Contactless Reading <-> London Journeys Cap + forgetting to tap in/out

[dasfvzcx]

I travel from Reading to London for work and leisure reasons a few times a week.

I have a couple of questions concerning journeys.
Concretely, I travelled yesterday:

Journey 1, charge £15.70
- 06:25 Entry Reading
- 07:02 Exit Paddington (National Rail)
- 07:04 Entry Paddington (Elizabeth Line)
- 07:19 Ext Moorgate

Journey 2, charge £13.70 ("all services daily cap")
- 19:00 Entry Liverpoool Street (London Underground) (should have been Moorgate but I couldn't find the place I exited in the morning! Almost missed my next train)
- 19:14 Exit Paddington (Elizabeth Line)
- 19:15 Entry Paddington (National Rail)
- 19:45 Exit Reading

However, a couple of questions came up because of that journey:
- Originally when I left at Reading, even after a couple of hours it said it had "completed my journey" automatically, even though I had tapped. Is this expected? The barrier was open
- I was expected to be charged 2 x £15.70, just under the Reading Off-Peak Travel Cap, however the second journey was cheaper due to capping. Why was that?

Not entirely related to the journey, but things I have encountered otherwise:
- From my understanding, my morning journey would not apply towards the Off-Peak Travel Cap, is that correct? (The main advantage of it applying is that I could travel back during the peak and the cap will reduce the cost significantly, almost same as off-peak travel)
- If one does not tap out at Reading (because gates are open and you forget), after having tapped in at Paddington, you'd be charged the maximum fare of £9.40 (does this change for off peak)?
- If one does not tap in/yellow reader at Paddington (this has happened to me, and a few times almost, when leaving from e.g. Platform 1) and you tap out at Reading you'll be charged a maximum fare of XXX (and what about off-peak)?

All the maximum fare stuff seems to be "up to" so I am finding it hard to navigate. Though I try my best (& my partner), in the rush to get to train, it can sometimes go wrong (and another time I ended up touching in twice as the train on Platform 1 left as I was tapping in, then had to go through gate. Had to contact TFL to get second fee removed, surprised the system didn't deal with that better).

I actually just found the maximum fares here:
- Zones 1-9 (including Paddington?) "up to" £9.40 peak/£6.40 off-peak
- Reading £27.60 peak, £12.00 off-peak

 

[mangyiscute]

- If one does not tap out at Reading (because gates are open and you forget), after having tapped in at Paddington, you'd be charged the maximum fare of £9.40 (does this change for off peak)?

I am unsure about most of the questions, but as this is something I have done a few times, I can confirm you would get charged £12 off peak (and I imagine £27.60 peak) for tapping in at Paddington mainline platforms and not tapping out at Reading - if it was £9.40, I imagine everyone would be not tapping!

Since I know that the fare is the same, I often don't tap because I just can't be bothered if I'm exiting the gates when theyre open (as they often are at the north entrance) - is this fine, or would TfL be angry if they "caught" me

 

[dasfvzcx]

I am unsure about most of the questions, but as this is something I have done a few times, I can confirm you would get charged £12 off peak (and I imagine £27.60 peak) for tapping in at Paddington mainline platforms and not tapping out at Reading - if it was £9.40, I imagine everyone would be not tapping!

Since I know that the fare is the same, I often don't tap because I just can't be bothered if I'm exiting the gates when theyre open (as they often are at the north entrance) - is this fine, or would TfL be angry if they "caught" me

At least it's not more! I might just do it then like you if nothing else once to see how it looks like in the app. I like to see all edge cases!

The online website says you can be charged a penalty fare or prosecuted:

If you don't touch in or out at the start and end of your journey, you may be charged a penalty fare or may be prosecuted.

But to me it seems practically that would be quite hard in this case for not tapping out (and accepting the maximum fare).

I am guessing the "not tapped in, then encounter ticket check"-ban does not apply to people not tapping out, because e.g. mangyiscute has not been hit by this. This was actually thing that worried me as well after reading about it.

 

[mangyiscute]

At least it's not more! I might just do it then like you if nothing else once to see how it looks like in the app. I like to see all edge cases!

The online website says you can be charged a penalty fare or prosecuted:

But to me it seems practically that would be quite hard in this case for not tapping out (and accepting the maximum fare).

I am guessing the "not tapped in, then encounter ticket check"-ban does not apply to people not tapping out, because e.g. mangyiscute has not been hit by this. This was actually thing that worried me as well after reading about it.

I always ensure to tap in because as you say, if you encounter a ticket inspection team on board (which has happened a couple times to me on elizabeth line trains) and you haven't tapped in then you would be in trouble.
I know, however, that GWR at least used to be unable to check your card if you say tapped in to take one of their fast services from London to Reading, but this was a couple of years ago so I don't know if this is the case.
My advice would be obviously always tap in, and if you forgot see if you can speak to someone or if not, get off at the next station and try to tap in there or something along those lines.
If you ever tap in at one platform at Paddington and then need to change platforms (as has happened to me before) I've found the person on the gateline will usually let you through if you explain this to them.

 

[Benjwri]

I often don't tap because I just can't be bothered if I'm exiting the gates when theyre open (as they often are at the north entrance) - is this fine, or would TfL be angry if they "caught" me

I don’t think TfL have the ability to even see if a card is tapped in still, however tapping on their revenue inspection device will charge you another penalty fare.

I also believe if you do this too much their system will automatically block your card and you won’t be able to use it to tap anymore.

 

[Tw99]

I always ensure to tap in because as you say, if you encounter a ticket inspection team on board (which has happened a couple times to me on elizabeth line trains) and you haven't tapped in then you would be in trouble.
I know, however, that GWR at least used to be unable to check your card if you say tapped in to take one of their fast services from London to Reading, but this was a couple of years ago so I don't know if this is the case.
My advice would be obviously always tap in, and if you forgot see if you can speak to someone or if not, get off at the next station and try to tap in there or something along those lines.
If you ever tap in at one platform at Paddington and then need to change platforms (as has happened to me before) I've found the person on the gateline will usually let you through if you explain this to them.

I've had my contactless card checked on a GWR fast service this year, so they can certainly do it now. I believe I checked afterwards and the check also shows up in the TFL journey history.

If you don't touch out at Reading, you'll get charged the maximum fare from Zone 1, which also isn't included in the cap calculation. This can still save money although it's strictly not allowed. I guess if you did this often enough, they might block your card.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've had my contactless card checked on a GWR fast service this year, so they can certainly do it now. I believe I checked afterwards and the check also shows up in the TFL journey history.

They cannot see whether you have touched in or not with contactless, only Oyster.

The back office system registers the check (as you point out) and will determine if a penalty should be charged based on the aggregated tap data for that card at the end of the day. Nothing happens in the moment your card is checked.

What they can see is if the card has been blocked for travel on the network as the devices used to perform inspections has this data loaded on to it regularly (I don't remember how often).

 

[Benjwri]

They cannot see whether you have touched in or not with contactless, only Oyster.

I think the poster was refering to is that GWR revenue protection has only recently recieved devices capable to sending taps to the TfL system, before they could not even take taps when people were using contactless.