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Conductor / Guard Dispatch in Europe

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158801

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In the U.K. the guard will “give two” on the buzzer to tell the driver that they are ready to depart.

In Belgium I’ve seen the guard use a key in a device on the platform and then quickly board the train.

Is the bell/buzzer unique to the UK? What systems are in use in other countries .
 
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rg177

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Czech Republic and Slovakia involve waving a circular coloured disc in various directions.

I've seen a circular motion and up/down/left/right (like tracing the shape of a + symbol).

Guard will have a local door keyed in most of the time - sometimes the door will stay open as the train leaves so they can watch the platform (usually on hauled stock).
 

DanielB

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At NS in the Netherlands a green lamp, indicating all doors are closed and locked, in the cab is used to signal the driver that the train is ready to depart. Most private operators are DOO, though there might still be a guard on those trains for service and revenue protection.

You might sometimes see a guard operate a box in the platform with a key, but that's usually to operate a level crossing at short distance after the station and won't signal the driver. (Though technically it does as without operating that box the signal will never switch to a green aspect)
 

gysev

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In Belgium I’ve seen the guard use a key in a device on the platform and then quickly board the train.

This device (AVG-IOT) is not in use any more. The guard will now close all the doors and then give the 'right away' with his/her smartwatch.
 

bahnause

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in Switzerland, the normal process is done with lineside signals (dying out) or with an app on the train crew's cell phone which sends an text message to the CAB-Radio.
 

dutchflyer

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And sometimes/some lines in DE=Germany, which I just left 3 mins ago, conductor/zugbegleiter does nothing: s/he/them may even just continue checking tickets or whatever they are doing. Many lines are made fit for indeed OMO.
In some more informal settings, tiny trains, if they still have a guard/conductor then-may just join driver in cab and tell it al OK ready to go.
 

rg177

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This device (AVG-IOT) is not in use any more. The guard will now close all the doors and then give the 'right away' with his/her smartwatch.
I can recall the old method causing some issues a number of years ago. The conductor would watch the platform from an open door and I witnessed passengers trying to launch themselves at it even after the train had started moving.

I think that was abolished before the movement away from AVG-IOT entirely.
 

duesselmartin

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And sometimes/some lines in DE=Germany, which I just left 3 mins ago, conductor/zugbegleiter does nothing: s/he/them may even just continue checking tickets or whatever they are doing. Many lines are made fit for indeed OMO.
In some more informal settings, tiny trains, if they still have a guard/conductor then-may just join driver in cab and tell it al OK ready to go.
Dispatching is only needed if the train exceeds a certain lenght, if the driver has not got a full view of the train lenght. That is why you dont see them in short units.
 

rvdborgt

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I can recall the old method causing some issues a number of years ago. The conductor would watch the platform from an open door and I witnessed passengers trying to launch themselves at it even after the train had started moving.

I think that was abolished before the movement away from AVG-IOT entirely.
Correct. For a few years now, they have been closing the last door immediately after boarding the train, so they didn't stand in an open door anymore, waiting for the train to start moving. That was dangerous indeed for everyone involved.
 

trainJam

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And sometimes/some lines in DE=Germany, which I just left 3 mins ago, conductor/zugbegleiter does nothing: s/he/them may even just continue checking tickets or whatever they are doing. Many lines are made fit for indeed OMO.
In some more informal settings, tiny trains, if they still have a guard/conductor then-may just join driver in cab and tell it al OK ready to go.
Are the conductors more like a on-board supervisor or manager or ticket examiner or are they dispatch trained as well?
 

stadler

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On most DMUs and EMUs in, Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, they use a rather interesting method. The train comes to a stop and the Driver opens the doors. Then when the train is ready to leave the Guard blows a whistle and waves either a flag or a baton towards the cab (which the Driver sees by leaning out of the window or looking at a mirror or looking at a CCTV monitor depending on the stock) and then immediately gets back in to the train. Then the Driver closes all of the doors and departs. So the Guard despatches the train but the Driver closes all of the doors (including their local door) when they receive the Guard gives them the flag or baton signal.

I think most locomotive hauled stock and high speed stock in Mainland Europe follow the same method that NS in the Netherlands use on all of their trains. This is where the Driver opens the doors and then the Guard closes the doors with a key and then the Driver departs as soon as the doors are closed. But there is no bell or buzzer or anything like that.

On most trains i have seen in Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania (and some in Germany too) they have a Guard onboard who seems to be guaranteed on all trains but they have no involvement in despatch or even looking out at stops. So this is quite similar to the Guards on Greater Anglia and the OBMs on Southeastern who are safety critical and guaranteed to be onboard but are not involved in despatch.

On most trains (at least the Elektrichka trains) in Russia and Belarus and other ex Soviet countries they seem to have multiple people in the cab and one of them sort of acts as a Guard to look out the train when it arrives and departs. There always seems to be at least two people in the cab and often three or four people and one of these is basically a Guard who checks the platform. In addition they also have multiple ticket inspectors (up to six per train on busy services) checking and selling tickets.

Ireland is quite similar to the UK. But all of their trains except cross border are DOO. On the Enterprise services they use ten bell despatch (just like the Cross Country 220s and 221s and Southern 377s use) on the normal De Dietrich sets or use flag despatch when a 22000 or 29000 set replaces them. On the once a day in each direction Newry stopping service the regular Guard normally rides with the Driver in the cab on the Dundalk to Newry section. This is not allowed in the UK any more but it is still permitted in Ireland for Guards to ride in the cab. Northern Ireland still has Guards on all trains and uses the Driver open and Guard close method and the Guard gives two on the buzzer on all 3000 and 4000 trains.

