Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

[BJames]

They also forget that a lot of the mask wearing in Asia is actually to protect against the horrendous levels of pollution, not viruses

A very good point, one which will be ignored by the mask activists and also one which will be ignored by the people desperately avoiding public transport. Lots of studies floating about saying how air pollution makes covid worse. We need to get people using public transport again - although I must say I rather enjoyed my quiet intercity journey the other day.

That's logic though. Logic will not be used. This is about control. Masks are here to stay.

This one made me laugh it's such a shame that logic is so hard to come by in politics these days.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Apparently at my work place for those that have returned from WFH (thankfully not me yet but i'm sure it will be soon), you have to use hand sanitizer when you enter the building and then go to the toilet to wash your hands for 20 seconds. Dumb.

To be honest that sounds sensible. It means you’re not touching anything with dirty hands while on the way to the toilets.

I read it as sanitising, then immediately washing the santiser off - by order of the company...?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

That does assume people don’t tire of it. The hardcore mask supporters may not, but the “do it to keep the peace” types certainly will over time. Or perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part!

That's my wishful thinking too. People began getting complacent with the "lockdown" restrictions soon enough, so maybe this'll be the same.

 

[bramling]

BBC is just regurgitating the ongoing doom-mongering from the scientific advisors.

The reality is that 150,000 extra deaths is a 25% rise on normal annual death rates. It is totally illogical to wreck the economy and place onerous restrictions on more than 66 million people for something that has such a low impact. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

No doubt there will be some screaming for a return to full and complete lockdown.

 

[kylemore]

I read it as sanitising, then immediately washing the santiser off - by order of the company...?

I'm surprised they didn't ask you to stick two pencils up your nose put your pants on your head and go "wibble" - that'll get rid of the wee coronavirusseses.

 

[Huntergreed]

No doubt there will be some screaming for a return to full and complete lockdown.

Indeed! If we listened to them, we’d be welding out front doors shut and not emerging until the sky turns purple!

 

[BJames]

This is entertaining.

UK economy rebounds more slowly than expected

The UK's economy grew 1.8% in May as the lockdown began to ease, less than economists had predicted.

www.bbc.co.uk

The UK's economy rebounded more slowly than expected in May, growing just 1.8% from the previous month, as the gradual easing of lockdown had a modest impact.

Manufacturing and house building showed signs of recovery in May as some firms saw staff return to work.

But the Office for National Statistics said the economy was "in the doldrums".

As a result of big contractions in previous months, the UK economy is now 24.5% smaller than it was in February, the ONS added.

continues...

I've snipped it a bit but the point I wanted to make was above. Anyone really, genuinely surprised that the economy is recovering so slowly? There's still a lot of restrictions in place, it's not like we've slipped back to normal!

Edit: relevance is because of the fact that a minority would want to go back into lockdown... we can't afford to!

 

[kylemore]

I see the "face coverings mandatory in Scotland" thread has been closed for further replies - that's a wee bit sinister moderators?

 

[kylemore]

As regards the £60 "fine" in Scotland - what happens if you don't pay it - anybody know?

 

[BJames]

TUI has issued guidance that you must bring enough face masks to change your mask every four hours on the flight...

I know they don't have a huge amount of long-distance travel but still.

Source: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/rules-tui-passengers-must-follow-18584441

 

[island]

As regards the £60 "fine" in Scotland - what happens if you don't pay it - anybody know?

Prosecution

 

[adc82140]

There are so many exclusions that don't require any official diagnosis though. I'm not suggesting they should just be used as an excuse, but if say you claimed that putting on a mask would cause you distress, what court could argue the opposite? Unenforceable, and just like the lockdown they've probably modeled it on 75-80% compliance.

 

[Huntergreed]

As regards the £60 "fine" in Scotland - what happens if you don't pay it - anybody know?

Same as any other fine, if you don’t pay, you go to court and face a higher fine or even prison.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I've given up on the Guardian. Its constant doom-mongering is ridiculous. So far austerity, the climate crisis and Brexit are meant to have killed us all, so here's coronavirus to finish the job.

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

Unfortunately, I must agree with you both.

Could, might, may.

No real attempt at reasoned analysis, deployment of expertise or balance. I wonder whether their reporters have actually read (and understood) any of the research behind the press releases which they simply regurgitate. I think I might as well get my information from TwitFace and Fred in Tesco's.

As for the numbers, perhaps they should also give us the lower estimate, and use their ahem 'professional expertise' to discuss the finer points of each and the lilklehood of each scenario actually occuring. Total failure to understand risk management. There is a risk - it must be eliminated.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

That does assume people don’t tire of it. The hardcore mask supporters may not, but the “do it to keep the peace” types certainly will over time. Or perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part!

A few million on the dole queue, with the attendant costs in terms of benefits, and losses in terms of tax revenue from that lost employment and lost discretionary spend into the wider economy should focus minds.

 

[mmh]

That does assume people don’t tire of it. The hardcore mask supporters may not, but the “do it to keep the peace” types certainly will over time. Or perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part!

I think, or perhaps it's hope, that's inevitable. My experience is that "social distancing" (how I loathe the expression, it's anti-social distancing) was given up on by almost everyone by around mid May, so perhaps two months is a psychological limit. The difference and problem of course being the visibility of masks and it not being as easy to dismiss a protester with a cheery "oops, sorry!" or a scornful "oh, whatever" as appropriate.

