermarkets. What a hugely boring place that would be.

The joy of traditional independent pubs, micro pubs and the modern craft beer places, is that you can usually have a chat with the staff, and punters are generally friendlier too. A contrast to the largely robotic tired-of-life staff in a Spoons.

 

[37424]

And so the misery continues........ Marstons are now shredding 2150 jobs as a result of the knock on effect this mess is having on the licencing industry.

I am actually starting to think that Boris may have a deluded plan in his warp mind - continue to destroy enough pubs & bars and it might actually reduce the binge drinking culture and assist the NHS long term.

CJ

Well Marston's seemed to go on a bit of a spree of building new pubs especially Carvery Pubs around 10 years ago. There was one built near me and initially it seemed to be fairly successful, but a few years ago a competitor built another Carvery Pub which was regarded as better, result supply outstripped demand and the Marston's pub has struggled ever since. If it closed obviously it would be grim for those that loose their jobs, but otherwise it wouldn't be missed, then there is also a nearby Food Pub which was closed an up for sale before covid and I think reflects the general over provision in this sector before covid.

 

[Swanny200]

Does make me wonder what will happen with the likes of Toby and the other carvery groups? some of them rely on packing their places on a Sunday with the long conga line queuing for their roasts, I would imagine the distance restrictions alone will be really affecting them just now.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I know Greene King have already taken a hit and they have the Hungry Horse chain too.

The problem is with some of these places is their locality. There are a few near me that are situated on major roads, but not close to residential areas. That means there is less likely chance they will build up a base of 'regulars' who will simply have a few pints and pass the time with conversation or a quite read of the paper.

There is a large Marstons pub near my friend in Leicestershire which is a good 15 minute walk from his house - fine in summer when the sun is out, but winter means possibly a taxi or one of you being the designated driver relegated to Pepsi Max.

Some of these places seemed to be focused on the family diners, who come in their cars anyway. However, it feels like Marstons have put more eggs in one basket and not taken into consideration the market for the traditional pub drinker who would bring in more revenue.

A few forum members on here are anti-Weatherspoons, but I will say that like em or loathe em, Spoons seem to have found the right balance for dining or just having a few pints close to your door step. How many Spoons do you see on a A road near on the edge of an industrial estate or behind a business park?

CJ

 

[SteveM70]

Does make me wonder what will happen with the likes of Toby and the other carvery groups? some of them rely on packing their places on a Sunday with the long conga line queuing for their roasts, I would imagine the distance restrictions alone will be really affecting them just now.

Yes, plus I’d imagine any sort of self-service from a hot plate is verboten nowadays. Certainly the two hotels I’ve stayed in since March had replaced self service all you can eat breakfast with ordering from the table

 

[johntea]

Spoons £105.4M loss is perhaps a sign of major trouble ahead for all the other pub chains!

 

[37424]

Yes, plus I’d imagine any sort of self-service from a hot plate is verboten nowadays. Certainly the two hotels I’ve stayed in since March had replaced self service all you can eat breakfast with ordering from the table

The biggest Carvery near me has adopted still coming up to the serving station only when invited but the staff put all the food on the plate as requested rather than the veg help yourself, another one is just plated carvery.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Maybe the era of Carvery is over. Everyone (almost everyone) is now very cautious about hygiene because of Covid. Some of these Sunday carveries I've seen over the years have felt like a free for all, with diners poking & proding food in the hot plates, sometimes using their hands or their own utensils to remove food from the hot plates.

I used to hate it when some bright spark would use a serving spoon for different foods and contaminate the mash with peas or the chips ended up sharing their container with the carrots and turnips because someone used the same pincers.

I much prefer a set meal now in a local pub, knowing that at least it has been prepared in a safe hygienic kitchen.

CJ

 

[trebor79]

I've never liked carveries. The veg is always mushy, overcooked and tasteless from being kept warm. Much prefer a plated meal served to the table, perhaps with veg in dishes to serve at the table.

 

[Trackman]

Maybe the era of Carvery is over. Everyone (almost everyone) is now very cautious about hygiene because of Covid. Some of these Sunday carveries I've seen over the years have felt like a free for all, with diners poking & proding food in the hot plates, sometimes using their hands or their own utensils to remove food from the hot plates.

I used to hate it when some bright spark would use a serving spoon for different foods and contaminate the mash with peas or the chips ended up sharing their container with the carrots and turnips because someone used the same pincers.

I much prefer a set meal now in a local pub, knowing that at least it has been prepared in a safe hygienic kitchen.

