Confusion over collecting advance tickets

[arb]

I've just made another call to Virgin, where I got to speak to a senior manager, and was again told that there was nothing they could do to the booking that would allow me to collect the ticket from Cambridge.

They said they could update the booking so that it was marked as "to be collected from London Euston" instead of from Cambridge, thus mitigating my worry that the staff at Euston might say that I was in the wrong station to collect it. Although I guessed that this might reduce the chances of getting the ticket at Cambridge via the advice in this thread, it seemed to me to be the safest option, so I went for it. I have the name of the person who offered to do this, and insisted that they sent me written confirmation of this agreement.

However, they continued to insist throughout the call that when I bought the tickets online, the agreement I'd entered into with them was to collect the ticket with my original card, and that if I no longer had that card, they were under no obligation to provide me with the tickets. In fact, they claimed to be doing me a massive favour by offering me the chance to collect the tickets from London. I decided to ask the hypothetical question of how that would help if the tickets had been from Cambridge instead of London, and was told that in those circumstances, the only option available to me would be to buy new tickets, and that I wouldn't be entitled to a refund on the originals.

So - the overall summary is that my problem is sorted in this instance, but I've been left with a very bad experience of the whole ticket buying and collection process. In fact, it seems to me that the only sensible way for a customer to mitigate against the risk of change/loss/theft of card is to go to the station and collect the tickets immediately after booking them. Which seems to negate the whole point of having online booking if you then have to immediately go to the station anyway...

Thanks for the all the advice on this thread. I will probably make another attempt to the collect the tickets from Cambridge before the day of travel and see what happens, in spite of what I've been told by Virgin.

 

[quarella]

This does sound like the kind of scenario where a game of 'Call Centre Bingo' could work wonders. where if you don't get the answer you want from the first person you speak to, you don't try to escalate it, you simply put the phone down and try again. Chances are after two or three attempts you will find a properly trained operative that listens to you and understands what you want instead of making up their own rules.

Just because it is not the answer you want to hear does not mean it is incorrect. As for making up their own rules: From the Virgin Trains website-

Collecting tickets at the station: For many bookings we allow you to collect tickets from a range of stations. You must allow sufficient time to collect your tickets before boarding the train. You must have your ticket collection reference, and (unless stated otherwise) the credit/debit card used to make the purchase as identification. You should note any special collection instructions given during the booking process, for example the station opening hours.

-
(My bold)

So being told that the card the booking was made with is required is not, as you put it, making up their own rules.
Should Virgin be expected to sort out a problem created by a third party which goes outside of their terms and conditions? It is not the fault of the OP either. Now it should not be beyond the capability of the various systems to be programmed to recognise that until the expiry of the original card the replacement can be used. This is an issue that the Banks should have foreseen and identified a procedure to deal with.

 

[AlterEgo]

Arb - you have a PM.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This is an issue that the Banks should have foreseen and identified a procedure to deal with.

I agree that the banks are partly culpable in these situations, as the 'old' card, although no longer valid for purchases, would still be valid for the identification purposes of collecting pre-paid tickets.

The advice given by banks is along the lines of "please destroy your old card immediately" whereas it could more usefull be "please destroy your old card as soon as you have completed any transactions which you have begun using that card". [the phrasing could be better!].

I've had two of my own cards 'updated' in the past year and didn't destroy the old ones until after collecting tickets, which they did as expected.

I'm sure that the OP will collect their tickets as planned and hope that they come back here to tell us.

 

[wintonian]

You must have your ticket collection reference, and (unless stated otherwise) the credit/debit card used to make the purchase as identification

I don't know if this is the case but to me this seems like an unfair contract term and it is judged to be so it then becomes irrelevant and ceases to remain part of the contract.

 

[34D]

I agree that the banks are partly culpable in these situations, as the 'old' card, although no longer valid for purchases, would still be valid for the identification purposes of collecting pre-paid tickets.

The advice given by banks is along the lines of "please destroy your old card immediately" whereas it could more usefull be "please destroy your old card as soon as you have completed any transactions which you have begun using that card". [the phrasing could be better!].

I've had two of my own cards 'updated' in the past year and didn't destroy the old ones until after collecting tickets, which they did as expected.

I'm sure that the OP will collect their tickets as planned and hope that they come back here to tell us.

Is it just me who never destroys old cards, and keeps them?

I've got a dual branded switch / maestro somewhere - in the hope that one day it might be valuable! Yes I am insane.

One question for the op: - was the PAN (that is to say, the long number across the middle) the same on old and new cards?

The advice is all very well, but let's remember that cards get lost and stolen all the time, which is of course unforeseen.

 

[jopsuk]

Presumably the new card does have the same number? usually when a new card is issued the number stays the same; however security features such as the CVV code on the back, and obv the validity dates, change. Surely they should be issue to issue the tickets to the same card number?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....However, they continued to insist throughout the call that when I bought the tickets online, the agreement I'd entered into with them was to collect the ticket with my original card, and that if I no longer had that card, they were under no obligation to provide me with the tickets. In fact, they claimed to be doing me a massive favour by offering me the chance to collect the tickets from London....

To be fair, it is in the terms of the contract which you should be reading before agreeing to buy the ticket. I can understand how it would be annoying or inconvenient though.

....I decided to ask the hypothetical question of how that would help if the tickets had been from Cambridge instead of London, and was told that in those circumstances, the only option available to me would be to buy new tickets, and that I wouldn't be entitled to a refund on the originals....

Certainly you should buy new tickets to get you to London in that scenario, but that is more because of the NRCoC (and potentially penalty fares schemes) than anything anti-passenger. Some guards have been known to accept booking references, but it is not something you are entitled to.

