Conservative North Yorkshire mayoral candidate leaflet - dubious rail pledges?

[yorksrob]

You can't do that without lopping off the bit of North Yorkshire between the two areas. And, as I said, York kept blowing hot and cold over the matter. Better to leave them where they are, politically; I doubt fares from York to Leeds would come down to a per-mile ration similar to those within West Yorkshire.

I don't think there'd be any problem including Church Fenton, Tadcaster etc into the loop. In Fact I'd be inclined to include Selby as well if it chose.

The fact that politicians have been blowing hot and cold shows that its an active idea - perhaps its an idea whose time has finally come.

That said, it would be fairly pointless without sorting out the ridiculous fares.

Trouble is, York isn't anywhere near the urban area that would normally make sense to be considered the 'metro' area. There's about 15 miles of pure countryside between York and the edge of Leeds.

Neither are Walsden and Marsden. It's less about continuous urban area and more about economic hinterland. And York and West Yorkshire cooperate politically already as part of the Leeds City Region.

Personally, I'd argue that there should be a combined travel authority, that brings all the Yorkshire's together rather than expanding Metro with fares across the whole area.

There's so many overlap areas, Barnsley to Leeds or Sheffield, Hull to anywhere etc that it doesn't make sense it all being split up. Otherwise it's just going to be a Metro goes to York, it should go to Harrogate, Metro goes to Harrogate it should go to Skipton. Cheap fares at York, why aren't we part of it in Selby. If Selby are in why aren't we getting this in Malton and so on.

Actually yes, a Network Yorkshire would be a great idea (I might actually get a decent service to Whitby).

It would need a Government that actually believed in devolution, rather than micro-managing from the centre.

 

[Acfb]

I meant more economically rather than rail journeys, sorry wasn't clear.

Economically they're very very different places and the purpose of the Mayor isn't just for transport. The whole of the North East should be really together since currently there's places like Newton Aycliffe and Darlington which very connected currently in two different areas. The former even has a Darlington post code.

You could probably make a similar argument for the whole of Yorkshire aswell really. That's for another thread though.

Yes, my cousin/uncle live in Aycliffe Village but at least with Darlington you can argue it's both connected to Durham/Newcastle and Teesside.
That's a reason why I wonder if Houchen might win though as the Lab candidate is Darlington based.

This concept of devolution is oddest to do with High Peak being under the remit of the East Midlands mayor though when the vast majority of High Peak having a Stockport postcode and looking towards Stockport, Manchester and Macclesfield in transport/economic terms plus Hope Valley for Sheffield.

There are some connections with Derbyshire Dales/Derby and Chesterfield in county terms but the problem with this new mayor role is surely it'll be more biased towards Derby, Nottingham etc.

In terms of rail is even more complicated in the east Midlands and lack of through transport through the middle of Derbyshire so you had MEMRAP meetings but hard to see them coming to anything as they are quite vague on specifics.

 

[mpthomson]

I have looked at the Conservative’s North Yorkshire mayoral candidate and am displeased with his transport pledges including

Scarborough is presumably from York but the poor wording could leave it open to attack. I feel like they have gone from vague vocabulary and typically worded messages to outright lies and misrepresentations. He would have had little to no say on at least 2 of these projects!
I’m not saying I’m surprised. Just disappointed and frustrated

View attachment 154561View attachment 154560The pledges in the leaflet

Haxby Station isn't a definite to open yet, planning and funding still aren't nailed on, so thats a reasonable enough pledge to put into a manifesto. Though, as many will know, it's not re-opening, it's actually a new station built outside the village and in completely the wrong place in reality. They're a sensible and realistic set of pledges, to be honest.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The MP in my home city used to claim credit for anything that happened in the city - new bypass, improved train service, whatever - even though all of these projects had been planned long before he got elected. Indeed, his basking in other people's glory became such a joke that he was satirised as having been personally responsible for the local football team's league promotion and cup successes.

 

[YorkRailFan]

The MP in my home city used to claim credit for anything that happened in the city - new bypass, improved train service, whatever - even though all of these projects had been planned long before he got elected. Indeed, his basking in other people's glory became such a joke that he was satirised as having been personally responsible for the local football team's league promotion and cup successes.

Was he a Tory MP?

 

[YorksLad12]

I don't think there'd be any problem including Church Fenton, Tadcaster etc into the loop. In Fact I'd be inclined to include Selby as well if it chose.

The fact that politicians have been blowing hot and cold shows that its an active idea - perhaps its an idea whose time has finally come.

That said, it would be fairly pointless without sorting out the ridiculous fares.

Church Fenton and Tadcaster (and Selby) are in North Yorkshire. You'd have had to add the whole of North Yorkshire county to the area to allow York to join with WY, or have some form of legal instrument. The Combined Authority areas have to have a contiguous border, city regions could be more loosely defined, using Travel to Work-style area definitions. Barnsley, Harrogate, Selby, etc. districts were part of the Leeds City Region Local Enterprise Partnership. But LEPs have been knocked on the head.

Neither are Walsden and Marsden. It's less about continuous urban area and more about economic hinterland. And York and West Yorkshire cooperate politically already as part of the Leeds City Region.

Walsden and Marsden are in West Yorkshire. Same Local Transport Authority. Although... Walsden has been in Yorkshire less than 50 years (we're nearing the anniversary). And there is no LEP any more.

Actually yes, a Network Yorkshire would be a great idea (I might actually get a decent service to Whitby).

