Contactless Prices on Thameslink

[SAPhil]

I've only recently started looking at single journey prices as my current working practices make a season ticket useless to me. I was amazed at the difference between a paper single from St Albans to London and using contactless - particularly at off-peak times! The contactless fare is even cheaper than the discounted railcard fare. Not that I'm complaining but it does seem surprising, any idea why?

Following on from this does anyone know whether the KeyGo Fare would be the same as contactless or not?

 

[mattdickinson]

I've only recently started looking at single journey prices as my current working practices make a season ticket useless to me. I was amazed at the difference between a paper single from St Albans to London and using contactless - particularly at off-peak times! The contactless fare is even cheaper than the discounted railcard fare. Not that I'm complaining but it does seem surprising, any idea why?

Following on from this does anyone know whether the KeyGo Fare would be the same as contactless or not?

The Keygo fares are calculated using the paper ticket prices, with railcard discounts when the railcard is registered to the account.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've only recently started looking at single journey prices as my current working practices make a season ticket useless to me. I was amazed at the difference between a paper single from St Albans to London and using contactless - particularly at off-peak times! The contactless fare is even cheaper than the discounted railcard fare. Not that I'm complaining but it does seem surprising, any idea why?

Following on from this does anyone know whether the KeyGo Fare would be the same as contactless or not?

AFAICT this is usually because the paper ticketing system doesnt include a correctly priced Offpeak single, and never did. It assumed if not paying the full price Anytime return most passengers would use either an Offpeak day return, or on longer journeys an Offpeak return.

 

[Haywain]

It's essentially because contactless uses single leg pricing, so that two contactless singles are equivalent (roughly) to a paper return.

 

[plugwash]

I've only recently started looking at single journey prices as my current working practices make a season ticket useless to me. I was amazed at the difference between a paper single from St Albans to London and using contactless - particularly at off-peak times! The contactless fare is even cheaper than the discounted railcard fare. Not that I'm complaining but it does seem surprising, any idea why?

Single tickets in the UK have traditionally been very expensive compared to returns and this has been especially true for off-peak fares. Sometimes the off-peak single is only 10p less than the return! Sometimes an off-peak single does not exist at all.

TFLs oyster/contactless system (in this particular case it's not currently possible to use Oyster) on the other hand has no concept of return fares, so if they priced the fares on it the same as the paper single tickets hardly anyone would use it. The system traditionally used zonal fares, but recent additions to the system have been priced at roughly half the corresponding paper return ticket.

In your case the fares are

Paper off peak day return - £16.60
Paper off peak single does not exist.
Contactless off peak - £8.30

Paper anytime return - £22.50
Paper anytime single - £13.20
Contactless peak - £11.20

Further complicating matters contactless has different peak rules from the paper ticket. The paper off peak day return forbids travel on "trains timed to depart after 04:29 which arrive at, or depart from; any London Terminal, Farringdon, or Kensington Olympia before 10:00" but it has no peak restrictions in the Evening. On TFL contactless the peak period for the outward journey is 0630 to 0930 and for the return joruney is from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900. I can't find any official documentation, but my understanding is that TFLs peak periods are based on touch-in time and there is a "grace period" such that the actual period where you are charged peak fares is shorter than the advertised period.

Putting it all together.

* If you are not returning the same day then you should use contactless.
* Otherwise if you have a railcard that is compatible with your times of travel you should use a paper day return ticket (peak or off peak as appropriate) with your railcard.
* Otherwise if your train into London departs after 04:29 and will arrive in london before 10:00 you should use contactless.
* Otherwise you should use a paper off peak day return ticket.

 

[SAPhil]

Thanks for all the replies - it sort of makes sense now! Once I found out what the contactless fares were and because I also have a railcard it means contactless in and discounted paper ticket back both in peak times worked out cheaper than the flexi-season I was using. The one that threw me was coming back later being cheaper on contactless, but now I understand!

 

[717001]

The off-peak carnet can also be a good option - depending on time of travel / frequency (but no railcard discount). Also TfL doesn't have "super off-peak", so weekend journeys are likely to be cheaper using conventional ticketing.

 

[johncrossley]

The Keygo fares are calculated using the paper ticket prices, with railcard discounts when the railcard is registered to the account.

