Connections on seperate advance tickets

[YorkshireBear]

I am assuming there is no protection at all for missing connections say between LNER and Eurostar or between Eurostar and TGV trains in Paris.

Choosing between point to point tickets and interrail and point to point is cheaper but obviously interrail gives more flexibility when missing connections so just wondering if anyone has any experience. Only got three connections in the whole trip the only two that are concerning me are mentioned above. Got 2 hours in London between trains and 1 hour 40 in Paris.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not quite that bad. As long as your National Rail leg is a ticket which is to/from London International (CIV) then you will be covered in the event of a delay. If you LNER arrives late then you will be put onto the next Eurostar or vice versa. Any ticket office should be able to retail them (and you can check that they're available from your local station by going to BR Fares and looking for fare to LNE) but you may need to gently guide them to the right option (I've had them foxed by the fact it generates an itinerary to walk from Kings Cross to St Pancras for instance) or, if they're on the ball, they'll ask to see your E* booking confirmation.

On the continent it's a bit less generous but some operators are part of the HOTNAT scheme which should cover you:

“Hop on the next available train” (HOTNAT)​

Hop on the next available train » (HOTNAT) allows travelers to take the next high-speed service leaving from the same station as originally planned when a delay on or cancellation of a preceding Railteam member’s high-speed service prevents them from making their originally-planned connection.* This service is free of charge and is subject to the following conditions : the connection that was missed must be between two high-speed trains of the Railteam Alliance. HOTNAT only applies at the station at which the passenger originally planned to change trains and in cases of train delays and train cancellations. The approval of HOTNAT is subject to the available capacity on board each train. Seats are not guaranteed.

Services - Railteam

www.railteam.eu

But broadly yes, if you're on split tickets and miss a connection then you're out of luck and will need to buy a new ticket outside of the above situations.

 

[AdamWW]

But broadly yes, if you're on split tickets and miss a connection then you're out of luck and will need to buy a new ticket outside of the above situations.

I can't speak from personal experience, but according to the Man in Seat 61, even without CIV tickets you'll generally be OK with a UK missed connection to/from a Eurostar.

And - depending on when you're travelling and where from/to, a CIV ticket might be more expensive than a regular ticket to London.

 

[ainsworth74]

I can't speak from personal experience, but according to the Man in Seat 61, even without CIV tickets you'll generally be OK with a UK missed connection to/from a Eurostar.

And - depending on when you're travelling and where from/to, a CIV ticket might be more expensive than a regular ticket to London.

I personally wouldn't risk it as I value the piece of mind but, of course, everyone has their own risk appetite at the end of that day! But yes I have also heard similar regarding missed connections whilst not holding a CIV ticket anecdotally.

Personally I can't recall ever coming across a situation travelling to/from Darlington where the CIV ticket was more expensive than regular ticket. Indeed I believe the intention, certainly with the walk-up versions, is that they offer a significant saving (certainly in comparison to a convention Anytime Single which is the closest comparator as they also have no time restrictions). That's why you need to be able to present a Eurostar booking confirmation, otherwise everyone would buy them!

 

[YorkshireBear]

We are getting a TGV out of Paris so I assume that comes under the HOTNAT? It suggested so when I looked at the links above.

Did not know about the Eurostar thing, that is very interesting... Noted as the Leeds to London legs are the only ones not booked yet due to not being able to book far in advance anymore. Is there anywhere you can check the price of CIV tickets?

My main concern now will be strikes unfortunately.... Suppose I'll just have to wait and see and keep an eye on flights from Manchester to Paris just in case.

 

[AdamWW]

Personally I can't recall ever coming across a situation travelling to/from Darlington where the CIV ticket was more expensive than regular ticket. Indeed I believe the intention, certainly with the walk-up versions, is that they offer a significant saving (certainly in comparison to a convention Anytime Single which is the closest comparator as they also have no time restrictions). That's why you need to be able to present a Eurostar booking confirmation, otherwise everyone would buy them!

I thought I'd seen a case where CIV tickets were similarly priced to the Anytime and Off Peak regular tickets but not the Super Off Peak.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it, but I don't consider that I'm saving money buy buying a more expensive ticket with fewer restrictions if I'm travelling at a time when none of the restrictions apply anyway.

