Conscription.

[SteveP29]

We need to get serious about tackling the corruption where it exists in the procurement process. It should not take decades to design, build and introduce new equipment which, when it does arrive, does so over fantastically over budget

This.
And usually by the time it does arrive, it's outdated technology

 

[DC1989]

Certainly our military is in a sorry sorry state and is not ready for the global conflict/s that will occur within the next 10-20 years.

Pax Americana is over and we're in for a bumpy ride

 

[uglymonkey]

"Rather more seriously, I think we should be wondering if there is going to be trouble way down south. If things go badly for Milei, as things usually do go in Argentina, I can see him using the Galtieri gambit and invading the Falklands. This time we won’t be able to assemble a fleet and will be left with the choice of taking HMS Victory out of dock or the Torpoint ferry."

They don't have a hope of invading - even making an attempt. The islands are reinforced now and "Forewarned is forearmed". We would know by intel ,if they even "twitched" in making any preparations. Totally different situation now to 1982.

 

[Scotrail314209]

It’s definitely getting me worried. Although it’s mostly scaremongering and bluster (people on TikTok are having a field day with it), it just seems like too much is going on now for there not to be a conflict.

Most of the stories are likely words being misinterpreted, but the fact that all these leaders sound super grim about it doesn’t help.

 

[Giugiaro]

It's easy to be scared in times like this, especially when so many nerve-wracking conflicts are popping up or being highly hinted at, and the media just jumping into the frenzy.

It has been said already: that 2024 is a huge election year worldwide, and everyone is trying to get their share of the cake.
The invasion of Ukraine, the war in the Gaza Strip, and the looming possibility of war in Taiwan and the whole of the Middle East are providing the military sector with reasons to bargain/threaten.

One thing is for sure. As said in the "Russia invades Ukraine" thread, we are two years into the conflict and Europe still hasn't managed to increase its military-industrial output, not only to replace and reinforce the weapons we've supplied to the Ukrainian defense effort but also to modernize and increase our stockpile, just in case the United States bails out or is distracted with war in a different front.

It's obvious that military experts and majors from the armed forces are going to put pressure on the people and politicians to try and get our act together "before it's too late".

Also, bear in mind that the war is fought both on the frontlines and at home. The civilians, especially the ones with high skills, are going to be doing their "business as usual", only with the extra spice of "contributing to the war effort".
By that time, unless things turn to the very worst, you should be worrying less about "Am I going to be put in the frontlines" and more about "Am I OK with developing stuff that will intentionally kill people?"

 

[DarloRich]

Rather more seriously, I think we should be wondering if there is going to be trouble way down south. If things go badly for Milei, as things usually do go in Argentina, I can see him using the Galtieri gambit and invading the Falklands. This time we won’t be able to assemble a fleet and will be left with the choice of taking HMS Victory out of dock or the Torpoint ferry.

He hasn't got the forces or the ships or the planes to do it. it is also hard to mount an invasion without amphibious ships to move and land your men. Their Super Etendard aircraft are old and don't work, they have about 6 helicopters and some upgraded F4 Skyhawks of which about 6 fly.

I think we can take them. We have 4 typhoons based on the Falklands and I am sure one of our attack submarines would make easy work of the three ships of the Argentine navy that still float. if the threat levels go up I am sure one of these boats will head south ready to cause bother.

There is an old latin phrase which seems to date back to the Roman era: "Si vis pacem, para bellum" which translates to "If you want peace, prepare for war". It remains astue advice.

Correct - we haven't and have sat back for too long. Even the existence of NATO is at risk if Trump gets back in. Putin must be laughing his little you know what off!

We need to get serious about tackling the corruption where it exists in the procurement process

I am not sure it is corruption. I suspect it is a standard governmental issue with specification & requirements being poorly defined/subject to constant change

 

[birchesgreen]

"Rather more seriously, I think we should be wondering if there is going to be trouble way down south. If things go badly for Milei, as things usually do go in Argentina, I can see him using the Galtieri gambit and invading the Falklands. This time we won’t be able to assemble a fleet and will be left with the choice of taking HMS Victory out of dock or the Torpoint ferry."

They don't have a hope of invading - even making an attempt. The islands are reinforced now and "Forewarned is forearmed". We would know by intel ,if they even "twitched" in making any preparations. Totally different situation now to 1982.

Plus the "Things going badly for Milei" ship has already sailed, Argentina inflation rate is 211% (the highest in the world!), the peso is collapsing and there are mass strikes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Many Gen Z-ders are tech-savvy and like war games. Maybe they could fly drones.....

 

[Lost property]

Many Gen Z-ders are tech-savvy and like war games. Maybe they could fly drones.....

In all probability they would be the perfect operators, however, one small problem.