Before someone thinks that shows an awful attitude I should explain that for a time I would go along with the pavement dancers out of politeness - I'm not in the remotest bothered about passing nearby someone, but I had no desire to worry those who were fearful. There are limits to endurance though, and I'm afraid four months later the locktivists have exhausted goodwill. I'll treat any of these impositions with the contempt they deserve and the disobedience I'll get away with.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Same as any other fine, if you don’t pay, you go to court and face a higher fine or even prison.

Assuming the Crown Prosecution Service (or Scottish equivalent) determine it to be 'in the public interest' to pursue the case and determine that 'there is a reasonable chance of conviction'. The thing that killed the poll tax was the number of court cases clogging up the system and bringing bad publicity. The courts service has been cut substantially since then.

 

[Journeyman]

I suspect the police will go very easy on mask non-compliance, and you'll only get into big trouble if you fail the attitude test and give them hostility.

I wonder if anyone has called 999 to report unmasked people yet?

 

[kylemore]

I think, or perhaps it's hope, that's inevitable. My experience is that "social distancing" (how I loathe the expression, it's anti-social distancing) was given up on by almost everyone by around mid May, so perhaps two months is a psychological limit. The difference and problem of course being the visibility of masks and it not being as easy to dismiss a protester with a cheery "oops, sorry!" or a scornful "oh, whatever" as appropriate.

Before someone thinks that shows an awful attitude I should explain that for a time I would go along with the pavement dancers out of politeness - I'm not in the remotest bothered about passing nearby someone, but I had no desire to worry those who were fearful. There are limits to endurance though, and I'm afraid four months later the locktivists have exhausted goodwill. I'll treat any of these impositions with the contempt they deserve and the disobedience I'll get away with.

Exactly. If a law is stupid, hold it in contempt, subvert it whenever you can get away with it - that's my tactic!

 

[DB]

I suspect the police will go very easy on mask non-compliance, and you'll only get into big trouble if you fail the attitude test and give them hostility.

I wonder if anyone has called 999 to report unmasked people yet?

I wonder what the policy on enforcing it will be? is it acceptable for someone challenged to just say that one of the exemptions apply, or will they be expected to specify? I wouldn't consider the latter to be acceptable as nobody should have to give medical details to someone challenging them in public. I suspect that private security guards on large shops will probably be a lot worse than the police, too.

 

[adc82140]

I wonder if anyone has called 999 to report unmasked people yet?

I'd hope anyone doing that would be given the stern lecture about not wasting the resources of the 999 service

 

[Huntergreed]

I suspect the police will go very easy on mask non-compliance, and you'll only get into big trouble if you fail the attitude test and give them hostility.

I wonder if anyone has called 999 to report unmasked people yet?

Police on the door of my local on Friday morning (Scotland) and stopping and challenging anyone queueing without a mask. I'm not sure whether any fines were given or whether this was just to make people aware though.

 

[adc82140]

Police on the door of my local on Friday morning (Scotland) and stopping and challenging anyone queueing without a mask. I'm not sure whether any fines were given or whether this was just to make people aware though.

And I trust they let anyone with an exemption in without asking them to justify it.

 

[Huntergreed]

And I trust they let anyone with an exemption in without asking them to justify it.

I'm unsure, I know of one person who's told me they asked for a reason and/or proof, but I don't class this person as a 'reliable' source of information.

 

[adc82140]

I'm unsure, I know of one person who's told me they asked for a reason and/or proof, but I don't class this person as a 'reliable' source of information.

I'd say a police officer discretely asking for a reason is OK, but asking for proof isn't.

Anyone else asking for a reason is out of order.

 

[Scrotnig]

I'd say a police officer discretely asking for a reason is OK, but asking for proof isn't.

Anyone else asking for a reason is out of order.

I'd agree here. Whilst I am not mandated to do so, I will happily tell a police officer what my exemption is, on the understanding that they will then back off and leave me alone.

Shop staff asking will simply be told I have an exemption and I won't go into detail.

Members of the public asking would be ignored. Unfortunately that's the dangerous bit and is the main reason I won't be able to go in any shops at all from now on.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we please keep discussion on this thread to COVID precautions other than mask wearing. Posts about mask wearing should be made in the relevant mask wearing thread. Thanks.

 

[alex397]

I read it as sanitising, then immediately washing the santiser off - by order of the company...?

Washing hands with soap and water is generally more effective than hand sanitiser.

Exactly. If a law is stupid, hold it in contempt, subvert it whenever you can get away with it - that's my tactic!

Some people think paying for public transport is stupid, is it ok for them to subvert it where they can? Also, some think speed limits are stupid. What about them?

 

[DB]

Some people think paying for public transport is stupid, is it ok for them to subvert it where they can? Also, some think speed limits are stupid. What about them?

In both cases, there is actual provable evidence as to why this is not stupid (trains have to be paid for, and speed is a factor in a large number of accidents).

The same cannot be said with a lot of these Coronavirus precautions, where the evidence of any benefit is often tenuous, and way below the evience levels which would normally be required for draconian public restrictions. There is also no system in place to monitor their effectiveness, which is again something normally required for draconian restrictions.

 

[DB]

I'd say a police officer discretely asking for a reason is OK, but asking for proof isn't.

Anyone else asking for a reason is out of order.

Proof would be impossible in a lot of cases anyway. How can someone 'prove' they suffer from severe anxiety, for example? It shouldn't be necessary to have to get a doctor's note (the medical profession have better things to do), and in any case it may never have been formally diagnosed if the person involved doesn't think a doctor will be able to do anything, so hasn't bothered to discuss it with one.