Confirmed : HS2 West Midlands-Manchester line to be scrapped and replaced with other projects.

[Bantamzen]

So now that there is a big bag of money for Network North projects, who do I see about getting the super-duper-shiny-shiny new line from Manchester to Bradford extended up here to Baildon. Its only another 5 miles or so, and its a nice place to put a super-duper-shiny-happy-clapper station in...

 

[mandub]

Who shall we vote for next time then....?

Whoever is best placed in your constituency to beat the Tory candidate

 

[The Planner]

So that section is still going ahead?

Yes

 

[Sorcerer]

I'm not surprised that the speculation has turned out to be true with the Manchester phase being axed, and I'm not too hopeful for the other projects proposed since Sunak's party is likely to be voted out by then which means they don't need to see through this commitment even if they are still likely to promote it as a reason to vote Conservative in the name of "levelling up". I think it's about time that Labour take a proper stance now and commit to proper investment in the country's transport infrastructure, including (but not limited to) restoring as much of HS2 as reasonably possible and possibly even shaking up the system so that long-term projects like this don't get dragged down by nonsensical politics. For one of the most powerful countries and largest economies in the world, it is pitiful that we do not have proper management on increasingly outdated infrastructure.

 

[SteveM70]

So now that there is a big bag of money for Network North projects, who do I see about getting the super-duper-shiny-shiny new line from Manchester to Bradford extended up here to Baildon. Its only another 5 miles or so, and its a nice place to put a super-duper-shiny-happy-clapper station in...

Have you got a Tory MP? Is it a marginal constituency? If you can answer yes to both questions, you could win a share of our 36 billion pound price pot!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

£12 billion to improve Liverpool-Manchester links is an incredible sum.
Presumably it's the budgetted cost of the Liverpool-Airport link to HS2, and possibly the Airport-Piccadilly tunnel.
Electrifying the CLC route is one obvious answer (Trafford Park-Allerton) but that would only be a fraction of £12B.
Turning Chat Moss into a proper fast line would be nice but costly.
You've still got the conundrums in Manchester though, Castlefield and all, and the congestion through Victoria.

 

[Bantamzen]

Have you got a Tory MP? Is it a marginal constituency? If you can answer yes to both questions, you could win a share of our 36 billion pound price pot!

Funnily enough...

Philip Davies MP

Latest news and campaigns from Philip Davies, Member of Parliament for the Shipley constituency

www.philip-davies.org.uk

Just not marginal sadly...

 

[MPW]

As someone with relevant professional expertise, I disagree that the evidence shows that induced traffic is of sufficient magnitude to mean that road expansion can never reduce congestion. And public spending per passenger km is many times higher on rail than road. Externalities may justify this in some circumstances but not in all cases, and still less with EVs.

As someone with no relevant professional expertise in any form of transport, I certainly won't try to counter your argument! Is your expertise from road building rather than rail industry? I think that gets to a different point, that these sectors are so separated that experts in each field are not necessarily looking at the same studies. I get confirmation bias given I am much more likely to read in detail and get enthusiastic about rail vs road, so those are the arguments I see more often. I wonder if your comment on spending per passenger km is based on up-front cost or also considers the NPV over life of the asset, and if that is from the perspective of the government/treasury or road/transit user?

After a quick google I found articles in favour of each argument, but one article cut through all of it and pointed out that cycling is by far the cheapest. So I will start training to be able to cycle from London to the North faster than car or train! All the money I save from not driving or paying for transit will be reinvested into pubs across North Wales, Liverpool, Greater Manchester, and Yorkshire (including Tavistock).

 

[Luke McDonnell]

Do anyone think we could see protests over the cancellation from those in favour of HS2, maybe organised by the likes of Andy Burnham?

It may not achieve much, but I remember there was a massive campaign from the Manchester Evening News to reinstate the Metrolink extensions, when that was cancelled by the Labour government or the funding was refused and look where we are now.

Maybe a massive campaign from the local press in the north, as well as protests it might not do anything with the Tories still in charge, but if we get a Labour government, it might put pressure on them?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So that section is still going ahead?

Yes. It's the only thing that makes HS2 work at a national level.
OOC-Euston is also going ahead (when they have sorted out an acceptable cost for Euston station).

 

[stuu]

So glad there will be a new railway between Wellington and Cullompton. Having a choice of routes will be so much better

 

[Watto1990]

Who shall we vote for next time then....?

If you're casting your vote for HS2 to be completed then frankly there is nobody to vote for.

 

[Sentinel]

Isn’t it now appropriate for the Hitachi train build contract to be re-tendered and proposals put forward for Pendolino Mk2 with tilt and 180mph running?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn’t it now appropriate for the Hitachi train build contract to be re-tendered and proposals put forward for Pendolino Mk2 with tilt and 180mph running?

Tilt is dead (the WCML is already being reprofiled in places for 125mph non-tilt running with the 805s and 807s), but I'd expect to see 400km/h units (why slow it down when you've got less of it to gain?) but possibly of different lengths, i.e. between 250 and 300m long for better classic compatibility.

 

[Sentinel]

So that section is still going ahead?

It’s part of Phase 1 and has already cut a swathe through the countryside around Lichfield….

 

[David Burrows]

Not only that, but it appears that Ashington, Felton, Alnwick, and Amble are now in Scotland.

And none of them are actually on the A1, even if some of them were many years ago.

 

[fandroid]

Yes. It's the only thing that makes HS2 work at a national level.
OOC-Euston is also going ahead (when they have sorted out an acceptable cost for Euston station).

Euston should be a lot easier now that so few extra trains are going to reach Leeds and Manchester. Lop off a few more platforms?

