Confused about Friday off peak out of St. Pancras

[jthjth]

I’m confused about the validity of off peak return tickets out of St Pancras on a Friday evening.

In more detail, I’m looking at an off peak return (not super off peak), out from Leicester 23 May at 1400, return Friday from St Pancras Friday 24th May at around 1700. I thought the Friday evening off peak restriction had been removed. However if I put these times into the EMR ticket site the last available train is 1635. This is backed up by a link to https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/7e/

However I queried this with EMR customer services who stated:
“I can confirm that your Off Peak ticket travelling out of London on Friday will be valid all day from 08:47 in the morning so yes you will be able to travel on all services around 17:00.”

I‘d be grateful for any advice that might clear up my confusion.

 

[Watershed]

It's easy to understand your confusion as EMR's customer services seem to be taking a stab in the dark at the answer and are, predictably, getting it completely wrong. The easing of Friday restrictions has also been far from uniform across operators:

• Most Avanti-set Off-Peak fares no longer have restrictions to/from Euston on Fridays. They don't set any Super Off-Peak fares, except to the likes of Milton Keynes, where they aren't the main fare setter and simply mirror LNR's restrictions (which continue to apply on Fridays).
• Most LNER-set Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak fares no longer have restrictions to/from Kings Cross on Fridays.
• TfL Oyster and contactless PAYG off-peak fares and caps now apply all day on Fridays. But Travelcards and other paper tickets still have the same restrictions as usual.

Other operators, including EMR, haven't really changed anything in terms of walk-up fares or restrictions on Fridays. Therefore the EMR journey planner is correct that the last valid return train in the afternoon with an Off-Peak Return from Leicester to London is 16:35, and after that it's the 19:02.

 

[SargeNpton]

It's easy to understand your confusion as EMR's customer services seem to be taking a stab in the dark at the answer and are, predictably, getting it completely wrong. The easing of Friday restrictions has also been far from uniform across operators:

• Most - but not all - Avanti-set Off-Peak fares no longer have restrictions on Fridays. They don't set any Super Off-Peak fares, except to the likes of Milton Keynes, where they aren't the main fare setter and simply mirror LNR's restrictions (which continue to apply on Fridays).
• Most - but not all - LNER-set Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak fares no longer have restrictions on Fridays.
• TfL Oyster and contactless PAYG off-peak fares and caps now apply all day on Fridays. But Travelcards and other paper tickets still have the same restrictions as usual.

Other operators, including EMR, haven't really changed anything in terms of walk-up fares or restrictions on Fridays. Therefore the EMR journey planner is correct that the last valid return train in the afternoon with an Off-Peak Return from Leicester to London is 16:35, and after that it's the 19:02.

That's at odds with what is on the EMR website at: https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co....-right-ticket/off-peak-super-off-peak-tickets

Travelling Off-Peak from London Monday to Friday​

Going out of London – Off-Peak tickets​

• Off-Peak tickets cover you from 08:47 – 16:35, and from 18:47 onwards.
• On Fridays, your outward ticket from London is valid all day from 08:47
• Super Off-Peak tickets cover you from 10:05 – 15:34, and from 18:47 onwards
• Between 16:35 and 18:47, Anytime tickets are the only valid ticket. They cover you at all other times, too.

 

[Watershed]

That's at odds with what is on the EMR website at: https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co....-right-ticket/off-peak-super-off-peak-tickets

Travelling Off-Peak from London Monday to Friday​

Going out of London – Off-Peak tickets​

• Off-Peak tickets cover you from 08:47 – 16:35, and from 18:47 onwards.
• On Fridays, your outward ticket from London is valid all day from 08:47
• Super Off-Peak tickets cover you from 10:05 – 15:34, and from 18:47 onwards
• Between 16:35 and 18:47, Anytime tickets are the only valid ticket. They cover you at all other times, too.

Ah, well then the cause of the confusion becomes clear: the Friday evening 'easement' only applies to the outward portion of Off-Peak tickets - in other words, if you're travelling from London to Nottingham and back, for example. It doesn't apply to the OP's case, as they would be travelling on the return portion of a ticket from Leicester.

EMR really aren't helping themselves in trying to apply different restrictions to the same ticket type, to/from the same station, based on whether it's the outward or return portion!

 

[SargeNpton]

Ah, well then the cause of the confusion becomes clear: the Friday evening 'easement' only applies to the outward portion of Off-Peak tickets - in other words, if you're travelling from London to Nottingham and back, for example. It doesn't apply to the OP's case, as they would be travelling on the return portion of a ticket from Leicester.

EMR really aren't helping themselves in trying to apply different restrictions to the same ticket type, to/from the same station, based on whether it's the outward or return portion!

I disagree that the easement is only outward journeys starting from St Pancras. The extract I showed is preceded by (and part of):

Off-Peak Train Times to London​

If you want to reduce your expenses on your trip to London, consider traveling during Off-Peak hours. These hours usually fall outside of rush hour when the crowds are reduced and you may be able to get a lower-priced ticket.

Don't forget to check the specific Off-Peak times and any available discounts, when booking. Best times to travel to and from London for Off-Peak train tickets is simple with our guide.

 

[Watershed]

I disagree that the easement is only outward journeys starting from St Pancras. The extract I showed is preceded by (and part of):

Off-Peak Train Times to London​

If you want to reduce your expenses on your trip to London, consider traveling during Off-Peak hours. These hours usually fall outside of rush hour when the crowds are reduced and you may be able to get a lower-priced ticket.

Don't forget to check the specific Off-Peak times and any available discounts, when booking. Best times to travel to and from London for Off-Peak train tickets is simple with our guide.

I'm not sure what you're trying to refer to? But both the image explaining the restrictions, as well as the actual wording and electronic data of the time restrictions, show that this 'easement' only applies on the outward portion of an Off-Peak ticket (i.e. one issued from London):

Restriction code 9J (which applies to EMR-set Off-Peak tickets from London) says (emphasis added):

Outward Travel
Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London St Pancras International after 04:29 and before 08:46 or after 16:35 and before 18:46. On Fridays the Outward portion of an Off-Peak ticket is valid anytime from 08:47 from London St Pancras International;

By contrast, restriction code 7E (which applies to EMR-set Off-Peak tickets to London) says:

Return Travel
Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:26 or after 15:00 and before 18:45;
• London St Pancras International after 04:29 and before 08:46 or after 16:36 and before 18:46

 

[jthjth]

Thanks, that explains things. Never thought going to the Chelsea Flower Show would be so complicated….