They would be devoid of home comforts and the Army's idea of "welcome " and subsequent field conditions may come as an unwelcome shock to them.

There's no doubt the world is very unstable at present, but, the problem with conflicts / wars is that they tend to be escalated, in one sense, by the rhetoric / hyperbole / "jingoism" of MSM. No surprise to read the front page headlines of the Times / Telegraph giving prominence to the "citizens army " speech.

 

[Thirteen]

There's a lot of scaremongering going around by the military big wigs and the media are lapping it up.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Thanks my lovelies. You’ve managed to settle my nerves quite a bit. I think I need to turn of the news and stay off social media!

Laura x

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Thanks my lovelies. You’ve managed to settle my nerves quite a bit. I think I need to turn of the news and stay off social media!

Laura x

Yes, I've just made a resolution to stop clicking on the Daily Express stories about conscription, Ukraine, nuclear warheads etc. The more you click on them the more you get sent.
You get far more erudite and thoughtful analysis of the geopolitical situation on RailUKforums anyway.

 

[najaB]

It’s definitely getting me worried. Although it’s mostly scaremongering and bluster (people on TikTok are having a field day with it), it just seems like too much is going on now for there not to be a conflict.

As has been the case since the Napoleonic wars, at least. The only difference is that the 24/7 news cycle didn't exist back then.

 

[Bevan Price]

If a real war involving Russia were to develop, a citizen army would be pointless. In less than an hour, much of UK and Europe and America would be a radioactive wasteland with 90+% dead, and the remainder struggling to survive in a world largely devoid of adequate housing, food, fuel & other services.

 

[52290]

If a real war involving Russia were to develop, a citizen army would be pointless. In less than an hour, much of UK and Europe and America would be a radioactive wasteland with 90+% dead, and the remainder struggling to survive in a world largely devoid of adequate housing, food, fuel & other services.

Khrushchev is reported to have said during the cold war that in a nuclear war the living will envy the dead.

 

[Mogster]

The same comments by adults about the younger generation have been recorded for at least 2500 years it seems.

25 Quotes in 2,500 Years Proving We Always Blame the Younger Generation

This is not new.

historyhustle.com

Long before Tide Pods, we were blaming “millennials” in some form or another for ruining everything we hold sacred, and having no morals or intelligence. But somehow those hooligans grow up to say the same thing. And over and over it goes. Here are 25 quotes, going back to ancient Athens, that prove it:

Churchill was keen to blame the younger generation for early British failures in North Africa. His generation had shown more backbone on the Somme etc…

You can mobalize and train (to a degree) a lot of people in a short time it seems. 1939 the US Army was tiny, a couple of hundred thousand men, barely in the top 20 globally. By 1945 they had 12m men in uniform across the Pacific, Mediterranean and Western European theatres.

 

[ainsworth74]

You can mobalize and train (to a degree) a lot of people in a short time it seems. 1939 the US Army was tiny, a couple of hundred thousand men, barely in the top 20 globally. By 1945 they had 12m men in uniform across the Pacific, Mediterranean and Western European theatres.

They also had the industrial base to equip, clothe and feed them. Something which we here in Europe do not have and the US only has the vestigial remains of.

 

[21C101]

On one level it is quite amusing, but the co ordinated nature of these "announcements" in several countries and the press actually taking it seriously is quite sinister.
For two years those same military shills have been telling anyone willing to listen essentially that the Russian Army is usless and Ukraines tanks will be in Moscow by Christmas
Now suddenly talk of major war and mass conscription.
Something tells me that intelligence reports along the lines of Ukraine is doomed are afoot and that western governments are seriously considering declaring war on Russia, because the financial and geopolitical result of Russia defeating and conquering Ukraine are not pretty.

 

[702]

Nothing to worry about at all tbh, but regarding recruitment for the armed forces more broadly, since the turn of the millennium there have been a steady string of disasters, most noticeably in Iraq and Afghanistan, but if anyone cared to look, Libya didn't go well, Syria is still a mess, we've helped the Saudis turn Yemen into a humanitarian disaster zone, and are now assisting an apartheid state in committing genocide. Not exactly an inspiring track record!

 

[Thirteen]

I suspect if I was being cynical that the General probably wants the MOD budget to be increased.

 

[Mag_seven]

During the Falklands conflict in 1982 there were rumours that young men were being denied passports on application as call up was a possibility. How true this was I don't know.

 

[najaB]

Now suddenly talk of major war and mass conscription.
Something tells me that intelligence reports along the lines of Ukraine is doomed are afoot and that western governments are seriously considering declaring war on Russia...

No need to read any further than that.

While the stockpiles are down considerably from their Cold War peaks, Russia still controls enough nuclear weapons (plus the means to deploy them) to make any attack a fool's errand.