Also, while I believe that holiday insurance tends not to be all that useful when it comes to missing trains, I think that missing a connection to/from Eurostar at the UK end will often be covered just as missing a flight out or a connection due to a late incoming flight will be (assuming you've been reasonable about connection times etc.)

In any case it seems to me a rather poor situation that the 'correct' ticket is not publicised and non trivial to obtain even if you know about it. Or, for that matter, that Eurostar has given up offering through tickets in the UK.

 

[30907]

Did not know about the Eurostar thing, that is very interesting... Noted as the Leeds to London legs are the only ones not booked yet due to not being able to book far in advance anymore. Is there anywhere you can check the price of CIV tickets?

The Advance price structure according to BRFares.com is the same as for Advances to KGX, so a test booking might give an idea; the flexible single ticket is half the price of the (Super) Offpeak Return, so is your upper limit.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Advance price structure according to BRFares.com is the same as for Advances to KGX, so a test booking might give an idea; the flexible single ticket is half the price of the (Super) Offpeak Return, so is your upper limit.

Ah okay thank you. Do you know if CIV is only available at ticket offices?

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah okay thank you. Do you know if CIV is only available at ticket offices?

To my knowledge it's only available at ticket offices now. RailEasy used to be able to sell them but I think just sells normal tickets to London Terminals (which don't have CIV protection) now so it's a ticket office job.

In any case it seems to me a rather poor situation that the 'correct' ticket is not publicised and non trivial to obtain even if you know about it. Or, for that matter, that Eurostar has given up offering through tickets in the UK.

I think the reality is that there's no-one who cares enough to make it happen. Eurostar are quite happy filling their trains by people booking through their website and for the TOCs it's a niche market and they probably see it as a) a revenue risk as people without Eurostar bookings might chance it and b) a loss maker as the tickets are priced below what they'd sell for someone making journeys to London normally in many cases.

I thought I'd seen a case where CIV tickets were similarly priced to the Anytime and Off Peak regular tickets but not the Super Off Peak.

Perhaps, it's not a subject I've studied in any great detail as I've only had to purchase them for trips to/from Darlington. Where the 1st AP price was very competitive (£50/60 from memory with railcard, this was for trips in 2018/19) compared to the public rate 1st AP. Looking at it today the cheapest normal flexible single* is the Super-Off Peak single priced at £147.50 compared to the Euro Standard Single of £74.50.

I'm sure there may well be cases where the CIV ticket is a similar price to or perhaps more than a normal ticket to London but, again, it will depend on your risk appetite. Some people may prefer to save £20 and buy a normal ticket to London because everything will probably be fine. Personally I'm happy to spend a bit extra (though, in my experience that's never happened, it's always been cheaper) to ensure that I have a contractual entitlement to onward travel without arguing.

Also, while I believe that holiday insurance tends not to be all that useful when it comes to missing trains, I think that missing a connection to/from Eurostar at the UK end will often be covered just as missing a flight out or a connection due to a late incoming flight will be (assuming you've been reasonable about connection times etc.)

Personally I'd rather have a ticket that entitled me to onward travel rather than having to fall back on travel insurance and be out of pocket whilst that's sorting itself out

*There is cheaper Super-Off Peak Single available at £74.30 but that can only be sold as part of a return journey.

 

[30907]

Ah okay thank you. Do you know if CIV is only available at ticket offices?

Yes. You used to have to show your ES booking reference to get one - it isn't valid for travel otherwise.
IIRC they are valid one day before/after the ES ticket, not just on the day.

Shipley BO commented recently that they sell quite a few.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes. You used to have to show your ES booking reference to get one - it isn't valid for travel otherwise.
IIRC they are valid one day before/after the ES ticket, not just on the day.

Shipley BO commented recently that they sell quite a few.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be simpler if anyone could buy the ticket but you had to show evidence of being entitled to it when actually using it?

Or have we reached the point where we rely on ticket barriers rather than inspections on trains even for "intercity" routes?

Personally I'd rather have a ticket that entitled me to onward travel rather than having to fall back on travel insurance and be out of pocket whilst that's sorting itself out

Indeed there's no right answer. And there is a also difference between (say) paying £25 more for peace of mind for a solo traveller and paying £100 for a family trip.

I suspect that most people are blissfully ignorant of the existance of CIV tickets and wouldn't give the matter a second thought. They get the peace of mind for free! (Until caught out).