CJ

Chinese buffets spring to mind and ten times as worse.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Chinese buffets spring to mind and ten times as worse.

There's a couple of Chinese restaurants near to where I live - the fact you can smell these places when you drive past is enough to convince me a meal there would not be advisable.

Going back to the original topic - Pret-A-Manger are now shedding a further 400 jobs and closing another six outlets. I have a feeling this situation is only going to intensify over the next few weeks.

Lancashire has now been put in Tier 3 with Greater Manchester not far behind. My guess is that derelict pubs with Salford curtains (steel shutters) and vacant business premises will become a common site in the next few years, with town centres simply being held together by poundshops, mobile phone shops, Greggs, McDonald's, Primark and Mike Ashley Direct.

CJ

 

[xotGD]

"Edinburgh Woollen Mill (EWM), which also owns Peacocks and Jaeger, has confirmed that 600 jobs are to go and that 50 stores will close.

The shops affected are mainly Peacocks and Edinburgh Woollen Mill branches and the staff being made redundant are mostly shop-floor workers."

 

[Busaholic]

"Edinburgh Woollen Mill (EWM), which also owns Peacocks and Jaeger, has confirmed that 600 jobs are to go and that 50 stores will close.

The shops affected are mainly Peacocks and Edinburgh Woollen Mill branches and the staff being made redundant are mostly shop-floor workers."

Huge closing down sale notices plastering Penzance Peacocks this afternoon, the largest clothing store in the town since New Look closed a year or two back.

 

[Westcountryman]

"Edinburgh Woollen Mill (EWM), which also owns Peacocks and Jaeger, has confirmed that 600 jobs are to go and that 50 stores will close.

The shops affected are mainly Peacocks and Edinburgh Woollen Mill branches and the staff being made redundant are mostly shop-floor workers."

And our branch of Edinburgh Woolen Mill only opened 3 weeks ago!

 

[Busaholic]

There's been plenty of discussion about W H Smith on here, but the latest news on their High Street shops is interesting. The Manager of my local store is being made redundant in two weeks' time, along with managers of all other stores in Cornwall and, I suspect, further afield. I've known him slightly over a number of years, and we have a mutual friend, so popping into the store late yesterday afternoon and finding him there, surrounded by absolutely no customers or other staff, I had a good chat with him. He's mid 50s, spent last thirty years working for Smith's and had worked in all their Cornish shops bar Newquay. He said WHS had always been a good employer from his point of view, but the percentage of an individual shop's salary bill that was spent on management staff had increased from about 20% to 40% in recent years, which was unsustainable. He had been given the choice of keeping his current salary level but become responsible for five stores, accept re-employment in the new role of Store Leader at significantly reduced salary, or accept reasonably generous redundancy terms. He'd chosen the latter, as had most if not all of his fellow managers.He also revealed something very interesting about the Post Office side, which form such an important side of Smith's presence these days, but he swore me to secrecy on it: suffice to say, the P.O. presence virtually assures WHS's continued existence.

 

[david1212]

There's been plenty of discussion about W H Smith on here, but the latest news on their High Street shops is interesting. The Manager of my local store is being made redundant in two weeks' time, along with managers of all other stores in Cornwall and, I suspect, further afield. I've known him slightly over a number of years, and we have a mutual friend, so popping into the store late yesterday afternoon and finding him there, surrounded by absolutely no customers or other staff, I had a good chat with him. He's mid 50s, spent last thirty years working for Smith's and had worked in all their Cornish shops bar Newquay. He said WHS had always been a good employer from his point of view, but the percentage of an individual shop's salary bill that was spent on management staff had increased from about 20% to 40% in recent years, which was unsustainable. He had been given the choice of keeping his current salary level but become responsible for five stores, accept re-employment in the new role of Store Leader at significantly reduced salary, or accept reasonably generous redundancy terms. He'd chosen the latter, as had most if not all of his fellow managers.He also revealed something very interesting about the Post Office side, which form such an important side of Smith's presence these days, but he swore me to secrecy on it: suffice to say, the P.O. presence virtually assures WHS's continued existence.

Where a PO is inside a WHS I can understand that.

As a customer the last time I bought was when I had a gift card to use. Anything I need is far cheaper in Wilko, Poundland or from eBay.