However, doing yet another redesign is a grand way of throwing more money into the fire

 

[cuccir]

The "North East" section of the gov's list explicitly mentions Leamside reopening:

Reopening stations: Communities in the North East will be reconnected, including a new station at Ferryhill, Co Durham. The Leamside line, closed in 1964, will also be reopened.

It's hard to think what services could use the Leamside line if it were reopened. The issue being that any services would still hit capacity issues south of Ferryhill, so there's no new long distance services that could be added.

It could form part of the T&W Metro, though you think that would be mentioned if it that were the intention. It would be a long way to run a Metro service to reopen all of it, but if you only open as far as Fencehouses then it could work perhaps.

A Newcastle - Middlesbrough Northern service could come onto it, using the Stillington branch. That would fit with reopening Ferryhill. Such a service would be used, but it would be a lot of money spent to reopen a line to run a service that would between Teesside and Tyneside not serve anywhere very conveniently. You could have stations at:

* Washington, but not in the town centre
* Fencehouses or Shiney Row, but the settlements here are quite low density and distributed so there's no location which is all that convenient
* Belmont or Sherburn, though really Durham would be better served by having more services at its main station

You could reroute the TPE service along here but then who serves Chester-le-Street? I don't suppose CrossCountry will fancy it. And that seems no good for Durham which could go from one station to two stations 4-5 miles apart but with minimal extra services. And this wouldn't help congestion on the ECML because the TPE services would rejoin it south of Ferryhill.

I guess you could make some of these through services from Morpeth or the Metrocentre of some such in order to develop regional connections a bit more, though I doubt there is huge demand here.

It's not that enticing really.

 

[fandroid]

As the total money saved is going into better links in the Midlands and North, I wonder what Rishi has up his sleeve for improving capacity between Birmingham and Manchester?

 

[Arkeeos]

As the total money saved is going into better links in the Midlands and North, I wonder what Rishi has up his sleeve for improving capacity between Birmingham and Manchester?

Ahhhhh, absolutely nothing.

 

[Sentinel]

As the total money saved is going into better links in the Midlands and North, I wonder what Rishi has up his sleeve for improving capacity between Birmingham and Manchester?

Transferring in some of the Voyagers that are coming off / are off lease would be a good start. Moving from 4/5 to 8/9 car trains would increase capacity by 100% within a year. 2 such trains an hour would seem more than adequate given current loadings on the present half-hourly service.
Apparently the DfT has blocked such transfers to date apart from 5 sets to replace XC’s retiring HSTs.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

How would you get trains from Manchester to Bradford in 30 minutes without major tunneling? Guess have to wait and see.

Simple. Build a branch off NPR along the old Spen Valley route from Ravensthorpe to Low Moor. The alignment still exists as the Spen Valley Greenway and has not been built on. It even has an extant bridge over the M62.

And there is no need for a new station unless you build a new link from Interchange to Forster Square.

 

[DDB]

The replacement list is out. Some are the money could be spent on schemes like these and some are named schemes to be funded. However I suspect some poor civil servant was given 10 mins to knock this out so I suspect there will be changes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/find-out-about-every-new-transport-project-in-your-region
It is too long to provide meaningful summary but it is a government website to is hopefully suitable for screen readers.

 

[AverageJoe]

Is there even an issue with the links between Manchester and Liverpool?

Motorway works fine and the trains are fast enough.

The money would be best spent by ending this dispute and getting the existing railway working properly in the north.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder where this leaves the proposed ECML upgrade to improve services to Leeds/York/Newcastle which was mooted after the eastern leg of HS2 was cancelled?
Probably in the bin as well.

 

[Sentinel]

Do anyone think we could see protests over the cancellation from those in favour of HS2 maybe organised by the likes of Andy Burnham may not achieve much but I remember there was a massive campaign from the Manchester Evening News to reinstate the Metrolink extensions when that was cancelled by the Labour government or the funding was refused and look where we are now maybe a massive campaign from the local press in the north as well as protests might not do anything with the Tories still in charge but if we get a Labour government it might put pressure on them

I doubt there’d be much support from Wilmslow and Stockport residents who were going to loose their direct service to London….

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Laws enable a railway to be built. They don't require it to be built.

Does not that depend upon the wording of the relevant Act of Parliament?

Wasn't the Festiniog Railway saved from being dismantled because the act which authorised its construction was written in such a way that a further Act of Parliament would be required to abandon it?

 

[RPI]

The replacement list is out. Some are the money could be spent on schemes like these and some are named schemes to be funded. However I suspect some poor civil servant was given 10 mins to knock this out so I suspect there will be changes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/find-out-about-every-new-transport-project-in-your-region
It is too long to provide meaningful summary but it is a government website to is hopefully suitable for screen readers.

So according to that list, Tavistock is reopening?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there even an issue with the links between Manchester and Liverpool?

Motorway works fine and the trains are fast enough.

While some capacity improvements have come about e.g. 4-tracking through Huyton, there is too much of a conflict between local and long distance services which significantly limits frequency and causes things to be rather unpunctual.

 

[A0wen]

risking being burnt as a heretic: we do need to build and maintain roads. It is good to see things like the A1 mentioned but i am surprised the A66 was excluded.

Aren't the works to dual the remainder of the A66 west of the A1 already approved and in progress though ?

The route in detail - National Highways

A number of sections of the A66 has been upgraded or bypassed since the 1970’s. We now want to upgrade the remaining single carriageway sections to provide a safe and reliable journey between Penrith and Scotch Corner.

nationalhighways.co.uk

National Highways have taken over what was the Llama Cafe on the A66 at Brougham near Penrith for their project office.