Is there anywhere else in Europe outside of the UK that uses the traditional British method where the Guard opens the doors? I know some places like in the Netherlands the Guard closes the doors but does any country have trains where the Guard opens them too? Also does anywhere else in Europe use bells or buzzers to signal the Driver to depart? Or are we the only European country with bells and buzzers?

Also how do the 373s and 374s work? Do these work in the British style or Mainland European style? Do the Guards open and close the doors on these? Do they have bells where the Guard gives two on the bell to the Driver to depart?

The only other places in the world that i can think of that use the traditional British method (or something similar) is Australia and New Zealand and Canada and USA where most trains have Guards responsible for opening and closing doors and signalling the Driver to depart.

On the Wellington Suburban Trains (Metlink) in New Zealand they use the classic British method where the Guard opens the local door and steps out to check the platform and then opens the other doors. The when the train is ready to leave they close all the other doors then close their local door and use a buzzer to signal to the driver. On the Auckland Suburban Trains they are the Driver Open Guard Close method. They did attempt to go DOO in Auckland a few years ago but that does not seem to have happened.

Sydney and New South Wales in Australia also seem to use the classic British method of the Guard opening and closing the doors. I believe they also have a bell to signal the Driver to depart. Although health and safety does not seem to have reached Australia as the Guard leaves the cab door open and leans out as the train approaches and departs. A very dangerous method that the UK has not allowed for decades.

Brisbane a d Queensland use a different method where the Driver opens the doors. Then when the train is ready to leave the Guard gives two bells and the Driver closes the doors and departs. But there is no bells after closing the doors so the Driver just departs as soon as the doors are closed. Like in Sydney and New South Wales they use the rather dangerous method of keeping the cab door open and leaning out as the train arrives and departs.

Canada and USA still have Guards on the vast majority of their trains and i believe they are fully responsible for opening and closing the doors. I think they also use the British method of opening their local door first and then checking the platform. I think they have some sort of bell or signal they use to signal the driver to depart.
 
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rvdborgt

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Is there anywhere else in Europe outside of the UK that uses the traditional British method where the Guard opens the doors? I know some places like in the Netherlands the Guard closes the doors but does any country have trains where the Guard opens them too?
This happens a lot in Belgium, although on some stock (e.g. the MW41 DMUs), the driver opens the doors.
 

stadler

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This happens a lot in Belgium, although on some stock (e.g. the MW41 DMUs), the driver opens the doors.
Ah that is interesting to hear. So there are some other trains in Mainland Europe where the Guard opens the doors. Which classes of trains in Belgium does the Guard open the doors on? I presume it is just the locomotive hauled ones? Or are there some DMUs and EMUs too? Also do they use the British method of only opening their local door first and stepping on to the platform before opening the other doors?
 

gysev

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Ah that is interesting to hear. So there are some other trains in Mainland Europe where the Guard opens the doors. Which classes of trains in Belgium does the Guard open the doors on? I presume it is just the locomotive hauled ones? Or are there some DMUs and EMUs too? Also do they use the British method of only opening their local door first and stepping on to the platform before opening the other doors?
Indeed, the guard unlocks the doors of locomotive hauled trains. However, unlike the UK, this is done at the moment the train comes to a stop. He doesn't have to check first that the platform is still there.
 

JonasB

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The traditional method in Sweden is that the guard will signal "departure" by waving their hand in a circle (holding a green light if it's dark). The procedure can be seen in the video below.


On modern EMUs, it is often simplified.
 

eldomtom2

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If we're speaking internationally rather than just about Europe, most railways in Japan have the guard signal the driver via bell or buzzer when the train is ready to depart, though some railways operate a system where the driver can depart as soon as the door light turns on.
 

JKP

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in Switzerland, the normal process is done with lineside signals (dying out) or with an app on the train crew's cell phone which sends an text message to the CAB-Radio.
When I travelled on the Appenzell narrow gauge, the guard waved a piece of red card in the direction of the driver for departure.
 

317666

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On the New York Subway, the conductor gives two on the buzzer to the driver, but only at the start of the train's journey - at all other stations the driver just goes when all doors are closed. Anyone know why this is?
 

Route115?

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Presumably they trust their interlock to detect hands, etc, trapped in the door, and they have always done it that way. The two buzzes at the first station may indicate that the conductor is present. (I believe that there are very few crew changes en route on the New York subway, but am not an expert.)
 

Geeves

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In regards to Japan again some of the Metro services have guards even where the platforms now all seem to be screen doors. Its the regular method where the guard both opens and closes the doors, although they don't always seem to give a signal to the driver

The local trains in Spain seem to be DOO so far as I have seen

Auckland suburban train seem to be that with the new stock driver opens but guard closes.

In Melbourne the Metro has been DOO for years and recently it seems that the longer distance Vline trains are now DOO with the guard reduced to ticket checking on the Vlocity units
 
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godfreycomplex

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In Melbourne the Metro has been DOO for years and recently it seems that the longer distance Vline trains are now DOO with the guard reduced to ticket checking on the Vlocity units
VLocity units are dispatched (German style) by the guard giving the driver instructions by radio. The driver then operates the doors to this instruction, as seen in this training video at 24:03

Pretty sure the loco hauled trains have some sort of guard panel. No idea on the Sprinters
The traditional method in Sweden is that the guard will signal "departure" by waving their hand in a circle (holding a green light if it's dark). The procedure can be seen in the video below.

That procedure is pure camp and thank you for bringing it to the forum’s attention
 
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