Could a donated locomotive be sold?

[spookywestie]

Just something I've been thinking about recently which is completely hypothetical. Say Bulgaria wanted 87035 from Crewe Heritage Centre (they seem to want all our 86s/87s), would they not be able to sell it due to it being donated to them by Porterbrook?

 

[Murph]

Completely ignoring moral and ethical considerations, only answering in generic legal terms. It depends on the contract formed when ownership/control of the loco was passed. If full ownership was freely given without any conditions, they can do more or less anything they want with it (scrap, sell, turn it into a garden ornament, lease it to a TOC, etc). On the other hand, the donating company can put any conscionable restrictions into the transfer that they want to, which would be legally binding if made clear at or prior to the point of transfer.

Just my informal opinion, certainly not to be taken as formal legal advice.

 

[BestWestern]

There was a vaguely similar issue once before wasn't there, with one of the Royal 47s? EWS donated it to the national collection, and then got rather offended when the NRM sent it out on the mainline on a charter operated by one of the competition?

 

[The Ham]

Completely ignoring moral and ethical considerations, only answering in generic legal terms. It depends on the contract formed when ownership/control of the loco was passed. If full ownership was freely given without any conditions, they can do more or less anything they want with it (scrap, sell, turn it into a garden ornament, lease it to a TOC, etc). On the other hand, the donating company can put any conscionable restrictions into the transfer that they want to, which would be legally binding if made clear at or prior to the point of transfer.

Just my informal opinion, certainly not to be taken as formal legal advice.

Any general donation can be used by the recipient in any way that they see as reasonable (I expect that a charity would not get many donations if it were seen by the public that the money was being spent in a way that was seen as unethical or even unexpected), however if a donation is given for a specific purpose then that donation cannot be used for anything else. Even to the extent that if a donation was given to build a new building and that fund had £1 million in it and the charity needed to use £10 to make a loan payment be their cash flow was poor that month they couldn't do so. (Although I would hope that the trustees or directors would have been able to have a whip round on that case, but I am using extreme figures to show the point).

It would, as suggested above, very much depend on the nature of the donation and that would need checking out very carefully with proper professional advice (not just what some person said on the internet).

 

[jopsuk]

I'm a charity trustee. It's quite common, especially with grants, to have conditions on money received; however with such income smart accounting to ensure it can be shown that x amount was indeed spent on y project is normal and trivial. I can see how it would be harder with a physical object.

 

[kermit]

Surely if Bulgarian Railways want 87035, it would be simple to set up a lease arrangement with a contract stating it must be returned at the end of lease in same or better condition? Leasing fees could then be put in a fund to defray future maintenance costs.

Win / Win??

 

[Roast Veg]

deleted

 

[John Webb]

It is standard practice in museum circles that on donating an item, the donor and the recipient complete a form in which it is spelt out whether it is a simple donation and it's up to the recipient to decide what can be done with it; a long-term loan for a specified number of years, or a short-term loan for a specific purpose, such as an exhibition. The form also covers disposal of the item if the recipient organisation packs up, eg the item is returned to the donor or otherwise disposed of.

 

[43096]

Surely if Bulgarian Railways want 87035, it would be simple to set up a lease arrangement with a contract stating it must be returned at the end of lease in same or better condition? Leasing fees could then be put in a fund to defray future maintenance costs.

Win / Win??

Not necessarily. The original donor / seller may have included a clause in the contract precluding hire out, or requiring the new owner to seek permission before doing so.