 

[Lost property]

If a real war involving Russia were to develop, a citizen army would be pointless. In less than an hour, much of UK and Europe and America would be a radioactive wasteland with 90+% dead, and the remainder struggling to survive in a world largely devoid of adequate housing, food, fuel & other services.

Thanks to the Tory party, the UK population are already ahead in training in this respect.

Some of you may wish to stock up in Fullers earth however.

 

[sor]

I don’t think people were different. They had dreams and aspirations. But they also had the idea of serving the country and being a guardian toward it to protect it for the generations to come.

Every Gen Z-er I know proudly despise our country, continually ridicule it and seem to celebrate whenever there’s any bad news or negative story toward it. I also find them incredibly selfish.

I don't accept the "every genZ" bit (though it might depend on what "despise" means - do I "despise" because I think there are huge problems with the way its run and that other countries do it better?), but I would point out that millennials, certainly those on the younger end like myself, and Z have had the ladder pulled up on many aspects of life and there is no real sign of improvement. Is it surprising that there may be reluctance to fight for a country that hasn't been very gracious to them?

This won't have been helped by the never ending war on terror. While a war in Europe or even within British territory would be a more "justified" use of military power, it's going to be a hard sell.

 

[spyinthesky]

Thanks to the Tory party, the UK population are already ahead in training in this respect.

Some of you may wish to stock up in Fullers earth however.

No use for Fullers Earth in a Nuclear situation, liquid chemical attacks only but I’m sure we can find a dodgy government contract to supply it!

 

[DarloRich]

Something tells me that intelligence reports along the lines of Ukraine is doomed are afoot and that western governments are seriously considering declaring war on Russia

How do you come to that sort of concussion? Could you explain it a bit? I would say that "deterrence" is what makes this impossible on both sides. It is why we are arming ( badly) Ukraine and not sending in the Marines so to speak.

I suspect if I was being cynical that the General probably wants the MOD budget to be increased.

That is all this is - the quotes make that clear! It is an outgoing senior military person saying the army ( and by extension all of the armed forces) are in a $hit state and we need to spend more on them. He isn't wrong.

he also said he WASNT talking about conscription. The forces do not want conscripts. They do want to be able to take more volunteers.

 

[Mogster]

They also had the industrial base to equip, clothe and feed them. Something which we here in Europe do not have and the US only has the vestigial remains of.

In WW2 the UK fielded 3 million men at peak I think. I’m not sure if that includes troops from British commonwealth and dominions that were mobilised. 30% of supplies for ETO deployed US forces were provided by the UK.

It’s amazing what can be done with 50% of UK GDP…

 

[Lost property]

No use for Fullers Earth in a Nuclear situation, liquid chemical attacks only but I’m sure we can find a dodgy government contract to supply it!

Oh I know, but, for those suffering sphincter muscle spasms on here, and elsewhere, just adding the BC after N should make them go wibble...but I agree, sales of dodgy NBC kit c/o equally dodgy suppliers (this assumes a Tory Gov't is, heaven forbid, in power at the time) would no doubt emerge.

Personally, I'll stick to a mantra I'm sure you were familiar with in the event of the instant sunshine arriving " stick your head between your legs and kiss your xxxx goodbye "

 

[najaB]

Personally, I'll stick to a mantra I'm sure you were familiar with in the event of the instant sunshine arriving " stick your head between your legs and kiss your xxxx goodbye "

I've always been of the opinion that you need to find the largest, closest military target and head towards it!

 

[ainsworth74]

In WW2 the UK fielded 3 million men at peak I think. I’m not sure if that includes troops from British commonwealth and dominions that were mobilised. 30% of supplies for ETO deployed US forces were provided by the UK.

It’s amazing what can be done with 50% of UK GDP…

Oh absolutely and I don't doubt that if we switched to a wartime economy again incredible things could be done with 30, 40 or 50% of 2024 UK GDP. But, it would take a lot longer for that money and effort to yield fruit. The UK of the 1930s and 1940s had a lot of industrial capacity that could be switched quickly to produce war material. Take the famous example of the de Havilland Mosquito many of which had major structural components created by furniture firms who were able to switch from making wardrobes to aircraft. We don't have the base industrial capacity to switch anymore so it would have to be created from scratch. We hardly even have primary steel production anymore with Port Talbot about to close their blast furnaces and Scunthorpe just clinging on.

Which is why I keep banging on about the UK and Europe needing to tend to our defence industrial base again. We don't necessarily need to be spending at the levels that an actual war would require but it seems clear that we've all allowed things to slide to far and if we actually did need to defend ourselves and our allies it would prove extremely difficult. Just supporting Ukraine has strained the capacity of Europe to meet the demand for artillery shells for instance and two years in we don't appear to be making especially great strides in addressing that problem.