 

[xotGD]

"US retailer Gap could close all of its own UK stores, putting thousands of jobs at risk, as it mulls shifting its operations to franchise-only in Europe." (BBC)

 

[SteveM70]

"US retailer Gap could close all of its own UK stores, putting thousands of jobs at risk, as it mulls shifting its operations to franchise-only in Europe." (BBC)

About 80% of Gap’s European stores are already franchises. Not sure what proportion of the UK ones though, but maybe not quite as bad as the headline makes out

 

[FQTV]

About 80% of Gap’s European stores are already franchises. Not sure what proportion of the UK ones though, but maybe not quite as bad as the headline makes out

I think that a lot of the announcements that we’re seeing, and will continue to see, will mask a far more complex situation than those making them might like to suggest.....

Gap is actually quite unusual in being a US retailer that’s been reasonably committed to the UK market; most US retailers struggle here as the retail environment is so different to their home one.

However, Gap is facing challenges globally, with sales down 7% between 2018 and 2019. In Europe (they don’t publish UK only figures), Gap is down just over 16% sales-wise between 2017 & 2019. They closed almost five times as many stores as they opened last year.

H&M, Zara, Mango and others have stolen market share worldwide, as have solidly successful operators such as Next in the UK.

Indeed, as the latter’s CEO says, what we’re seeing at the moment is a lot of acceleration of existing trends and directions of travel.

In this case, then, it could mean the conversion to a fully-franchised model, or a complete withdrawal from the market in (say) two years, rather than the (say) five that it might otherwise have taken.

And, more generally, especially for publicly traded companies, the Churchillian strategy of never letting a good crisis go to waste is also one to be mindful of.

As an example, while the pub trade is lobbying hard for increased government support, and Tim Martin of Wetherspoon is adding his weight to that lobbying, pointing to his company’s latest results as stark ‘proof’ of the current situation, it should be noted that the company has shunted almost £60m of ‘exceptionals’ (non-continuing/one-off costs) into its accounts.

I would do the same in their position, and some of them may be directly related to Covid, but I suspect that a lot aren’t. What they do do, however, is suppress profit, suppress tax liability and are used to lend that weight to the lobbying for more taxpayer support.

 

[SteveM70]

Clothing retail is tricky enough in normal circumstances - space intensive retail, loads of stock because every SKU is in half a dozen sizes, generally longer lead time supply chains so a risk of being over/under stocked depending on the whims of fashion and the turn of the weather.

Going online only makes a lot of sense, as it solves some of these problems, especially for retailers aimed at the younger end of the market where shopping online has become the norm. The only downside is having to accept a high returns rate (typically 30%) and the cost of reprocessing returned clothes, but there are specialist companies out there that can do this.

 

[xotGD]

BBC:

Pizza Express will cut 1,300 more jobs across its 370 UK restaurants after sales dipped amid more coronavirus cases and restrictions.
The losses come weeks after the firm said it would cut 1,100 jobs and close 73 restaurants.
No further restaurants will close, it says, with this volley of losses split across the remaining sites.

 

[S&CLER]

After my experiences I wouldn't be sorry to see the Vue cinema chain close down. I had £82.45 worth of advance tickets booked for live relays from Covent Garden and the New York Met when the lockdown was announced. I rang Vue's customer service number (quite hard to find) and after 15 minutes on hold gave my details and was assured that my credit card would be refunded soon. That was in late March, and I still haven't had any money back. Today, the first day our local Vue reopened, I tried to get a refund over the counter, but was told that was not possible. I've just tried the customer service number again, held for 5 minutes, and then gave up. I won't be going again, and hope the scoundrels go bankrupt.

In fairness to Vue I should say that I finally got the refund I had asked for in March, after 8 months of waiting, a few days ago when it was credited to my credit card. I'd given up hope, so it was a nice surprise.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Further grim news for retail world -

3,500 jobs are going at Sainsburys/Argos as the store tries to implement ways of reducing their overheads.

John Lewis is shredding a further 1,500 jobs - a company which appears to be on a knife edge. I would not be surprised if they go completely in 2021.

Clarks shoes are axing 700 jobs as they reduce their independant shops and push shoe sales through the Internet and other retailers who sell their products.

CJ

 

[DelayRepay]

3,500 jobs are going at Sainsburys/Argos as the store tries to implement ways of reducing their overheads.

John Lewis is shredding a further 1,500 jobs - a company which appears to be on a knife edge. I would not be surprised if they go completely in 2021.

I think Argos is mainly linked to the closure of stand alone stores, now that they are in Sainsburys. I hope many of these people can be re-deployed into other roles in Argos or Sainsburys.

I don't think we'll see the end of John Lewis, but I can see more store closures. Maybe they will go in a similar direction to Argos - putting a selection of JL goods in Waitrose stores and focusing more on click and collect for the rest of the range.