....So - the overall summary is that my problem is sorted in this instance, but I've been left with a very bad experience of the whole ticket buying and collection process. In fact, it seems to me that the only sensible way for a customer to mitigate against the risk of change/loss/theft of card is to go to the station and collect the tickets immediately after booking them. Which seems to negate the whole point of having online booking if you then have to immediately go to the station anyway....

I think it is the minority of cases that this affects, banks don't change a person's cards that often, so you could say it is unfortunate timing. It's not like Virgin Trains have done anything wrong to cause this situation.

When my bank sends me a new card I have to activate it before the old card is no longer usable (unless it expires), which would give me opportunity to collect the tickets if I needed to.

 

[arb]

....However, they continued to insist throughout the call that when I bought the tickets online, the agreement I'd entered into with them was to collect the ticket with my original card, and that if I no longer had that card, they were under no obligation to provide me with the tickets. In fact, they claimed to be doing me a massive favour by offering me the chance to collect the tickets from London....

To be fair, it is in the terms of the contract which you should be reading before agreeing to buy the ticket. I can understand how it would be annoying or inconvenient though.

OK, I've re-read all the Terms and Conditions on their website, and I accept that this is the case. Knowing that has just convinced me even more that I don't want to be booking tickets online unless I can immediately collect them, just in case the card does get lost/stolen/broken/replaced etc.

In the FAQs that came with the booking confirmation, it says:

Q: What happens if I don't have the card I booked with/or a new card?
A: You will need to phone our After Sales Support team before arriving at the station on 0844 556 5650 (Please note that calls to this number will cost 10p per minute from a BT landline. Calls from other operators may vary.) quoting your booking reference.

Now, whilst I'll accept that this doesn't explicitly say what they'll do when you call them, it does to me give the impression that they'll do something constructive to help (doubly so because it matches the advice I was given by staff at the station). And whilst in this case they have helped, they've openly said to me that there wouldn't be anything constructive they could do to help if my ticket had been from Cambridge, not London. Whilst I can't accuse this entry in the FAQ of being technically wrong, I would argue that it's misleading if they're not actually able to do anything helpful in that situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably the new card does have the same number? usually when a new card is issued the number stays the same; however security features such as the CVV code on the back, and obv the validity dates, change. Surely they should be issue to issue the tickets to the same card number?

It's got a different card number, a different security code, but the same expiry date.

 

[tony_mac]

I would argue that this is a pretty onerous term, the activation of which is often outside the control of the customer, and that if they intend to rely on it to deny their part of the contract then they should make it explicitly and obviously clear at the point of sale, and not hidden in the small print.

But anyway, it is extremely poor customer service - which seems to be what happens when monpolies are handed over to private companies.

 

[mbh]

Looks Like Northern are able to cope with it.

6. I have got a new debit/credit card since I booked my train tickets. Can I still collect my tickets?

If your payment card has been replaced since you purchased your tickets, and you chose to collect the tickets from a self-service ticket machine, please contact our online sales team before your journey.

http://www.northernrail.org/travel/tickets/faqs#collection

Same on MyTrainTicket

and on RedSpottedHanky

I no longer have the credit/debit used to purchase my ticket as it has been lost or stolen.

In the event that you lose the credit/debit card used to purchase your tickets, or it is stolen, we will be unable to issue you with your tickets at the station. You should contact Web Support by telephone on 0800 377 7748 (freephone) or by email for information regarding the best course of action.

Shame Virgin Can't do it

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Shame Virgin Can't do it

"can't" or "won't"?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Shame Virgin Can't do it

If you look at the FAQs you quote and those from Virgin quoted by arb, you will actually see they are very similar, neither say they will sort the situation out, just that you should call them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Looks Like Northern are able to cope with it.

6. I have got a new debit/credit card since I booked my train tickets. Can I still collect my tickets?

If your payment card has been replaced since you purchased your tickets, and you chose to collect the tickets from a self-service ticket machine, please contact our online sales team before your journey.

Yes, but what will Northern suggest?

The same?

 

[arb]

I tried calling into Cambridge station again today, and was able to collect the tickets. The staff member I was speaking to looked decidedly unsure about what he was doing, but didn't question my story and agreed to look through all the paperwork I'd brought in with me, and was then quite happy to print off the tickets.

Notably, he didn't mind that Virgin wouldn't update the booking with my new credit card number (which is what I was initially told I needed to get done by the first staff member I spoke to about this problem last week).

So, in the end, not an issue. I'm still amazed that there isn't a better "official" way of dealing with this problem, though.

 

[londonbridge]

I agree that the banks are partly culpable in these situations, as the 'old' card, although no longer valid for purchases, would still be valid for the identification purposes of collecting pre-paid tickets.

The advice given by banks is along the lines of "please destroy your old card immediately" whereas it could more usefull be "please destroy your old card as soon as you have completed any transactions which you have begun using that card". [the phrasing could be better!].

I've had two of my own cards 'updated' in the past year and didn't destroy the old ones until after collecting tickets, which they did as expected.

I'm sure that the OP will collect their tickets as planned and hope that they come back here to tell us.

I thought when your card was replaced that the 'old' card is still valid until either a)its expiry date or b)you make a transaction with the 'new' card,whichever comes first. My credit card has an expiry date of 01/12,I received the new one yesterday,I have not yet activated or made a transaction with it,so until I do so I would expect my old card to continue working.

 

[island]

Depends on your bank. The one I used to work for would invalidate the old card 30 days after the new one was produced.