Drifting off topic somewhat, but if there was a rail equivalent of Bus Service Improvement Plans you could try a pooled bid for a Yorkshire-wide railcard, offering 25% off (say) for 30 to 59 year-olds, everyone else having some form of railcard. The difference would have to come from the local transport authorities; South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, York & North Yorkshire (all combined authorities) and the East Riding (and Hull). Only WY seems to get cash these days, so a bit of a non-starter. And it would have to be the modern counties (sorry, Middlesborough).

 

[yorksrob]

Church Fenton and Tadcaster (and Selby) are in North Yorkshire. You'd have had to add the whole of North Yorkshire county to the area to allow York to join with WY, or have some form of legal instrument. The Combined Authority areas have to have a contiguous border, city regions could be more loosely defined, using Travel to Work-style area definitions. Barnsley, Harrogate, Selby, etc. districts were part of the Leeds City Region Local Enterprise Partnership. But LEPs have been knocked on the head.


Walsden and Marsden are in West Yorkshire. Same Local Transport Authority. Although... Walsden has been in Yorkshire less than 50 years (we're nearing the anniversary). And there is no LEP any more.

There wouldn't be any need to include the whole of North Yorkshire to include York and the bits inbetween.

Infact, Metro already has some sort of an arrangement with Harrogate, so there is the ability to transcend transport boundaries where the will is there.

Drifting off topic somewhat, but if there was a rail equivalent of Bus Service Improvement Plans you could try a pooled bid for a Yorkshire-wide railcard, offering 25% off (say) for 30 to 59 year-olds, everyone else having some form of railcard. The difference would have to come from the local transport authorities; South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, York & North Yorkshire (all combined authorities) and the East Riding (and Hull). Only WY seems to get cash these days, so a bit of a non-starter. And it would have to be the modern counties (sorry, Middlesborough).

Again, there's no reason why Middlesbrough couldn't be included by arrangement.

 

[SteveM70]

There wouldn't be any need to include the whole of North Yorkshire to include York and the bits inbetween.

Infact, Metro already has some sort of an arrangement with Harrogate, so there is the ability to transcend transport boundaries where the will is there.

Is there already something similar with skipton?

 

[yorksrob]

Is there already something similar with skipton?

I believe there is, yes.

 

[YorksLad12]

Infact, Metro already has some sort of an arrangement with Harrogate, so there is the ability to transcend transport boundaries where the will is there.

Is there already something similar with skipton?

Those are the Zone 6 (Harrogate) and Zone 7 (Skipton) MCard add-ons, which are only valid on trains. Not the same as the MCard products available in West Yorkshire.

 

[yorksrob]

Those are the Zone 6 (Harrogate) and Zone 7 (Skipton) MCard add-ons, which are only valid on trains. Not the same as the MCard products available in West Yorkshire.

Indeed they're not, however they illustrate that arrangements can be made that transcend borders. York and Selby would fit very well into the Metro system.

 

[Ken H]

Indeed they're not, however they illustrate that arrangements can be made that transcend borders. York and Selby would fit very well into the Metro system.

How would that work politically? York people elect councillors to York council. Selby and Tadcaster elect North Yorkshire. The Metro system is part of the West Yorkshire combined authority. So 'fitting in' would mean delegating transport to an authority with no political control, And I assume a precept for the combined authority.

 

[Snex]

Yes, my cousin/uncle live in Aycliffe Village but at least with Darlington you can argue it's both connected to Durham/Newcastle and Teesside.
That's a reason why I wonder if Houchen might win though as the Lab candidate is Darlington based.

This concept of devolution is oddest to do with High Peak being under the remit of the East Midlands mayor though when the vast majority of High Peak having a Stockport postcode and looking towards Stockport, Manchester and Macclesfield in transport/economic terms plus Hope Valley for Sheffield.

There are some connections with Derbyshire Dales/Derby and Chesterfield in county terms but the problem with this new mayor role is surely it'll be more biased towards Derby, Nottingham etc.

In terms of rail is even more complicated in the east Midlands and lack of through transport through the middle of Derbyshire so you had MEMRAP meetings but hard to see them coming to anything as they are quite vague on specifics.

Yeah totally agreed and it happens all over the place really. Always going to have the problem and I'm not sure what the answer is.

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Mind speaking of some of the debate on here, I wish the Northern was scrapped and split into 3 so you'd have
Network Yorkshire
Network North East
Network North West (including Bee)

Whether you want to go one further and add a Bee Network into the mix then that's a further discussion. From there let the Local Mayors of each of the respective areas run their own local rail that might actually do what people want rather than what benefits Westminister's pockets the most. The thing is pretty much split into 3 anyway.

 

[stevieinselby]

Presumably as the rail service may bring tourists/daytrippers into the area from Lancashire and Greater Manchester benefitting local businesses.

To Settle, maybe.
Residents in Horton-in-Ribblesdale are dead set against tourists, daytrippers and visitors, and would happily build a wall round the village if they thought they could get away with it.

 

[yorksrob]

How would that work politically? York people elect councillors to York council. Selby and Tadcaster elect North Yorkshire. The Metro system is part of the West Yorkshire combined authority. So 'fitting in' would mean delegating transport to an authority with no political control, And I assume a precept for the combined authority.

Any operations will likely have a board as well as working groups and teams running the day to operations of a service such as public transport.

It's perfectly possible for outside authorities to have formal representation on such bodies.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned anything about improving access for rail users at Thirsk!