 

[birchesgreen]

John Lewis has been propped up by Waitrose for ages.

 

[37424]

Well its not great news for me and my fellow Argos employees that's for sure, We expected some shops to close but this goes way beyond what was expected, It looks like only hub stores like mine which run the home delivery operation will be left but looking at the numbers it looks like even some of those will close. I guess I may find out this afternoon. While they will reduce costs they will also loose sales in my view because a lot of the bigger Argos stores still get quite good walk in sales, but the in Sainsburys stores are very small and don't carry much stock. I would describe it as the destruction of Argos

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think Argos is mainly linked to the closure of stand alone stores, now that they are in Sainsburys. I hope many of these people can be re-deployed into other roles in Argos or Sainsburys.

I don't think we'll see the end of John Lewis, but I can see more store closures. Maybe they will go in a similar direction to Argos - putting a selection of JL goods in Waitrose stores and focusing more on click and collect for the rest of the range.

I suspect Argos's future as an independant retailer is in doubt. There is a stand-alone Argos near me which I am surprised has not yet closed.

The era for catalogue retailers is over with in the new digit age. Index went in 2005 and all the mail order firms like Kays or Great Universal have long gone.

Does anyone remember how it used to work? You bought something from the catalogue, then you could pay weekly installments over a year. My late Nan was a Freeman's rep in the late 1980s - she used to collect everyone's money each week.

I think the Argos brand will only continue in Sainsburys stores as a 'click & collect' point, unless they push for big Internet revenue in a Amazon type scenario.

CJ

 

[Gemz91]

I think Argos is mainly linked to the closure of stand alone stores, now that they are in Sainsburys. I hope many of these people can be re-deployed into other roles in Argos or Sainsburys.

I don't think we'll see the end of John Lewis, but I can see more store closures. Maybe they will go in a similar direction to Argos - putting a selection of JL goods in Waitrose stores and focusing more on click and collect for the rest of the range.

Our local Waitrose already has a small range range of Lewis' goods in store. Its only house items, but I could see it growing to especially baby clothes and essential clothes. Not having a local John Lewis' it is quite good, but not sure how popular it is.

Well its not great news for me and my fellow Argos employees that's for sure, We expected some shops to close but this goes way beyond what was expected, It looks like only hub stores like mine which run the home delivery operation will be left but looking at the numbers it looks like even some of those will close. I guess I may find out this afternoon. While they will reduce costs they will also loose sales in my view because a lot of the bigger Argos stores still get quite good walk in sales, but the in Sainsburys stores are very small and don't carry much stock. I would describe it as the destruction of Argos

Hope its positive news for you this afternoon. I quite like Argos same day delivery. I know Amazon does this is larger a few larger cities, but not where I am. The fact I can buy something and have it delivered the same day I see is good great. Handy if the kettle or the likes breaks and I need a new one.

 

[DavidGrain]

I have read an article that says that Subway in America is not expected to survive much longer as they are cutting back on their outlets. I have occasionally used Subway both in this country and in Europe for a quick lunch at a not too bad a price so would be sorry to see them go as franchisees have invested a lot of their own money in the shops.

 

[Typhoon]

I think Argos is mainly linked to the closure of stand alone stores, now that they are in Sainsburys. I hope many of these people can be re-deployed into other roles in Argos or Sainsburys.

I can only speak for my local (stand-alone) Argos stores but the biggest savings I can see them making is on rent for retail space, a couple are enormous caverns from the days when there was a fair amount on display which nowadays makes them look deserted even when they are moderately busy. The number of jobs lost in closing them would appear to minimal, there is rarely more than one person on tills (and once, no-one) and no more than two on Collection Point duty.

Well its not great news for me and my fellow Argos employees that's for sure, We expected some shops to close but this goes way beyond what was expected, It looks like only hub stores like mine which run the home delivery operation will be left but looking at the numbers it looks like even some of those will close. I guess I may find out this afternoon. While they will reduce costs they will also loose sales in my view because a lot of the bigger Argos stores still get quite good walk in sales, but the in Sainsburys stores are very small and don't carry much stock.

Like others, I hope you are OK. Your point about Sainsburys stores is well made. My nearest ones are entirely click and collect, even one two bus journeys away in a warehouse like shed only opened a few years ago has very little room allocated to Argos.

The other loss is the fresh food counters at Sainsburys so prepacked only, another reason not to go there. Good to see Morrison's still hanging on.