I got charged the TfL fare with a railcard discount (£5.75) when travelling from Gatwick to St Pancras using KeyGo. I normally use contactless for this journey, breaking journey at East Croydon if I am not in a rush to save money, but because it was Sunday I thought it would be worth using KeyGo as I would be getting the Network Railcard discount over the cheaper weekend fare. So I was surprised to be charged the same as contactless but with a railcard discount, so cheaper than the railcard discounted paper ticket. In the account it was referred to as a 'Zonal Off-Peak Single'.

 

[Richardr]

Is there any difference between using a credit card contactless on these journeys against a KeyGo card?

 

[JHS]

The Keygo fares are calculated using the paper ticket prices, with railcard discounts when the railcard is registered to the account.

FYI - Keygo fares are calculated using both the contactless equivalent prices and the paper ticket prices. Whichever works out cheaper on the day is sold. So journeys made on KeyGo should always work out equivalent to or cheaper than the contactless fare.

Update - Should note, if you had to do journeys that can't be done on KeyGo e.g. on the underground, then contactless is probably the way to go.

 

[SAPhil]

FYI - Keygo fares are calculated using both the contactless equivalent prices and the paper ticket prices. Whichever works out cheaper on the day is sold. So journeys made on KeyGo should always work out equivalent to or cheaper than the contactless fare.

I shall try this tomorrow. If it works then I will have got rid of the possibility of pulling different credit cards out at the start and end of the journey!

 

[Paul Kelly]

FYI - Keygo fares are calculated using both the contactless equivalent prices and the paper ticket prices. Whichever works out cheaper on the day is sold. So journeys made on KeyGo should always work out equivalent to or cheaper than the contactless fare.

That's very interesting. Do you know if it has access to the genuine TfL fares database used for Oyster & Contactless, or does it uses the contactless fares that have been "translated" into the RDG fares database (i.e. Product Management System)? Or a third option - it could use the contactless fares from the TfL API?

 

[SAPhil]

I shall try this tomorrow. If it works then I will have got rid of the possibility of pulling different credit cards out at the start and end of the journey!

I was indeed charged the contactless price of £11.20 for travel in the morning peak while the return peak journey was charged at the network card discounted anytime single fare of £8.70.

Tonight I happen to be travelling back at off-peak times, so provided they use the contactless single price rather than the railcard price, I will be using KeyGo for all my weekday work journeys!

 

[JonathanH]

I was indeed charged the contactless price of £11.20 for travel in the morning peak while the return peak journey was charged at the network card discounted anytime single fare of £8.70.

Tonight I happen to be travelling back at off-peak times, so provided they use the contactless single price rather than the railcard price, I will be using KeyGo for all my weekday work journeys!

That seems somewhat counterintuitive. Why is a Network Railcard discount being applied under the £13 threshold? Seems like a mistake on their part to me or that the peak fare is being taken into account when assessing the overall spend as being more than £13.

 

[SAPhil]

My bad! I'm an old git, so I should have said senior railcard discount!

 

[johncrossley]

KeyGo seems to be a way of getting a Network Railcard discount on contactless fares. Obviously you miss out on potential TfL capping though.

 

[SAPhil]

KeyGo seems to be a way of getting a Network Railcard discount on contactless fares. Obviously you miss out on potential TfL capping though.

I don't think so, the railcard discount is based on the full single ticket price of £13.20. If I was travelling in the Oyster area then I would expect the discount to be applied to key go fares but St Albans is contactless but not oyster.

 

[JonathanH]

KeyGo seems to be a way of getting a Network Railcard discount on contactless fares. Obviously you miss out on potential TfL capping though.

Presumably only at the weekend (other than possibly for Contactless fares over £13) and on some of the routes there are cheaper weekend fares already.

 

[johncrossley]

I don't think so, the railcard discount is based on the full single ticket price of £13.20. If I was travelling in the Oyster area then I would expect the discount to be applied to key go fares but St Albans is contactless but not oyster.

See my post above. I got a third off the Oyster fare from Gatwick to St Pancras.

 

[SAPhil]

See my post above. I got a third off the Oyster fare from Gatwick to St Pancras.

Exactly. Oyster is valid so you can load a railcard on to it. So therefore if you have a railcard on Key Go you get the same price. Sadly, St Albans isn't valid for Oyster only Contactless so you cant add a discount to that.